Russia sentences Meta's communications director to six years in prison over "terrorism" charges

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midian182

midian182

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What just happened? Andy Stone, Meta's communications director, has been sentenced in absentia to six years of imprisonment by a Russian court for "publicly defending terrorism." Stone is accused of posting a Twitter/X comment in March 2022, advocating aggressive, hostile, and violent actions against "Russian servicemen participating in the special military operation," which is what Russia calls its invasion of Ukraine.

The "terrorism" charges could stem from Stone posting Meta's statement on the 2022 policy that temporarily allowed forms of political expression to be posted on its social media sites that would normally violate the company's terms of service, such as "death to the Russian invaders." Stone posted the statement on Twitter/X on March 10, adding that Meta still wouldn't allow calls for violence against Russian civilians.

Facebook and Instagram, already banned in Russia following the invasion of Ukraine, were found guilty of "extremist activity" by a Russian court over the policy change, and Stone was placed on a wanted list. Russian government-run news agency TASS writes that Stone's comment "contained public calls to commit deadly terrorist attacks against the servicemen."

TASS states that Stone's offending post was made on March 11, 2022, so they could be referring instead to Stone reposting Meta global affairs president Nick Clegg's explanation of the policy change. He said the policy would only be applied to users inside Ukraine.

Stone faced 5 – 7 years for a crime that falls under an article covering public incitement to commit terrorist acts, public justification of terrorism, or propaganda of terrorism. The prosecution, which had asked for seven years, dropped the charges of promotion and public calls for terrorism against Stone over "confusion in the wording of the indictment."

Moscow's Second Western Military Garrison Court sentenced Stone to six years in a high-security prison.

With no extradition treaty existing between the US and Russia, Stone should be safe as long as he stays away from the country, which is a pretty safe bet. Interfax cited Stone's lawyer, Valentina Filippenkova, as saying that the sentence would be appealed.

In August last year, Dmitry Glukhovsky, the Russian science fiction writer who penned the Metro series and collaborated with 4A Games on the video game versions, was sentenced in absentia to eight years in prison for deliberately spreading false information about Russia's military.

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Russia sentences Meta's communications director to six years in prison over "terrorism" charges

 
Love it when people have those gnarly suggestions online but would never act that way outside of the internet. Put some boots on if you feel so strong about it.
 
midian182 said:
What just happened? Andy Stone, Meta's communications director, has been sentenced in absentia to six years of imprisonment by a Russian court for "publicly defending terrorism." Stone is accused of posting a Twitter/X comment in March 2022, advocating aggressive, hostile, and violent actions against "Russian servicemen participating in the special military operation," which is what Russia calls its invasion of Ukraine.

The "terrorism" charges could stem from Stone posting Meta's statement on the 2022 policy that temporarily allowed forms of political expression to be posted on its social media sites that would normally violate the company's terms of service, such as "death to the Russian invaders." Stone posted the statement on Twitter/X on March 10, adding that Meta still wouldn't allow calls for violence against Russian civilians.

Facebook and Instagram, already banned in Russia following the invasion of Ukraine, were found guilty of "extremist activity" by a Russian court over the policy change, and Stone was placed on a wanted list. Russian government-run news agency TASS writes that Stone's comment "contained public calls to commit deadly terrorist attacks against the servicemen."

TASS states that Stone's offending post was made on March 11, 2022, so they could be referring instead to Stone reposting Meta global affairs president Nick Clegg's explanation of the policy change. He said the policy would only be applied to users inside Ukraine.

Stone faced 5 – 7 years for a crime that falls under an article covering public incitement to commit terrorist acts, public justification of terrorism, or propaganda of terrorism. The prosecution, which had asked for seven years, dropped the charges of promotion and public calls for terrorism against Stone over "confusion in the wording of the indictment."

Moscow's Second Western Military Garrison Court sentenced Stone to six years in a high-security prison.

With no extradition treaty existing between the US and Russia, Stone should be safe as long as he stays away from the country, which is a pretty safe bet. Interfax cited Stone's lawyer, Valentina Filippenkova, as saying that the sentence would be appealed.

In August last year, Dmitry Glukhovsky, the Russian science fiction writer who penned the Metro series and collaborated with 4A Games on the video game versions, was sentenced in absentia to eight years in prison for deliberately spreading false information about Russia's military.

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Russia sentences Meta's communications director to six years in prison over "terrorism" charges

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This situation is crazy! It's important to allow people to defend themselves, and social media is a big part of that these days. They should definitely appeal this.
 
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*******s.

I wonder what would have happened if this person was from a country with an extradition treaty with Russia though.
 
Wow .... can't wait for Putin to be gone to see what the new one brings to the table .....
 
Uncle Al said:
Wow .... can't wait for Putin to be gone to see what the new one brings to the table .....
Click to expand...
Probably nothing good, this nation had longer and as deeper brainwashing process than north korea. Insanity is kinda required on high positions, and preferably ability to survive all the open windows.
 
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Uncle Al said:
Wow .... can't wait for Putin to be gone to see what the new one brings to the table .....
Click to expand...
No thanks! There are much worse things than corrupt leaders, like corrupt idi0ts in power. At least he is a very smart corrupt leader.
 
VitalyT said:
No thanks! There are much worse things than corrupt leaders, like corrupt idi0ts in power. At least he is a very smart corrupt leader.
Click to expand...

- Certainly doesn't seem that way.

Invades Ukraine because its getting cozy with NATO.

Inadvertently increases NATO military spend, gets two additional countries (including one with a 1000 mile border with Russia) to join NATO, gets substantial portion of Black Sea fleet damaged or sunk by a country without a Navy, damages Russian weapons export industry being unable to fullfill weapons export orders as well as demoing weaknesses of Russian platforms, and has his three day miliary operation to decapitate the Ukranian government turn into a 2 year slog with tens of thousands dead or wounded.

Sounds like the mother of all morons actually.
 
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GodisanAtheist said:
Inadvertently increases NATO military spend, gets two additional countries [to] join NATO...
Click to expand...
Finland aside, it's rather clear that Sweden's ascension is a net loss for NATO. The Swedes wouldn't even fight the Nazis in WW2; they'll happily accept NATO funds to defend them forever, but the idea of Sweden sending even one soldier to fight outside their own borders is laughable. Even a nation like Germany typically sends only "observers with helmets" on NATO missions, while the US and the UK perform 99.5% of all combat missions.

GodisanAtheist said:
... his three day miliary operation to decapitate the Ukranian government turn into a 2 year slog....
Click to expand...
The only person who stated Russia intended a "three day mission" was US General Milley, the same man who predicted the Taliban would take "decades" to conquer Afghanistan, when they actually accomplished it in 10 days.

And while you reflect the media's spin on the war, the reality is that we've given Ukraine double Russia's annual defense budget in our most advanced weapon systems, along with a priceless amount of logistics support, real-time satellite and drone intel, and hundreds of NATO military "observers" in-country providing training and weapons system maintenance. Ukraine now has the world's largest defense budget, save only the US and China -- and still Russia has managed to accomplish all its military objectives: control of Donetsk, Luhansk, and the land bridge to Crimea. And even the US top brass is starting to acknowledge that the conflict has only strengthened the Russian military:

Apr 27, 2023 (CNN) "The Russian ground force [is] bigger today than it was at the beginning of the conflict,” Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the commander of US European Command, told the House Armed Services Committee...

...The Air Force has lost very little, they’ve lost 80 planes. They have another 1,000 fighters and fighter bombers,” he said. “The Navy has lost one ship...."
 
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Endymio said:
Finland aside, it's rather clear that Sweden's ascension is a net loss for NATO. The Swedes wouldn't even fight the Nazis in WW2; they'll happily accept NATO funds to defend them forever, but the idea of Sweden sending even one soldier to fight outside their own borders is laughable. Even a nation like Germany typically sends only "observers with helmets" on NATO missions, while the US and the UK perform 99.5% of all combat missions.


The only person who stated Russia intended a "three day mission" was US General Milley, the same man who predicted the Taliban would take "decades" to conquer Afghanistan, when they actually accomplished it in 10 days.

And while you reflect the media's spin on the war, the reality is that we've given Ukraine double Russia's annual defense budget in our most advanced weapon systems, along with a priceless amount of logistics support, real-time satellite and drone intel, and hundreds of NATO military "observers" in-country providing training and weapons system maintenance. Ukraine now has the world's largest defense budget, save only the US and China -- and still Russia has managed to accomplish all its military objectives: control of Donetsk, Luhansk, and the land bridge to Crimea. And even the US top brass is starting to acknowledge that the conflict has only strengthened the Russian military:

Apr 27, 2023 (CNN) "The Russian ground force [is] bigger today than it was at the beginning of the conflict,” Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the commander of US European Command, told the House Armed Services Committee...

...The Air Force has lost very little, they’ve lost 80 planes. They have another 1,000 fighters and fighter bombers,” he said. “The Navy has lost one ship...."
Click to expand...

Ok One point at a time:

- I wouldn't so lightly put Finland aside, they've caused massive issues for the Russians previously and are a huge addition to NATO. Given NATO is a defensive pact, whether or not Sweden sends soldiers elsewhere is sort of moot. Being sandwiched between Norway and Finland, it can potentially make maneuvering and logistics simpler for NATO as well as provide additional ground for military installations.

- Yes, I am sure Russia fully intended for this war to go on for 2 years, master plan. They were unable to capture Kiev, kill Zelensky, and were forced to give up virtually all of their territorial gains west of the Dnipero. 50,000 Russians dead for a sliver of heavily mined and bombed out wasteland.

www.aljazeera.com

More than 50,000 Russians killed in Ukrainian ‘meat grinder’: Report

The rate of casualties accelerated last year as inexperienced troops arrived on the front lines.
www.aljazeera.com www.aljazeera.com

I have no doubt Russia has deep reserves of men and material (albeit of questionable quality), and I have no doubt some amount of talk surrounding the "might" of the Russian army is to keep up US Defense budgets.

Russian material losses are staggering. Imagine if the US had these kinds of losses in Iraq or Afghanistan, we'd think they had alien weapons or something. 3000 tanks destroyed, 1300 AFVs destroyed, 3900 IFVs destroyed, 400 APCs destroyed, 109 aircraft destroyed...


Russia is essentially going to meatwave this thing and so long as we keep tossing fractions of our defense budget to Ukraine, Russia will break before Ukraine does.
 
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Endymio said:
Finland aside, it's rather clear that Sweden's ascension is a net loss for NATO. The Swedes wouldn't even fight the Nazis in WW2; they'll happily accept NATO funds to defend them forever, but the idea of Sweden sending even one soldier to fight outside their own borders is laughable. Even a nation like Germany typically sends only "observers with helmets" on NATO missions, while the US and the UK perform 99.5% of all combat missions.


The only person who stated Russia intended a "three day mission" was US General Milley, the same man who predicted the Taliban would take "decades" to conquer Afghanistan, when they actually accomplished it in 10 days.

And while you reflect the media's spin on the war, the reality is that we've given Ukraine double Russia's annual defense budget in our most advanced weapon systems, along with a priceless amount of logistics support, real-time satellite and drone intel, and hundreds of NATO military "observers" in-country providing training and weapons system maintenance. Ukraine now has the world's largest defense budget, save only the US and China -- and still Russia has managed to accomplish all its military objectives: control of Donetsk, Luhansk, and the land bridge to Crimea. And even the US top brass is starting to acknowledge that the conflict has only strengthened the Russian military:

Apr 27, 2023 (CNN) "The Russian ground force [is] bigger today than it was at the beginning of the conflict,” Gen. Christopher Cavoli, the commander of US European Command, told the House Armed Services Committee...

...The Air Force has lost very little, they’ve lost 80 planes. They have another 1,000 fighters and fighter bombers,” he said. “The Navy has lost one ship...."
Click to expand...

Blah blah blah, so much winning. What the F is it all for?

We can rely on you to dress stupidity and evil up as winning

Ask yourself this one thing. Was Putain's decision the best way to achieve a better out come for the people of Rusland?

Don't give me BS about denazifying, or worrying about Russians in Ukraine. Like sending young men to meat grinder day after day after day after day. Buying 500 metres of land with 5000 dead another 15000 broken for life

So much blah blah , so much winning.
The Estonians, Latvians , Finnish are so much richer and better off out of Russian control

Russians in the east of Ukraine are just being really send to the meat grinder, having their food, livestock stolen , women raped, Still don't get full Russian passports - so much winning.

Russians so so wonderful they can live stoically , they can eat their dead endlessly, the can suffer forever for their Czar with his Palaces and putas. This is something to shout about?
 
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nnguy2 said:
Russian apologist/sympathizer showed up right on time!
Click to expand...
I wonder if real people, not bots, could still
find excuses for Russia if they were brought to Bucha to see the bodies
of adult and children raped and then brutally killed.
Like I get it when people say they do not want USA to be involved in any war oversee.
Everybody has a right be to have an opinion. But why not ask what is it that Russia wants? What is this nation has been doing after USSR fell apart?
War and war crimes in Chechnya, same in Georgia 2008, Donbas 2014, and finally 2022.
And just to show what Putin and his top people think about war crimes, he personally awarded soldiers
confirmed to be those who raped and killed hundreds of innocent people in Bucha. They are ok with doing this.
And if they all, every one of their people who decided to take a gun, are not stopped they will continue to kill.
People who say we do not need war need to have at least some ability of analyze these people and what will come next. He never stopped saying USSR was broken from the outside, that now independent countries around Russia took territories that are Russia's.
Not stopping Russia and Putin now guarantees war involving more and more countries. Why is it people not worried about conflict growing? Hitler was not stopped for long enough and the second world war began.
Anyone who wants peace needs to be the first one to vote for military aid for Ukraine.
 
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Putin the legend... Bigtech needs to be punished for lies, blocking truth, spying on people, they should start with all the 2016 lies and jail them for 20yrs in Gulag
 
GodisanAtheist said:
- I wouldn't so lightly put Finland aside
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Sure; you are correct. That's why I specifically excluded Finland from my remarks on Sweden.

GodisanAtheist said:
Given NATO is a defensive pact, whether or not Sweden sends soldiers elsewhere is sort of moot.
Click to expand...
Eh? In the 75 years NATO has been around, it's never once fought in a member nation -- but it has conducted many dozens of combat missions on foreign soil. Including a large number of invasions of sovereign nations who never attacked a NATO member.

GodisanAtheist said:
50,000 Russians dead for a sliver of heavily mined and bombed out wasteland.
Click to expand...
You're starting from a false pretense, so reach a false conclusion. Russia's demands before the war were the same as those during the failed 2022 Peace Talks: no NATO bases in Ukraine. They've achieved that goal. The land bridge to Crimea -- in response to Kiev's decision to cut off the entire freshwater supply to the civilians there -- was a secondary goal, also achieved.

And Ukrainian casualties are nearing 500,000. Kiev banned every man-jack in the country from leaving Day 1 of the war, and many draft-age men have died trying flee the country (swimming a river to Poland or Romania is one of the few options). Just last week, Ukraine announced it was suspending all consular services for Ukrainian men abroad, which means once their passports expire, they'll be forced to return to fight.

GodisanAtheist said:
Russian material losses are staggering. Imagine if the US had these kinds of losses in Iraq or Afghanistan, we'd think they had alien weapons or something. 3000 tanks destroyed.
Click to expand...
And yet they gain ground every day. As for "staggering losses", the quote from the US general I posted above disagrees with you. Other than tanks, their losses are minimal ... and this war has shown how useless tanks are in modern combat against a well-armed adversary. Russia is destroying the $10M M1 Abrams tanks we're sending with cheap $500 drones.
nnguy2 said:
Russian apologist/sympathizer showed up right on time!
Click to expand...
You seem triggered by facts. Why is that?
 
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toooooot said:
I wonder if real people, not bots, could still
find excuses for Russia if they were brought to Bucha to see the bodies
Click to expand...
Spare the false tears. Thousands of women and children were being killed in Donbass for the last decade by Kiev shelling villages of ethnic Russian Jews in Donbass, and by their allowing -- then actually funding -- ultranationalist groups seeking "racial purity" for Ukraine. The UN, the EU, and even the US Congress condemned the most notorious of these groups, the Azov Brigade for these

Nor did I see you crying when the US killed up to 600,000 civilians in Iraq, carpet-bombing cities like Mosul while looking for WMD that didn't exist. Why is that?

toooooot said:
But why not ask what is it that Russia wants?
Click to expand...
There's no need to "ask". I realize you'd never even heard of Donbass or the Ukrainian civil war until a couple years ago, but Russia made its position clear long before the invasion: no NATO bases in Ukraine. It outlined that in a proposal sent to NATO months before the war and publicly and spent a full year calling for talks on the issue. The Biden Administration said it wasn't negotiable, and when they sent Kamala Harris to the Munich Security Conference to repeat this to the world, Russia invaded the following week.

Now you can argue with merit that Russia has no say over Ukraine's military decisions, but the US has enforced its own demands on peaceful sovereign nations countless times, everywhere from its invasion of Serbia and Iraq, to Panama, Grenada, and even threatened nuclear war to keep Soviet weapons out of Cuba.
 
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Endymio said:
Sure; you are correct. That's why I specifically excluded Finland from my remarks on Sweden.


Eh? In the 75 years NATO has been around, it's never once fought in a member nation -- but it has conducted many dozens of combat missions on foreign soil. Including a large number of invasions of sovereign nations who never attacked a NATO member.


You're starting from a false pretense, so reach a false conclusion. Russia's demands before the war were the same as those during the failed 2022 Peace Talks: no NATO bases in Ukraine. They've achieved that goal. The land bridge to Crimea -- in response to Kiev's decision to cut off the entire freshwater supply to the civilians there -- was a secondary goal, also achieved.

And Ukrainian casualties are nearing 500,000. Kiev banned every man-jack in the country from leaving Day 1 of the war, and many draft-age men have died trying flee the country (swimming a river to Poland or Romania is one of the few options). Just last week, Ukraine announced it was suspending all consular services for Ukrainian men abroad, which means once their passports expire, they'll be forced to return to fight.


And yet they gain ground every day. As for "staggering losses", the quote from the US general I posted above disagrees with you. Other than tanks, their losses are minimal ... and this war has shown how useless tanks are in modern combat against a well-armed adversary. Russia is destroying the $10M M1 Abrams tanks we're sending with cheap $500 drones.

You seem triggered by facts. Why is that?
Click to expand...

One Point at a time:

- Re: Finland - Then surely Putin screwed up here

- NATO has never fought a battle on NATO soil: Then I guess NATO works, considering it was formed as a response to World War 2 to prevent European powers going to war with each other. NATO has never initiated a conflict, however it has intervened in ongoing or existing conflicts in it's backyard, which is only prudent.

- Russian Demands: So there were no NATO bases in Ukraine, Russia invades and suffers incredible losses (and inflicts an astounding amount of pain and misery on Ukrainians) so there are still no NATO bases in Ukraine. Truly, the masters of chess. Given Russia has achieved all of it's goals, it would be high time they went home, no?

- Ukrainian Casualties at 500,000: UKR Casualties are certainly higher than the ~30K or so Zelensky says, much more so if you include the civilians Russia has killed, but half a million is just ridiculous. I'd ask that you source that number from anyone other than Pravda Means Truth. Does a country with a population of 45 million need to institute a draft when invaded by a country of 120 million, especially when Republicans in the US congress drag their feet with aid? Basic math and common sense says yes.

- Russian Losses are mind blowing by just about any measure. No military would willingly accept these kinds of losses. They're clearly bad enough that Russians are not delivering on their equipment promises to India, which is also not planned.

I have to say, I do appreciate you Endymio. We need contravening voices from time to time to lead us to the truth, and you've really helped solidify my stance on Russia and Ukraine, and hopefully have helped a lot of folks reading see the light as well.
 
GodisanAtheist said:
NATO has never initiated a conflict ... it has intervened in ongoing or existing conflicts in it's backyard, which is only prudent.
Click to expand...
You mean, besides Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Serbia, and a few other places, some of which are nowhere near "its own backyard". In some cases like Afghanistan you can invoke sophistries to claim the government attacked the US first, but in others like Serbia there is no such fig leaf. The UN refused to authorize action in Kosovo; NATO ignored that and invaded anyway. And, instead of "preserving European stability", all their invasion did was change the situation from Serbs repressing Albanians to Albanians even more brutally repressing Serbs. It's still happening today.

As for "preserving European stability", the US push to shoe-horn Ukraine into NATO has now brought the world closer to global thermonuclear war than at any point in history, the Cold War years included. So much for that.

And I note that, if you believe a foreign power or organization has the right to "intervene in existing conflicts", then you just gave Russia authority to intervene in the decade-long Ukraine civil war. Especially after Zelensky broke his campaign promises, abrogated the previously agreed-upon Minsk II Accords, and massed troops for a major surge in the conflict.

As for the "mind-blowing" Russia losses, I remind you that the top US brass is now openly admitting that the Russian military is stronger today than before the war began .. and Russia has still not used its heaviest weapons, -- carpet bombing of cities with its heavy bomber fleet, any ship from its nuclear-powered navy, nor its vast array of NBC weapons, which includes more nuclear weapons than all the rest of the world combined. Biden thought Russia was bluffing when it stated that it would go to war rather than have Ukraine join NATO. And its quite clear Russia is equally serious about its threat to escalate further, should the US continue to up the ante.

As for Russia "breaking", their GDP grew faster last year than did the US economy, and Ukranian drone attacks and car bombings in civilians inside Russia are only strengthening support for the war. If NATO puts boots on the ground in Ukraine, it might mean the Russian elite waffle and depose Putin ... or it might mean global Armageddon. Take your pick.
 
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Endymio said:
You mean, besides Afghanistan, Libya, Somalia, Serbia, and a few other places, some of which are nowhere near "its own backyard". In some cases like Afghanistan you can invoke sophistries to claim the government attacked the US first, but in others like Serbia there is no such fig leaf. The UN refused to authorize action in Kosovo; NATO ignored that and invaded anyway. And, instead of "preserving European stability", all their invasion did was change the situation from Serbs repressing Albanians to Albanians even more brutally repressing Serbs. It's still happening today.

As for "preserving European stability", the US push to shoe-horn Ukraine into NATO has now brought the world closer to global thermonuclear war than at any point in history, the Cold War years included. So much for that.

And I note that, if you believe a foreign power or organization has the right to "intervene in existing conflicts", then you just gave Russia authority to intervene in the decade-long Ukraine civil war. Especially after Zelensky broke his campaign promises, abrogated the previously agreed-upon Minsk II Accords, and massed troops for a major surge in the conflict.

As for the "mind-blowing" Russia losses, I remind you that the top US brass is now openly admitting that the Russian military is stronger today than before the war began .. and Russia has still not used its heaviest weapons, -- carpet bombing of cities with its heavy bomber fleet, any ship from its nuclear-powered navy, nor its vast array of NBC weapons, which includes more nuclear weapons than all the rest of the world combined. Biden thought Russia was bluffing when it stated that it would go to war rather than have Ukraine join NATO. And its quite clear Russia is equally serious about its threat to escalate further, should the US continue to up the ante.

As for Russia "breaking", their GDP grew faster last year than did the US economy, and Ukranian drone attacks and car bombings in civilians inside Russia are only strengthening support for the war. If NATO puts boots on the ground in Ukraine, it might mean the Russian elite waffle and depose Putin ... or it might mean global Armageddon. Take your pick.
Click to expand...

I really do appreciate you.

- Libya is definitely in NATO's back yard, as is Serbia. You're going to have to source NATO's involvement in Somalia, I know the US/CIA is definitely involved there. You invoked the sophistries of Afghanistan so no need for me to do so.

- Once again, you remove all agency from Russia. Like a poor puppet on a string it is simply a bit player in the grander actions of what NATO does or does not do. NATO began courting Ukraine and poor hapless Russia was carried on the winds of fate to militarily intervene. Now it is NATO's fault for Russia's threats of nuclear war, poor hysterical Russia, forced to say such things by big bad NATO.

- I love that acknowledging the Russian annexation of Crimea anathema here. I would like to hear your justification for Russia's outright taking land. Say what you will about NATO, it has not waged wars of conquest or annexed anything. The "Ukrainian Civil War" (that is rich) was kicked off by the Russian annexation of Crimea and subsequently by Russian citizens within Donbas revolting with Russia's backing. Nothing like starting a conflict to provide yourself a casus belli...

- With regard to Russia's losses, I would like to continuously remind you that Russia cannot fulfill its contractual obligations to one of its biggest trading partners and oil purchasing bailout buddies India. That's a bad look no matter how you try to spin it. US Generals are going to say whatever gets them the cheddar from congress. Russia not being able to provide arms to India that India has contracted and paid for while buying their black market oil speaks the real truth.

- We had a nice run, maybe this was humanity's inevitable end. We won't make it passed the great filter after all, and return to shadows and dust. All the Neville Chamberlin's of the world can have "peace in our time" under the shade of a mushroom cloud.
 
GodisanAtheist said:
- Ukrainian Casualties at 500,000: UKR Casualties are certainly higher than the ~30K or so Zelensky says, much more so if you include the civilians Russia has killed, but half a million is just ridiculous. I'd ask that you source that number from anyone other than Pravda Means Truth.
Click to expand...
New York Times work for you?

"Troop Deaths and Injuries in Ukraine War Near 500,000, U.S. Officials Say"

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/18/us/politics/ukraine-russia-war-casualties.html

This pegs Ukraine's losses at just over 200K ...but readily admits that's based on Kiev's own reporting. And Kiev bans all western reporters from the battlefield. Given their record of honesty in war reporting is even worse than Moscows, I'd say the figure is substantially higher.

Now it is NATO's fault for Russia's threats of nuclear war, poor hysterical Russia
Click to expand...
You misunderstand my intent. I'm merely trying to show you that no amount finger-pointing will change the realities here. Russia's military is stronger today than before the war began, and it -will- defend Crimea with all means at its disposal, including nuclear weapons. Meanwhile, we have Zelensky claiming the war won't end until he parks tanks in Red Square, and -- just over the last week -- we learn the US is planning to increase its "military advisors" in Ukraine by a substantial amount. Do you see an off ramp here for either side?
 
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