StarCraft 2 official discussion thread

[Arris]

Oh, by the way. They have evolved the demo version of SC2 into a "Starter edition" when you can play a limited bit of the game as the Terran race. Might be worth trying out before you buy

 

[abe10tiger]

Oh, by the way. They have evolved the demo version of SC2 into a "Starter edition" when you can play a limited bit of the game as the Terran race. Might be worth trying out before you buy

Right-o! Thanks for the tip, I'll be sure to check it out.

 

[vChRiSv]

You should definitely get it. Great game, well worth the price! I can't wait for the expansion to come out, I don't remember if they set a release date for it yet.

 

[abe10tiger]

You should definitely get it. Great game, well worth the price! I can't wait for the expansion to come out, I don't remember if they set a release date for it yet.

Ow I'm definitely going to get it as soon as I get the money.

 

[SNGX1275]

It's more the going to each queen and larvae injecting each hive. I guess at least you don't have other production buildings to group up for macro production (barracks, factory, starport etc. etc.) so guess it balances out. I'm just still more used to building supply depot/pylon for more supply than having to queue up an overlord and remember to send it off to oversee an area. I guess my problem is that I don't group my hives and just produce from all at the same time like I do with other races. It's just a bit alien to me

I don't group hives, I build them close enough together that I can control click on a larvae and select them all. Of course I set rally points for each hive.

I suppose using queens is the way to go, but I find them cumbersome to use and so far I've been doing decent without them. Perhaps as I get better I'll see how critical they are..?

 

[vChRiSv]

I suppose using queens is the way to go, but I find them cumbersome to use and so far I've been doing decent without them. Perhaps as I get better I'll see how critical they are..?

I'd suggest you learn to use Queens ASAP. They are like the most important unit for Zerg. Need to make sure you constantly inject larva to each hatchery and it's useful to spread creep around the map too.

 

[SNGX1275]

But a queen costs 150 and needs attention to help the hatcheries. Meanwhile, for 300 I can build another hatchery, get +2 on units, and 3 additional larvae. Queens don't make economical sense to me right now, and its an additional unit I need to pay attention to.

 

[Arris]

But a queen costs 150 and needs attention to help the hatcheries. Meanwhile, for 300 I can build another hatchery, get +2 on units, and 3 additional larvae. Queens don't make economical sense to me right now, and its an additional unit I need to pay attention to.

Queens spread creep that give most units a speed movement bonus and vision of the area the creep covers, so very useful. You put down one creep tumor and then spawn more from that tumor. Group hives, then hit your hive group key and press S to select larvae and then the hotkey for the unit you want to build a mass of and it will queue them at whatever hive has larvae ready to use. Something I was told recently about queens, you can select and hit the key for larvae inject and click on the mini map and they will inject in the nearest hive instead of having to go to the location and manually click on the hive. Not sure if this works in groups but think it makes sense to work in that fashion. Makes them a little less cumbersome. Plus early in the game they are one of the few anti air units zerg gets, if you can use those early game it saves getting spore crawlers and the money saves might win you the game later on!

An additional hive in your main base can be a very useful tool, even more so if you also have a queen there to inject larvae into the main hive and the additional one, although it isn't ideal in every fight. Often it is better to build that hive at another place for mining and gas.

 

[vChRiSv]

Larva inject is the most important part, 150 minerals for being able to create extra larva constantly is worth it (I think it makes like... 4 extra ones). And that lets you build more drones quickly so you can have a stronger economy, or build quick units to attack/defend. It's an investment that pays off quickly.

 

[SNGX1275]

Its 4 larvae vs 3 larvae. I usually have 2 to 3 hives in my main base before expanding, and 4-8 in my main base before the game is over. I really don't have production issues. By the time an enemy can get air, I can have hydras or air, they require the same tech leveling. Spending 150 on a queen can net me 3 drones, there is a long time period between making a queen, the spawning of the queen, and injecting larvae, and then getting 4 drones. Meanwhile, after that first injection, she can't inject again for a while because her energy is too low. So there is a long period of time where I have 3 drones getting me mins and or morphing into structures where if I built a queen I'd just be sitting there, several minutes, before I see any benefit.

Having said all that, next time I play I'll try to extensively use queens and see.

 

[vChRiSv]

I usually have 2 to 3 hives in my main base before expanding, and 4-8 in my main base before the game is over. I really don't have production issues.

This sounds like the old way of playing Zerg, back in SC1. Nowadays you never need more than 1 hive in your main. Your 2nd hive should be your first expo, and Zerg players tend to grab that ASAP. Zerg is all about macro, so you just grab as many expansions as possible.

Meanwhile, after that first injection, she can't inject again for a while because her energy is too low. So there is a long period of time where I have 3 drones getting me mins and or morphing into structures where if I built a queen I'd just be sitting there, several minutes, before I see any benefit.

You're supposed to use 1 Queen per hive. So once you get Queen, she injects the Hive and by the time that injection has completed... she will have enough energy for a second. She actually recovers energy quicker than the injection time (as I recall).

Yeah, definitely try this out yourself. Me saying this much only goes so far, lol. :haha: Might want to try watching some pro Zerg players too, IdrA is a great Zerg player to watch.

 

[SNGX1275]

Ok, I played 3 games fully committing myself to using queens. I'll admit they are more useful than I thought. I'm not 100% sold that its better than having 6 or so hatcheries per base for churning out mass quantities of units, but then again, when you are running 6+ hatcheries and making units as fast as you can you rarely have enough minerals to sustain that for long.

I found them useful for when I was low on minerals and wasn't building anything, I could at least be making more larvae for "free", but on the other hand, I may be better served not sitting idly and making more drones from the available larvae.

At the very least, it makes for a more elegant looking base.

 

[vChRiSv]

Glad to hear it! If you keep up with larva injections then you never need multiple hatcheries in your main. Whenever you want a new hatchery just go grab another expansion... until you control the entire map.

I meant to play this weekend, but I got caught up playing The Witcher. Was hoping to crack into the Platinum league this weekend, I've still been messing around in the Gold league lately. XD Although I play a lot of practice matches against my friends in Diamond, but they just whoop my butt all the time.

Note: YAY! I'm finally not a newcomer, lol.

 

[Arris]

400 minerals for a hive that gives 3 larvae (and increases supply a bit) vs 150 for a queen that can provide an addition 4 to an existing hive, heal units and buildings with transfuse, create creep tumors that give speed bonuses to units and vision through the "fog of war" and give reasonable anti air and also can attack ground units. I do find that I find it annoying to have to manage injections but the benefits and lower cost make it worthwhile.

 

[Tyler3234]

is it worth it? or should i jsut stick to free mmorpgs?

 

[Arris]

is it worth it? or should i jsut stick to free mmorpgs?

Strange question. This is a RTS (real time strategy) game, so it's nothing like free or subscription mmorpgs, and doesn't use a subscription model so you buy the game, then play online in battle.net ladders/leagues for no charge.

For a change of pace to mmorpgs I'd recommend it. I was a long time World Of Warcraft player but have quit that and now just play FPS and RTS games for short periods rather than get locked into hours of dungeon crawling.

 

[vChRiSv]

Arris is right. The games aren't really relatable.

I was a MMORPG player for a long time, but I got bored of playing them... transitioned to playing SC2 and BF2. Sometimes I get into moods where I want to play an MMORPG, but those aren't frequent and are pretty short-lived.

Have you ever played an RTS? Also, you can always try out the Starter Edition of SC2, it's free.

 

[Arris]

Some great resources for gaining some further insight into the world of SC2:

http://www.youtube.com/user/day9tv
http://www.youtube.com/user/HuskyStarcraft?blend=1&ob=5

 

[Arris]

Been playing against hard computer some more and I finally found myself adapting to the information I gain from scouting. Saw the zerg computer putting down a roach warren. This prompted me to quickly grab a robotics bay and chrono boost out a few immortals. Needless to say the 10+ roaches the computer threw up my ramp to my base melted away to the immortals. After that placed a forward pylon at an expansion closer to his base, expanded and after a bit more reinforcement of my army walked through the computers base. Think I'm finally moving away from the "I like this unit, I'm just going to build loads of them!" mentality.

Also played about 5 or 6 3 vs 3 games with my friends in the bronze league. Think we lost just one game (good for us since only one of us plays a decent amount of SC2). Some good players around but some really bad too, probably fortunate for us. For some reason I thought I'd try zealot and voidray. Voidrays are too slow to keep up with charging zealots. So just used them for harassment instead. Lost my base with starports but had a warp prism left so just went into the back of the strongest opponents base and ripped it apart with warped in zealots while his whole army of carriers was on the other side of the map fighting at my team mates bases. In another match we had the zerg opponent throwing a huge army of ultralisks, zerglings and infestors at my base. Lost some voidrays to good fungal growth use, but chrono boosted out some phoenix and lifted the infestors and target fired them down, then the stalkers his team mate had sent with his army. I lost that base, but 5 void rays wiped out his whole force as he no longer had any anti air.

Needless to say I'm getting more and more into this game

For SNGX1275... I was playing zerg vs medium computers to finish some of the custom game achievements, and practice zerg play as I think it's my weakest race. Found that grouping queens and doing larva injects on the mini map(select group 3, press V, then click on hives on minimap) made it a lot more manageable than my previous manual queen selection and inject at each base. As spreading creep with creep tumors and rallying all forces to a central spot made it easier too. And trying to move spine and spore crawlers holding shift and R so they would root themselves when they got to the new location helped instead of having to wait for them to get there then tell them to root. Lots of these tips were learned from watching replays and Day 9 dailys on youtube. Great way to learn some advanced control and tactics.

 

[vChRiSv]

Good stuff man! Pretty much can't win any games in 1v1 leagues if you don't scout and react to what your opponents are doing. You should try to play in the 1v1 league, much better practice than playing against computers. I used to play against computers for a while too, but it became too repetitive... I find they all play the same.

3v3 games seem fun, but I've yet to try. Only played a couple of 2v2 games with my friend.

I haven't been able to play at all this week, busy with The Witcher, playing tennis and dealing with TekSavvy. Hopefully tonight though, still been meaning to make the push to Platinum.

 

[Arris]

Good stuff man! Pretty much can't win any games in 1v1 leagues if you don't scout and react to what your opponents are doing. You should try to play in the 1v1 league, much better practice than playing against computers. I used to play against computers for a while too, but it became too repetitive... I find they all play the same.

3v3 games seem fun, but I've yet to try. Only played a couple of 2v2 games with my friend.

Only problem is that 3 opponents rushing one of your team mates can be difficult to defend. Other than that it's quite fun, giving resources to each other to help out, terran lending medivacs to my zealots etc. etc.

Yeah, I really need to just play some 1vs1 now that I don't think I'm totally pathetic at the game

 

[vChRiSv]

Yeah, I really need to just play some 1vs1 now that I don't think I'm totally pathetic at the game

Lol it's all good, I always feel pathetic at the game. I have a lot of friends in the high Platinum/Diamond league that I've never come close to beating.

Besides the league and normal game, have you tried many custom games?

 

[TeamworkGuy2]

I play occasionally (DesertCuke #531).
I play protoss, I'm silver, but worse than some bronze players, not sure why I am in silver, I lose about 70% of my games, mostly because I can't get the hang of PvP, very hard to counter your own unit mixture, player with early expo(s) wins.
But anyway, I've been looking for some people to play with.

 

[vChRiSv]

I've been meaning to post my SC2 info but I keep forgetting too. :haha: I'll try to get on that when I get off of work.

I play protoss, I'm silver, but worse than some bronze players, not sure why I am in silver, I lose about 70% of my games, mostly because I can't get the hang of PvP, very hard to counter your own unit mixture, player with early expo(s) wins.

My Protoss friend said the exact same thing to me. He started as a low Silver, worked his way up to Gold now. He's about a mid-level Gold player I believe? Slowly working his way up Gold, I think he's having some troubles though.

Anyway, I digress... I don't understand the problem with PvP. Could you explain more? Personally, I'm a Terran player and I love facing my own race. TvT is one of the most interesting match-ups IMO.

 

[TeamworkGuy2]

For me at least the problem with PvP is that protoss have limited to no drop abilities.
The warp prism is fairly laughable, from my experience it melts in seconds to any anti air unit, maybe I should try harder, better positioning.
In most of the PvP games I have played, me and the other player both get 2-3 observers to keep tabs on things, so dark templars are out of the question.
Air units are out of the picture for strait up battles imo, because they are so fragile cost wise versus stalkers, and both teams have stalkers in copious numbers.
So the options left are collosi and immortals, or expand.
Since the robo facility is not that hard to get, tech wise, the player with the best income wins, first expo/second expo faster ~ game over in the lower leagues.
PvP is a very reactionary match up: get your opponents composition faster, whereas in PvT or PvZ, protoss has more options imo.
Maybe I am not describing my feelings correctly, but from re-watching my PvP replays the only differences I can find between me and the other player is that my army is bigger around 10:00 - 13:00 (but I don't move out, probably my losing flaw...), he has constant probe production and gets his natural up about 1:00 - 2:00 before mine, with about 4-8 extra probes, so GG at about 22:00 when we has both almost maxed, but I am still at like 160-170 supply.
He has those extra collosi or archons to beet me.
Sorry for the long spout, I am not mad, just having trouble enjoying playing the game because I so rarely win and yet can see my short comings, but get nervous in game and mess up my timings, scouting, or army positioning.
You should see me IRL when I play, I get all tense and my hands miss a lot of hot keys.
All in good fun, at least my problem is in a game, not IRL