Steve Wozniak warns Apple over removing the 3.5mm headphone jack for the iPhone 7

[Squid Surprise]

you are talking about those adapters that almost nobody used? you do realise that nobody wants to carry something like that in their pocket right?
1. why use an adaptor?
2. why use a shitty adaptor that will make your phone longer and thicker when that's the reason why they are removing the 3.5mm. and we're back to just how fragile these things are, especially for people who listen to music while jogging, cycling or doing any other activity. how are you going to keep the adaptor from not bending in your pocket and destroying the USB connectors?
3. nobody will ever believe that you never droped your phone.
4. yes, you will get hundreds of shitty and expensive headphones. it will be the same as buying Beats By Dre and saying that you have good headphones. you'll have a few "acceptable" headphones that cost over 300$ and that's about it.

in the end you just dug your own grave with faulty logic.

No.... I'm talking about an adapter that allows you to plug multiple devices into your iPhone at the same time (headphones and charger for instance)....
And no need to use an adapter if you get lighting headphones....

You only need one if you intend to be one of those stubborn people who decide that 3.5mm will be for them, despite the rest of the world moving on.... Kind of like those few people out there listening to 8-Track players... Or using VHS to watch movies....

I'm not claiming that I've never dropped my phone - I shattered my screen last time I did so.... But I can't really complain to Apple that they should have made their screen tougher... I should simply accept the responsibility of being that m0r0n who dropped his phone...

And again - once USB and lightning replace 3.5mm, you will see tons of headphones that use these interfaces - possibly even ones that have interchangeable cabling to make use of both (that's what I would do if I was a manufacturer anyways). You'll see crappy headphones, and good ones... Just like you see now...

And for the VAST majority of people - who can't tell the difference between wired and wireless - this will all be moot as they connect via Bluetooth...

As for the adapter bending and breaking in my pocket.... We haven't actually seen this adapter yet - yet you are already assuming it will be cheap and crappy? Maybe it will be a really good adapter that doesn't bend? We won't know until next month...

In the end, I'm not saying that lightning is superior to 3.5mm... I'm simply stating that unless you've actually used lightning for your headphones, YOU DON'T KNOW.... And you won't until the iPhone 7 comes out...

 

[Puiu]

No.... I'm talking about an adapter that allows you to plug multiple devices into your iPhone at the same time (headphones and charger for instance)....
And no need to use an adapter if you get lighting headphones....

You only need one if you intend to be one of those stubborn people who decide that 3.5mm will be for them, despite the rest of the world moving on.... Kind of like those few people out there listening to 8-Track players... Or using VHS to watch movies....

I'm not claiming that I've never dropped my phone - I shattered my screen last time I did so.... But I can't really complain to Apple that they should have made their screen tougher... I should simply accept the responsibility of being that m0r0n who dropped his phone...

And again - once USB and lightning replace 3.5mm, you will see tons of headphones that use these interfaces - possibly even ones that have interchangeable cabling to make use of both (that's what I would do if I was a manufacturer anyways). You'll see crappy headphones, and good ones... Just like you see now...

And for the VAST majority of people - who can't tell the difference between wired and wireless - this will all be moot as they connect via Bluetooth...

As for the adapter bending and breaking in my pocket.... We haven't actually seen this adapter yet - yet you are already assuming it will be cheap and crappy? Maybe it will be a really good adapter that doesn't bend? We won't know until next month...

In the end, I'm not saying that lightning is superior to 3.5mm... I'm simply stating that unless you've actually used lighting for your headphones, YOU DON'T KNOW.... And you won't until the iPhone 7 comes out...

in the end it just boils down to the fact that you'll have just 1 port instead of 2 and you'll be forced to use an adaptor (if one will even exist).
once you connect the phone to a charger/pc/any usb device bye bye music.

PS: the vast majority can and will tell the difference between good and bad headphones. they just don't care because they don't listen to music using their phone.

 

[Nobina]

not saying that lightning is superior to 3.5mm... I'm simply stating that unless you've actually used lighting for your headphones, YOU DON'T KNOW.... And you won't until the iPhone 7 comes out...

You said this some time ago

the lightning adapter provides more bandwidth to add other features such as noise cancelling, etc... I suspect that music will actually sound BETTER...

By providing more bandwidth and adding noise cancelling and other stuff you pulled out of your dumb *** you are clearly saying that it is better than 3.5mm jack. So what's it gonna be?

 

[Squid Surprise]

You said this some time ago


By providing more bandwidth and adding noise cancelling and other stuff you pulled out of your dumb *** you are clearly saying that it is better than 3.5mm jack. So what's it gonna be?

Apparently you can't read.... I said I SUSPECT it will be better.... I am NOT stating it as a fact like our other poster....

I said it was my opinion - then linked to a couple of other sites that also shared my opinion.... Also, APPLE shares my opinion...

If you disagree, that's fine... It's your OPINION! But unless you can provide me some real evidence, I take umbrage with anyone stating that it's a fact that 3.5mm is better...

We cannot know until it's actually out!

 

[Squid Surprise]

in the end it just boils down to the fact that you'll have just 1 port instead of 2 and you'll be forced to use an adaptor (if one will even exist).
once you connect the phone to a charger/pc/any usb device bye bye music.

PS: the vast majority can and will tell the difference between good and bad headphones. they just don't care because they don't listen to music using their phone.

Really? Provide some evidence for that last statement.... I recall numerous tests done where people were unable to distinguish between stereo and 5.1 sound, let alone Bluetooth and wired.... Crank up the volume and 90% of people think it's the "good stuff".

Apparently you can't read either.... U will almost certainly be able to charge your phone and listen to music - and you have no idea if the adapter will be cheap or break easily... Come back and argue with me in a few months once we know!!

 

[yRaz]

Apparently you can't read.... I said I SUSPECT it will be better.... I am NOT stating it as a fact like our other poster....

I said it was my opinion - then linked to a couple of other sites that also shared my opinion.... Also, APPLE shares my opinion...

If you disagree, that's fine... It's your OPINION! But unless you can provide me some real evidence, I take umbrage with anyone stating that it's a fact that 3.5mm is better...

We cannot know until it's actually out!

Well we can compare it to existing technology and know how that works, like USB-C. Adding the DAC to the device, which it will have to do by its very design(since USB and Lighting can't carry analog signal). this increases cost significantly. The DAC will also be much smaller and with less shielding. Most USB heaphones have the DAC in the USB male connector. I don't know why Apple headphones wouldn't have the DAC in the lighting port connector. Earbuds are too small to put a DAC in. Or, if the DAC is small enough it sacrifices quality.

My problem isn't with apple, it's the removing of the DAC from the device to the head set. The design is poor and Apple has choosen to adopt it. Without giving you the choice of using 3.5mm headphones.

I really don't understand what you are having trouble understand about this. This idea of removing capability at the expense of performance and cost is so basic I don't know how to explain it any further.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Are we 100% certain that the DAC won't be in the iPhone? Just because they are removing the 3.5mm port doesn't necessitate that.... Have we actually had lightning audio before? No.... We haven't....

While I have no proof, I would SUSPECT that the new iPhone will cost the same amount as last year's (unless there's a 256gb model, which will be pricier)... So the added cost, if any, won't be born by the consumer... As for quality - let's wait and see

 

[yRaz]

Are we 100% certain that the DAC won't be in the iPhone? Just because they are removing the 3.5mm port doesn't necessitate that.... Have we actually had lightning audio before? No.... We haven't....

While I have no proof, I would SUSPECT that the new iPhone will cost the same amount as last year's (unless there's a 256gb model, which will be pricier)... So the added cost, if any, won't be born by the consumer... As for quality - let's wait and see

The lighting port is full digital, there is no way to carry an analog signal over a digtal port. Therefore, the DAC HAS to be built into either the male connector or in the headphones

 

[Squid Surprise]

The lighting port is full digital, there is no way to carry an analog signal over a digtal port. Therefore, the DAC HAS to be built into either the male connector or in the headphones

Good point... so you'll either have to buy headphones with a DAC included (most good ones do), or simply use an adapter for your existing ones... I still don't see this as much of a barrier...

 

[Musician]

Lightning or USB Type C is fine by me, but no reason to remove something that works great (the 3.5mm).

 

[Bigtruckseries]

I never thought that I'd actually see one in the wild, but I guess they're real. Just a quick question, if 4k video is so important to you and you don't care how much something costs, why don't you buy a real 4k video camera with interchangeable lenses?

iPhone is more practical.

 

[yRaz]

Good point... so you'll either have to buy headphones with a DAC included (most good ones do), or simply use an adapter for your existing ones... I still don't see this as much of a barrier...

I don't think you understand what a DAC is....

 

[yRaz]

iPhone is more practical.

Not for 4k video

 

[Jamesbrah]

I'm all into Bluetooth... and if you are an audiophile that CAN TELL the difference between awesome and great headphones, you are probably not listening out of an iPhone so I don't really see the issue. Worst case scenario, an adaptor plug.

The funny thing is... apple creates a new phone and there it comes with a new power connector, and now they want to change the 3.5mm plug and hold your panties guys!! Seriously...

If you have a car with a good sound system, and you use bluetooth to listen - then you can definitely tell the difference. I always have to use AUX when accessing my phone's music when I drive, as for the reasons mentioned above.

 

[Kibaruk]

If you have a car with a good sound system, and you use bluetooth to listen - then you can definitely tell the difference. I always have to use AUX when accessing my phone's music when I drive, as for the reasons mentioned above.

Read above about good technologies not being widely used, your sound system might be good, your stereo bluetooth connection apparently sucks. I've used BT for some years now, I had a stereo at home (Not a fancy one) and the objective when I bought it was BT, there where some that really sucked and you could definitely hear the difference, so it's all in getting the right equipment (And again, it was nothing fancy like Bosse or other stuff that are known for high BT quality).

 

[Squid Surprise]

If you have a car with a good sound system, and you use bluetooth to listen - then you can definitely tell the difference. I always have to use AUX when accessing my phone's music when I drive, as for the reasons mentioned above.

USB is becoming common for most cars now... The future does not include AUX

 

[SirGCal]

I use the ... as spacers....

Three periods denotes a pause, not a spacer...

I don't ignore facts - when you are debating, it's simply a matter of PROVING things you argue...

The FACT is that Apple is removing the 3.5mm from the iPhone - anyone who thinks its a bad idea is therefore obligated to prove why... I agree with Apple - so what do I need to prove?

I gave my reasons as to why I agree with them - and provided links to various other people who also agree... As this will take place in the future, concrete proof as to the superiority of the Lightning adapter's sound obviously doesn't exist.

The point you coninute to miss is the DAC for 3.5mm jacks are 1) cheap and 2) rather high quality, especially for their cost. USB and 'other' options (bluetooth, etc.) all sound worse in comparison. People have tried to explain this multiple times but you're either trolling or have some other problem.

But to state AS FACT that this is a terrible idea is simply irresponsible... We won't know that it's a terrible idea until after it is done!!!

And if the past is any indication (Apple omitting cd/DVD from their laptops, etc), it will probably be quite successful. Remember, this is probably the most successful company in human history - maybe they are doing something right?

I stopped using all Apple products when they did that. All of my laptops and desktops have optical drives. I truly don't know how people work productively (unless all they do is facebook) without optical drives. Even just for the occasional movie. I do not like Streaming because my BluRay disks are surprisingly clearer and smoother then 4K streams from current sources. Quite simply, the internet just cannot transfer the bits necessary to 'stream' video of that level of quality today. Maybe if you have Fiber but in the US that's what, 1% population with that option? less? Most people are in my boat and stuck with the 'only game in town' with a super-massive turbo-extreme speed of 50M down and 5M up... WEEE! I'd rather pop in the disk. Or backup up to 50G of a project onto optical media to send to other personnel, etc. (Try to upload that with my wounderful 5M upload speed... ya...)

Let's spell that one tiny part out shall we? 5M/sec upload. It's reported in BITS to make the consumer feel like they get more then they do. Device that by 8 to get Bytes. 0.625 Mega Bytes upload per second. After you do all the math and assume only 10% overhead and also assume you're going to use every bit of your upload, That ends up with 25 hours of upload speed. Not to mention their download speed limitations, etc. I can burn a disk in a few minutes and in a bind, get it there same day.

Back on cables; I bought one of the original iPods, way way back. I used it for almost a month then returned it for a refund. It just didn't "do" anything different then a regular MP3 player, and it required a proprietary cable which I was sure to lose and/or break. I decided then it wasn't worth it.

This is just more, They think people don't use it. I for-one cannot stand Bluetooth for music because it sounds horrid, even with newer phones (though less horrid then it was a few years back). Phone calls, fine. I have many high quality headsets for my PCs/Laptops, all of which use 3.5mm pins. Some even with converters to combine head and mic to use with a cellphone or similar. (I can use my Sennheiser PC350's with my phone).

I have never liked USB for those (then your DAC is dependent on the headset, there are nice ones but there is also garbage) nor Bluetooth for mobile devices. The 3.5mm jack is super simple, cheap and offers a higher grade audio output capability.

My car has USB, AUX, and Bluetooth. The kids have a USB Dongle with some of their stuff on it but my stuff runs through AUX. Even through the phone, it sounds so much better then Bluetooth. But it is a 2010. Newer Bluetooth sounds nicer, but still not as true as a simple 3.5mm jack. The 2016 I had last month when the car was in the shop still had an AUX jack so...

Hey, if you're one of the tone-deaf sheep Apple caters too, great. Perfect fit for ya. By all means, enjoy. We won't. Multiple people have explained in plenty of detail why, we do not need to prove anything more. We don't have to prove jack to anyone, let alone you. Although that makes me wounder why I even took the time to type this message.

 

[SirGCal]

Read above about good technologies not being widely used, your sound system might be good, your stereo bluetooth connection apparently sucks. I've used BT for some years now, I had a stereo at home (Not a fancy one) and the objective when I bought it was BT, there where some that really sucked and you could definitely hear the difference, so it's all in getting the right equipment (And again, it was nothing fancy like Bosse or other stuff that are known for high BT quality).

Bose. And FWIW, I cannot stand Bose. Too much bass, only starts to sound good cranked up... I'll pass.

I, however, have heard some decent Bluetooth setups. But in every case, take the same thing and go direct, and it always sounds better. The layer of Bluetooth takes away from the sound. I do like it's features however that get offered in those cases, through the device in question. That alone makes it curious if someone will use Bluetooth for functionality and then send audio another way. Best of all options. But right now, it's Bluetooth or not, not a mix.

 

[Squid Surprise]

Three periods denotes a pause, not a spacer...

Yes... but I use them as spacers.... too bad for you if you don't like it... and a "spacer" still requires a pause - suck it up...

The point you coninute to miss is the DAC for 3.5mm jacks are 1) cheap and 2) rather high quality, especially for their cost. USB and 'other' options (bluetooth, etc.) all sound worse in comparison. People have tried to explain this multiple times but you're either trolling or have some other problem.

I disagree... they might be cheaper NOW, but as I tried to explain, they won't be in the future, once 3.5mm is gone (and it WILL be gone - see the writing on the wall please!). Try finding VHS players... or 8-tracks.... not so cheap and common now, eh?

I stopped using all Apple products when they did that. All of my laptops and desktops have optical drives. I truly don't know how people work productively (unless all they do is facebook) without optical drives. Even just for the occasional movie. I do not like Streaming because my BluRay disks are surprisingly clearer and smoother then 4K streams from current sources. Quite simply, the internet just cannot transfer the bits necessary to 'stream' video of that level of quality today. Maybe if you have Fiber but in the US that's what, 1% population with that option? less? Most people are in my boat and stuck with the 'only game in town' with a super-massive turbo-extreme speed of 50M down and 5M up... WEEE! I'd rather pop in the disk. Or backup up to 50G of a project onto optical media to send to other personnel, etc. (Try to upload that with my wounderful 5M upload speed... ya...)

So... you're talking about how rare having fiber is in the same paragraph with you not using Apple products? Do you see the irony here with Apple being the biggest company in the world? Apple doesn't care about the 1%... they care about the average user... and the average user doesn't use an optical drive nor will they use 3.5mm

Let's spell that one tiny part out shall we? 5M/sec upload. It's reported in BITS to make the consumer feel like they get more then they do. Device that by 8 to get Bytes. 0.625 Mega Bytes upload per second. After you do all the math and assume only 10% overhead and also assume you're going to use every bit of your upload, That ends up with 25 hours of upload speed. Not to mention their download speed limitations, etc. I can burn a disk in a few minutes and in a bind, get it there same day.
Back on cables; I bought one of the original iPods, way way back. I used it for almost a month then returned it for a refund. It just didn't "do" anything different then a regular MP3 player, and it required a proprietary cable which I was sure to lose and/or break. I decided then it wasn't worth it.

This is just more, They think people don't use it. I for-one cannot stand Bluetooth for music because it sounds horrid, even with newer phones (though less horrid then it was a few years back). Phone calls, fine. I have many high quality headsets for my PCs/Laptops, all of which use 3.5mm pins. Some even with converters to combine head and mic to use with a cellphone or similar. (I can use my Sennheiser PC350's with my phone).

I have never liked USB for those (then your DAC is dependent on the headset, there are nice ones but there is also garbage) nor Bluetooth for mobile devices. The 3.5mm jack is super simple, cheap and offers a higher grade audio output capability.

My car has USB, AUX, and Bluetooth. The kids have a USB Dongle with some of their stuff on it but my stuff runs through AUX. Even through the phone, it sounds so much better then Bluetooth. But it is a 2010. Newer Bluetooth sounds nicer, but still not as true as a simple 3.5mm jack. The 2016 I had last month when the car was in the shop still had an AUX jack so...

Hey, if you're one of the tone-deaf sheep Apple caters too, great. Perfect fit for ya. By all means, enjoy. We won't. Multiple people have explained in plenty of detail why, we do not need to prove anything more. We don't have to prove jack to anyone, let alone you. Although that makes me wounder why I even took the time to type this message.

Good for you... notice how almost no laptops come with optical drives? The whole point of this is it's for the MASSES... not the rare throwback like yourself who needs optical drives and non-ipod music players

Not sure why you'd even care about the iPhone losing its 3.5mm port, as it's clearly not good enough for you anyways...

 

[spydercanopus]

Perhaps there will be some physical pass-thru for analog output in the iPhone 7's lightning jack.

It would still need an adapter for analog output to fit the 3.5mm jack, but it could also use that same jack for digital output if you want.

Maybe they'll include wireless charging this time so you can listen to music while it juices up.

And I'm hoping for some headphones that double as a phone charger. Out of juice? Charge it off your 2000mAh headphone battery.

I like having 3.5mm jack because they're everywhere, but if I can go BT, I do every time. Can't tell the difference in my car (2013 Civic Si)

PS: The squid kid is annoying.

 

[Squid Surprise]

PS: The squid kid is annoying.

Yet it seems you agree with me....

 

[Nick H]

Hi, you're using my photo of Woz. Please credit me as the photographer as stated on the usage terms, otherwise please remove and kindly use your own photo.

 

[blkspade]

Yes... but I use them as spacers.... too bad for you if you don't like it... and a "spacer" still requires a pause - suck it up...



I disagree... they might be cheaper NOW, but as I tried to explain, they won't be in the future, once 3.5mm is gone (and it WILL be gone - see the writing on the wall please!). Try finding VHS players... or 8-tracks.... not so cheap and common now, eh?



So... you're talking about how rare having fiber is in the same paragraph with you not using Apple products? Do you see the irony here with Apple being the biggest company in the world? Apple doesn't care about the 1%... they care about the average user... and the average user doesn't use an optical drive nor will they use 3.5mm



Good for you... notice how almost no laptops come with optical drives? The whole point of this is it's for the MASSES... not the rare throwback like yourself who needs optical drives and non-ipod music players

Not sure why you'd even care about the iPhone losing its 3.5mm port, as it's clearly not good enough for you anyways...

I can kind of see where you're getting confused. You're making a false equivalence between the 3.5mm jack and other old technologies simply because of age. The 3.5mm jack is about KISS. It has a simple task that is always going to exist somewhere in the chain. Move an analog signal from the DAC through a medium, to the drivers. Once its analog, the concept bandwidth stops being the concern in favor of the quality of the medium (copper in the cable), because that's where the signal begins to degrade. The jack has no limitation outside of surface area, which is expressed in one of 2 ways from either side. A lack thereof for multiple channels (beyond 2), or too much for the desired form factor of the device. Nothing about removing the jack for other alternatives is beneficial to producing 2 channel audio. The signal has to be analog before it hits the drivers, and subsequently your ears. The only real benefit you get from digital audio interfaces, is more audio channels, with less cabling (surface area), between specific points in the chain. Along with maintaining signal integrity over the digital run of the signal. There was something functional to gain moving from VHS, in a wide range of areas. Nothing about video has to be analog (excluding how light works all by itself as both), anywhere in the chain, and is greatly benefited by moving away from it. Magnetic storage degrades from environmental factors over time. Nothing is gained moving to the lightning connector for audio, unless you want to potentially use 5.1 headphones out of your iPhone. Even then you could probably (crosstalk?) technically get that forgoing an inline mic and controls with 3.5mm. An external DAC will take up more space, and require more if not separate power. That's just physics at work. The effort taken to make the phone slightly slimmer, leaves you with something twice the bulk somewhere on the outside. Congratulations on being less efficient.

 

[Kibaruk]

Necro much? It's been over 3 months, it's dead already

 

[Squid Surprise]

I can kind of see where you're getting confused. You're making a false equivalence between the 3.5mm jack and other old technologies simply because of age. The 3.5mm jack is about KISS. It has a simple task that is always going to exist somewhere in the chain. Move an analog signal from the DAC through a medium, to the drivers. Once its analog, the concept bandwidth stops being the concern in favor of the quality of the medium (copper in the cable), because that's where the signal begins to degrade. The jack has no limitation outside of surface area, which is expressed in one of 2 ways from either side. A lack thereof for multiple channels (beyond 2), or too much for the desired form factor of the device. Nothing about removing the jack for other alternatives is beneficial to producing 2 channel audio. The signal has to be analog before it hits the drivers, and subsequently your ears. The only real benefit you get from digital audio interfaces, is more audio channels, with less cabling (surface area), between specific points in the chain. Along with maintaining signal integrity over the digital run of the signal. There was something functional to gain moving from VHS, in a wide range of areas. Nothing about video has to be analog (excluding how light works all by itself as both), anywhere in the chain, and is greatly benefited by moving away from it. Magnetic storage degrades from environmental factors over time. Nothing is gained moving to the lightning connector for audio, unless you want to potentially use 5.1 headphones out of your iPhone. Even then you could probably (crosstalk?) technically get that forgoing an inline mic and controls with 3.5mm. An external DAC will take up more space, and require more if not separate power. That's just physics at work. The effort taken to make the phone slightly slimmer, leaves you with something twice the bulk somewhere on the outside. Congratulations on being less efficient.

lol.... a little bit necro... and 3 months later, after hearing that Samsung is also removing their 3.5mm port, my argument seems to be holding up quite well.

Regardless of perceived gains by holding on to the 3.5mm adapter, the writing is clearly on the wall for it... So long, farewell, auf wiedersen, GOODBYE!