Sun Microsystems co-founder supports forced TikTok sale, calls it China's "programmable fentanyl"

midian182

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A hot potato: Joining the list of people who support the US government's attempt to force ByteDance into diversifying TikTok is Sun Microsystems co-founder Vinod Khosla. The OpenAI backer didn't hold back when talking about the popular short-form video platform, noting that it could be weaponized by a foreign adversary. He also called the app programmable fentanyl whose effects are under the control of the Chinese Communist Party (CCP).

In an op-ed piece for the Financial Times, Khosla wrote that while many in Silicon Valley are opposed to the government's bill that will force ByteDance to sell TikTok, he staunchly supports it.

Khosla writes that neither himself nor his companies stand to gain or lose anything based on the outcome of the bill, but he believes it will prevent a foreign adversary, I.e., China, from controlling a platform to deploy "persuasive AI." The billionaire says this could be used to surreptitiously manipulate US citizens, compromise elections, push divisive content, and otherwise promote the objectives of the CCP.

Khosla notes that the Chinese government placed the TikTok algorithm on a restricted list of technologies in 2020 that prevents its export without government approval. He says it's why China will refuse to divest the app if the bill becomes law. This will lead to it being blocked on US app stores and web hosting platforms, and could even see ISPs blocking traffic to TikTok, and social networks being forced to stop videos from the app from being shared.

While a full-on ban sounds extreme, Khosla's belief that the Chinese government will hold tightly to TikTok is shared by former White House Chief Information Officer (CIO) Theresa Payton. She warns that US tech firms should prepare for a ban for this very reason.

Khosla points out that the US banned Huawei routers in telecoms networks over surveillance fears, so it stands to reason that TikTok should face the same consequences. As for the Free Speech argument, he says that the legislation targets TikTok's owners; it doesn't censor the app's content.

There's also the claim that the worst elements of using TikTok – potential addiction among young people – are absent in China. Chinese users aged 14 and younger can only use the country's version of the app, Douyin, for 40 minutes per day.

"Spinach for Chinese kids, fentanyl – another chief export of China's – for ours," Khosla said. "Worse still, TikTok is a programmable fentanyl whose effects are under the control of the CCP."

The Protecting Americans from Foreign Adversary Controlled Applications Act would also force other foreign-owned social media platforms to be sold if they are deemed a threat to national security.

Someone who isn't a fan of a potential ban is Apple co-founder Steve Wozniak. He says he doesn't understand it and called the US government hypocritical for targeting just one social media platform for tracking users when they all do it.

President Biden gave his blessing to the bill a few days after it was passed by Congress last month. However, the bill is facing delays in the Senate.

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I'm absolutely shocked, SHOCKED I tell you, that the jackarses at sun would support this. Definitely will never come back to bite them, I'm sure.
 
I’m with Wozniak on this one… and frankly I’m slightly with the CCP too (which is frankly highly unusual for me)… our abuse of the internet has large personal ramifications for many people in vulnerable groups, and action needs to be taken so that massive corporations don’t encourage that behaviour for increased ad sales. Their shareholder profits are not worth the impacts to mental health on troubled groups.
 
It's a very simple equation: Any of these boomers pushing for this ban should immediately be questioned with 'Do you support also dissolving Twitter, Facebook, Youtube and any American-based social networks as well?' And demand they answer only on certain terms: With only a 'Yes/No' reply.

Otherwise there is no way that this isn't just a parallel of the exact kind of censorship the US (And it's client Nations and proxy organizations) cry about China and the CCP censoring all of the time and for the exact same reasons.
 
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It's a very simple equation: Any of these boomers pushing for this ban should immediately be questioned with 'Do you support also dissolving Twitter, Facebook, Youtube and any American-based social networks as well?' And demand they answer only on certain terms: With only a 'Yes/No' reply.

Otherwise there is no way that this isn't just a parallel of the exact kind of censorship the US (And it's client Nations and proxy organizations) cry about China and the CCP censoring all of the time and for the exact same reasons.

No, it's protection against a foreign national (China) hoovering up data on US citizens and using that info for whatever means they want (extortion, insider info, etc...). I guarantee there are some posts on TikTok that young adults will regret posting there in 2030 or something.

Now, I agree that Facebook, Twitter, etc.... aren't paragons of virtue either, but it's certainly not an apples to apples comparison.
 
No, it's protection against a foreign national (China) hoovering up data on US citizens and using that info for whatever means they want (extortion, insider info, etc...). I guarantee there are some posts on TikTok that young adults will regret posting there in 2030 or something.

Now, I agree that Facebook, Twitter, etc.... aren't paragons of virtue either, but it's certainly not an apples to apples comparison.

'it's protection against a foreign national (U.S.A.) hoovering up data on Chinese citizens and using that info for whatever means they want (extortion, insider info, etc...)'

I basically had to change 2 words to express almost exactly why the CCP has been restricting internet access and specially foreign social media pretty much since before their invention and certainly for the entire time we've had things like facebook or twitter.

How is this not an apples to apples comparison? It's the exact same reasons why the CCP has their Firewall up: The only reason why you think it's 'not apples to apples' it's just because you assume that protecting US citizens from Chinese interference is a morally unquestionable action while the reverse is evil authoritarianism but functionally, it's the exact same action in reverse with the exact same explicit and implicit motivation from the US: a counter-propaganda effort.
 
'it's protection against a foreign national (U.S.A.) hoovering up data on Chinese citizens and using that info for whatever means they want (extortion, insider info, etc...)'

I basically had to change 2 words to express almost exactly why the CCP has been restricting internet access and specially foreign social media pretty much since before their invention and certainly for the entire time we've had things like facebook or twitter.

How is this not an apples to apples comparison? It's the exact same reasons why the CCP has their Firewall up: The only reason why you think it's 'not apples to apples' it's just because you assume that protecting US citizens from Chinese interference is a morally unquestionable action while the reverse is evil authoritarianism but functionally, it's the exact same action in reverse with the exact same explicit and implicit motivation from the US: a counter-propaganda effort.

Ugh, no. The US government doesn't / can't actively spy on the data that Facebook, etc.. collect. Chinese government can very, very easily compel TikTok to give them carte blanche access to anything in there. I'm sure the NSA is keeping some sort of eye on stuff, but in broad terms...the US government can't just ask Facebook for data without going through the courts.

No, the CCP has their firewall up so citizens don't get grandiose ideas about social freedoms and what they're missing out on. It's about controlling what their own citizens see and hear and why they built / allowed to be built platforms like TikTok. Additionally, I don't see the US government complaining about it or even Facebook, etc...Sure, Facebook has tried to get into China, but has been rebuffed, but that's at the business level. Additionally, a lot of western companies doing business in China are required to keep all the traffic / data "in-house" in China and are heavily restricted about what they can export. So, Facebook wouldn't have been "hoovering" up anything that the US government would have been able to see even if they got permission to do so.
 
Ugh, no. The US government doesn't / can't actively spy on the data that Facebook, etc.. collect.

That's been documented and confirmed to have happened already. And I say confirmed because under something like the Patriot Act, you have no way of knowing if a secret court already compelled Facebook (Or any other number of agencies) to reveal the information and also barred them from disclosing this at all, everything perfectly US legal under a fairly low legal standard for government agencies to clear as long as there's a tiny bit of 'Intelligence' showing is a matter of national security.

Sorry but like most Americans, you're not actually making any coherent argument and are not even familiar with your own government actions in the past anyway.
 
Are you a bot? Cause you know that SUN Microsystems has been out of business / bought by Oracle since around 2010. They no longer exist. So, your comment makes no sense.
Am I a bot? No, frankly it would be cool to be immortal, but alas I am cursed with the wretched flesh of the living.
Ugh, no. The US government doesn't / can't actively spy on the data that Facebook, etc.. collect. Chinese government can very, very easily compel TikTok to give them carte blanche access to anything in there. I'm sure the NSA is keeping some sort of eye on stuff, but in broad terms...the US government can't just ask Facebook for data without going through the courts.

No, the CCP has their firewall up so citizens don't get grandiose ideas about social freedoms and what they're missing out on. It's about controlling what their own citizens see and hear and why they built / allowed to be built platforms like TikTok. Additionally, I don't see the US government complaining about it or even Facebook, etc...Sure, Facebook has tried to get into China, but has been rebuffed, but that's at the business level. Additionally, a lot of western companies doing business in China are required to keep all the traffic / data "in-house" in China and are heavily restricted about what they can export. So, Facebook wouldn't have been "hoovering" up anything that the US government would have been able to see even if they got permission to do so.
Sweet Jesus. This is far past naïve, this is just willful ignorance.

If after Assange, Snowden, and the CEO of Qwest you still believe the US government agencies like the NSA cannot spy on you through these vast social media conglomerates, I dont really know what to say. Do you ever get tired of shoving your head in the sand?
 
Am I a bot? No, frankly it would be cool to be immortal, but alas I am cursed with the wretched flesh of the living.
Sweet Jesus. This is far past naïve, this is just willful ignorance.

If after Assange, Snowden, and the CEO of Qwest you still believe the US government agencies like the NSA cannot spy on you through these vast social media conglomerates, I dont really know what to say. Do you ever get tired of shoving your head in the sand?

Oh, I'm well aware of the Pariot Act and FOIA requests to see what's being monitored, Snowden, etc... it's still not anywhere close to what the CCP does. I've never posted anything on Facebook. I posted some stupid **** no one cares about on Instagram for a few months pre-2014 or something, but never used Twitter or TikTok or any other "social media" outside of a couple of forums. However, anything completely blatent that would "flag" me for anything I would never discuss on anything that isn't 100% end-to-end encrypted and fully controlled by someone who isn't a "corporation".
 
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That's been documented and confirmed to have happened already. And I say confirmed because under something like the Patriot Act, you have no way of knowing if a secret court already compelled Facebook (Or any other number of agencies) to reveal the information and also barred them from disclosing this at all, everything perfectly US legal under a fairly low legal standard for government agencies to clear as long as there's a tiny bit of 'Intelligence' showing is a matter of national security.

Sorry but like most Americans, you're not actually making any coherent argument and are not even familiar with your own government actions in the past anyway.

There is a difference between actively analyzing 100% of the data coming in / out of system vs. getting requests from a commitee you're not allowed to disclose..however low or wide the bar may be.

 
Oh, I'm well aware of the Pariot Act and FOIA requests to see what's being monitored, Snowden, etc... it's still not anywhere close to what the CCP does. I've never posted anything on Facebook. I posted some stupid **** no one cares about on Instagram for a few months pre-2014 or something, but never used Twitter or TikTok or any other "social media" outside of a couple of forums. However, anything completely blatent that would "flag" me for anything I would never discuss on anything that isn't 100% end-to-end encrypted and fully controlled by someone who isn't a "corporation".
The difference is not all that insubstantial as you want to think it is: Under the previous president a blanket ban of several countries just because of the majority of religious believes was already in place under the pretense of the pandemic. Some of the policies also based on little else than 'They're sending the worst!' rhetoric from that previous (And still plausible future) President are still in place, under a Democratic Administration that just doesn't really cares to reverse them or to seriously contest policies and blanket, openly bigoted actions on states like Texas or Florida.

The only thing that the CCP has over the us Is a few decades head start when it comes to limiting and filtering the entire internet but as we discussed, there's very real current events and policies pushed by either side of the 'political parties' And if you wanted to test the limits of free speech right now, you should try to openly be critical of Israel on the internet and openly organizing protests and demonstrations that are openly pro-palestine and see how long it takes for some charges to suddenly appear and the organizations to be suddenly hit with a lot of charges: Again we know this would happen because it has already happened to many organizers around the Black Lives Matter or the Cop City protests.

So as it's been pointed out, before I choose to stop interacting with you for good, you have to be willfully willing to put aside so many authoritarian actions past and present to think there's not even a small chance these uncovered surveilling programs and special powers and legislation and mandates to just be openly use against any citizen or really anybody domestically or abroad, that poses a serious challenge to the US Capitalist Hegemony and it's continued and open march towards Fascism.
 
""Spinach for Chinese kids, fentanyl – another chief export of China's – for ours," Khosla said. "Worse still, TikTok is a programmable fentanyl whose effects are under the control of the CCP.""

So, what is it that Woz does not understand?
 
All social media should be banned .. it is all poison ..
I'll second that. Facebook was once a great thing, but once they went IPO it was all over. It's complete trash now. MySpace was good for a while, but it was never that good to begin with. Twitter was always trash..

Tiktok is a cesspool and little more.
 
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No, the whole principle of linking real life to a globally traceable online account is just wrong. You're basically asking be randomly doxxed.
 
Labeling an activity as addictive is only a euphemism - For building up the guilt trip.

The real fix is the forced removal of tracking. As well as solving the immediate tracking problem, it also removes the competitive advantage in advertising. This will then allow the traditional advertising channels to recover and thereby remove a big chunk of social-media's revenue.

Maybe subscriptions will be the outcome. Without the insane focus on clicks for ad revenue the web sites might actually be nicer to their users.
 
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