The Nvidia RTX 4070 Ti could launch on January 5

OortCloud

Posts: 826   +820
Nobody cares Jensen. Given it's still very over-optimistic name it will be far too expensive. Around $850 for a mid-range card with some terrible DLSS3 fake crappy frame generation with built in latency. There is very little to recommend about it.
 

waclark

Posts: 707   +451
Those ‘native’ non-DLSS frame rates are quite telling. There’s only a 10% improvement over the 3080 - which makes the prior naming of ‘4080’ even more baffling.
Depends on the game. In some games it's 20-30% faster. In F1 it's about 93% the fps of a 3090Ti, in Flight Sim it's within 2% of the 3090Ti performance. Of course, they only showed us 3 games, so I'm not sure this is conclusive in any way.
 

waclark

Posts: 707   +451
+1000

I'll give money to the ones that try to bring something better and cheaper, the same story as Ryzen vs Intel models. If the "bullies" with just lowering the price shadow the other ones, then they'll have the monopoly.
So if Intel has better performance at a lower price, they are bullies? But AMD with lower prices and similar performance are heroes?
Of course nvidia also deserves credit for making standard:
- they started VRR with G-sync
- they started with DLSS
- they made professional drivers with support for most 3D apps / CUDA support (most don't support AMD neither Intel gpus)
- they usually support a GPU for very long / long enough (and other products as the nvidia shield tv)
- they have the best drivers
- they have streaming optimizations which are almost non-existent on AMD or Intel

So, on one hand I give kudos for Nvidia, on the other hand they are escalating on the price increase just "because".
"Because" is called supply and demand. If you have a house that appraises for $500K and someone offers you $600K, you wouldn't take it? Sure you would and so would I. And, by the way, I don't think AMD selling $1000 cards is really doing anyone a favor, is it? People thought $1000 3090s were over priced but now a 7900XTX is a great deal. Seems counterintuitive.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,393   +2,960
I'll give money to the ones that try to bring something better and cheaper, the same story as Ryzen vs Intel models.
Exactly my number one reason why I hate Intel and Nvidia.
If the "bullies" with just lowering the price shadow the other ones, then they'll have the monopoly.
Thats what the rabid cult member dont get, even though, they are already experiencing with the insane pricing attached to any nvidia gpu.
Of course nvidia also deserves credit for making standard:
Sorry, but not standards, they are simple locking mechanism to keep you imprisoned to their hardware.
they have the best drivers
Sorry, not true and dont take my word for it, take it from Steven Walton himself, whom has debunked that on these forums.
So, on one hand I give kudos for Nvidia, on the other hand they are escalating on the price increase just "because".
They have done a lot for the gaming industry but have also done even more harm than good.
They need a big serving of humble pie, like what Intel is currently getting.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,393   +2,960
Ehh so now I'm confused. Apparently, it's down to a firmware update and this was the Dell support response to someone asking about my specific monitor.

"
From the start, the AW3418DW was marketed and sold as an Nvidia G-Sync monitor. We are not going to create a firmware for the Nvidia G-Sync scaler IC board making it an Nvidia G-Sync monitor with AMD FreeSync compatibility. This would take away from our potential sale of our dedicated Alienware AMD FreeSync/Nvidia G-Sync compatible monitors.

If still under warranty, click the "Get help now" icon on the right to start a live chat session"

So I guess this is my last DELL monitor ever.
And thats why I avoid anything proprietary and even more if it comes from Nvidia.

Always and I mean ALWAYS, go for provider that uses open standards.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,093   +3,985
TechSpot Elite
The RTX 4070 is going to have a significant impact on the market because the prices on the high-end RTX 30-series cards is just insane:
ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 TRINITY OC 10GB: $740
GIGABYTE Eagle GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12GB: $1,092
ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3090 AMP Extreme Holo 24GB: $1,200
Gainward GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Glare OC Video Card 24GB: $1,550
These last-gen cards are all priced HIGHER than the RX 7900 XTX. Meanwhile, the XTX would wreck every one of them and they wouldn't even be able to beat it in RT performance. This is how you know that something is wrong with the market. The fact that these are priced at this level tells me that there are people willing to pay this much for these cards and THAT is what is wrong with the market.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,269   +7,622
The RTX 4070 is going to have a significant impact on the market because the prices on the high-end RTX 30-series cards is just insane:
ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3080 TRINITY OC 10GB: $740
GIGABYTE Eagle GeForce RTX 3080 Ti 12GB: $1,092
ZOTAC GAMING GeForce RTX 3090 AMP Extreme Holo 24GB: $1,200
Gainward GeForce RTX 3090 Ti Glare OC Video Card 24GB: $1,550
These last-gen cards are all priced HIGHER than the RX 7900 XTX. Meanwhile, the XTX would wreck every one of them and they wouldn't even be able to beat it in RT performance. This is how you know that something is wrong with the market.<...>
nVidia hubris is, IMO, what is wrong with the market!
 

rmcrys

Posts: 296   +239
So if Intel has better performance at a lower price, they are bullies? But AMD with lower prices and similar performance are heroes?

"Because" is called supply and demand. [...] And, by the way, I don't think AMD selling $1000 cards is really doing anyone a favor, is it? People thought $1000 3090s were over priced but now a 7900XTX is a great deal. Seems counterintuitive.
That concept is mainly done by extreme capitalism with no respect for buyers, so since countries apply rules on extrem cases.

But for the common buyer, having a brain is the best thing and that is what I meant: the best decision is to buy the right card for your money; not the one that is in fashion or the absolute best because of Freud-issues (which is usually the talk of "if I want to be cool and happy, I have to buy the fastest, biggest, meanest")
 

rmcrys

Posts: 296   +239
nVidia hubris is, IMO, what is wrong with the market!
There are still a lot of RTX 30 cards on most markets, as well as some AMD previous gen. I think the best thing would be some of them or, stretching the budget, the newest AMDs. Seeing what most of these cards can do and even an APU from consoles, I see little point going rtx 40.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 1,022   +1,881
Should I assume that if nvidia does drop the price, you will buy nvidia?

Better yet, lets say that they really lower the price to the same or less than AMD yet being slower, still will give them your money?

Personally, I will not given them a penny, since they have shown over and over how much they really care about gamers.
Oh yeah, you know it baby! I'm drooling all over Nvidia and their products. Oh, my! Give it to me, Nvidia! Yeah, cram those overpriced cards at me! 🙄

I wanted to go with AMD last round, but all those cards were just gobbled up by scalpers/miners and when they were available they were way overpriced, even more so than Nvidia's offerings.

I had funds for a 6800, could even stretch the funds for a 6800XT, but everyone remembers those days of no cards at MSRP unless you were really lucky at launch.

Once those AMD cards did become available the 6800 were pricing around $1200 and the 6800XT were upwards of $1500. Whereas the Nvidia counterparts were, while still overpriced, significantly less. The 3800s were around the $1100 range and the 3070s were pushing $900.

By the time I got my 3080 it only cost me around $800 after taxes and shipping, but the AMD cards were still in the $1200+ for the 6800 (which was almost impossible to come by) and $1500+ for the 6800XT.

I don't know why AMD prices were so much higher for so long, I just know I didn't have that kind of money and I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money. The only reason I even spent around $800 was due to my 980Ti starting to act up after 6 years of use. I needed something before the 980Ti would possibly fail on me. If it wasn't acting up, I would have waited longer and spent less on a new GPU. Such is life.
 
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NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,393   +2,960
Oh yeah, you know it baby! I'm drooling all over Nvidia and their products. Oh, my! Give it to me, Nvidia! Yeah, cram those overpriced cards at me! 🙄

I wanted to go with AMD last round, but all those cards were just gobbled up by scalpers/miners and when they were available they were way overpriced, even more so than Nvidia's offerings.

I had funds for a 6800, could even stretch the funds for a 6800XT, but everyone remembers those days of no cards at MSRP unless you were really lucky at launch.

Once those AMD cards did become available the 6800 were pricing around $1200 and the 6800XT were upwards of $1500. Whereas the Nvidia counterparts were, while still overpriced, significantly less. The 3800s were around the $1100 range and the 3070s were pushing $900.

By the time I got my 3080 it only cost me around $800 after taxes and shipping, but the AMD cards were still in the $1200+ for the 6800 (which was almost impossible to come by) and $1500+ for the 6800XT.

I don't know why AMD prices were so much higher for so long, I just know I didn't have that kind of money and I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money. The only reason I even spent around $800 was due to my 980Ti starting to act up after 6 years of use. I needed something before the 980Ti would possibly fail on me. If it wasn't acting up, I would have waited longer and spent less on a new GPU. Such is life.
Dont give Jense more ideas... :laughing:
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 1,393   +2,960
but the AMD cards were still in the $1200+ for the 6800 (which was almost impossible to come by) and $1500+ for the 6800XT.
I was lucky to be able to grab a 6900 XT at MSRP at AMD store. The only reason why I say lucky is because as you stated, the prices were simply ridiculous and I needed a replacement for my gtx 970 and really wanted to support AMD, especially after observing how Nvidia was selling to miners, then blaming them AND crippling their purchases.

Just one of the many nice things that nvidia has done to their our customers.

Now, I will repeat, these damned GPUs should be at tops US$800 and thats simply because things are indeed more expensive, but I am not happy with those prices, and Jensen can smoke a fat one for the stupid pricing of the 4090 and the previous ones.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,093   +3,985
TechSpot Elite
AMD did a favor to Nvidia with their lower pricing.
I don't understand what you're saying. Would it have been better if AMD didn't do that?
Now Nvidia can lower the price of this card and say that it's a reaction to the market and gain goodwill from some people, instead of having to admit that it was overpriced at $899 and that they were plain greedy.
Well, maybe... but I'm still glad that AMD is moving prices back to what is normal. By normal I mean the prices that were commonly seen between 1987 and 2017, not the exorbitant pricing of the last 4 years.
And then February 2024 we will get RTX 4070TiTi.
I like TiTis, do you like TiTis? :laughing:
Possibly priced between $600 and $900. What's that, $750?
Knowing nVidia, probably $899.
3090 $1500 9/2020-release -> 4090 $1600 (7% price increase)
3080 10GB $700 9/2020-release -> 4080 16GB $1200 (71% price increase)
3070 Ti $600 6/2021-release -> 4070 Ti

If the 4070 Ti is the original $900 they were going to ask for it before renaming it, it will be a 50% price increase.
And if they don't, then they're admitting that their pricing is crooked. Of course, they have enough mindless zombies to buy their stuff no matter what.
If AMD's cards come out and put the 4080 16GB and the now 4070Ti to shame, Nvidia may need to really drop pants, bend over and cut prices on them a lot. I'm hoping it happens that way. I can always hope.
Why would it matter? You could just buy the Radeon and tell nVidia to shove their cards where the sun don't shine like I've done for well over a decade. This is why I find nVidia's pricing to be 100% entertaining. Since I have zero interest in buying from a company like that, the only negative effect that their pricing has on me is when AMD follows their lead.

Fortunately, that only happened once and it resulted in some serious backlash. This isn't because AMD stuff is bad, it's because AMD's customers tend to hate nVidia's practices and react badly if/when AMD does something similar. It looks like they got the message though because the RX 7900 XTX is exactly what AMD customers want. Something efficient, easy to use, powerful and relatively inexpensive. That formula kept AMD alive during the dark decade of 2008-2017 because if AMD hadn't bought ATi, there would be no AMD today. During those years, Radeons sold well but the FX CPUs did not.
Should I assume that if nvidia does drop the price, you will buy nvidia?
I don't know if he's one of those people but people who do exactly that are a huge part of the problem. This is because they're as spineless as people can be. To be so critical of nVidia but so cowardly as to be afraid of owning a Radeon card is about as pathetic as a person can get.

I actually like the nVidia fanboys more than people like this. At least they OWN what they do and don't whine like babies hoping that AMD will make nVidia drop their prices. There is something somewhat respectable about that. I mean, sure, I think that they're guano-insane but at least they're pure about it. People who want AMD to bring nVidia's price down only to buy nVidia are the stupidest and most self-absorbed people in all of gamedom. It never once occurs to them that what they do would result in there being NOBODY to keep nVidia's prices in check if everyone was like them.

The easiest way to tell if a person is a scumbag is to think "If everyone did what they do, what would the end result be?" and nVidia having an absolute monopoly with prices through the roof would be that result.

I felt the same way when everyone was buying Intel and I had an FX-8350. The funny thing is that I wasn't suffering, I was happy with it. It gamed just great for the five years that I used it and for CA$170, it was an absolute bargain.
Better yet, lets say that they really lower the price to the same or less than AMD yet being slower, still will give them your money?
"Stupid is as stupid does sir!"
- Forrest Gump, 1994
Personally, I will not given them a penny, since they have shown over and over how much they really care about gamers.
Yup, that's what I learned when I worked at Tiger Direct which is why I haven't given them a penny since 2007.
I'd love to get an AMD card but my monitor is G sync and I'm locked in. Buying a new monitor doesn't make it cheaper for me. I'll wait till new year though hopefully with a little luck they will drop the price for their overpriced cards.
Well it wouldn't make it cheaper initially, but it would be cheaper in the long run if you didn't have to constantly shell out the nVidia-tax. I find that those G-Sync and FreeSync monitors are more hype than substance anyway because I've never used them and never had a problem. Truth be told, I game on my 55" 4K TV and it's fantastic. If I want to prevent screen-tearing, I just enable V-Sync and everything's good.
Ehh so now I'm confused. Apparently, it's down to a firmware update and this was the Dell support response to someone asking about my specific monitor.

"
From the start, the AW3418DW was marketed and sold as an Nvidia G-Sync monitor. We are not going to create a firmware for the Nvidia G-Sync scaler IC board making it an Nvidia G-Sync monitor with AMD FreeSync compatibility. This would take away from our potential sale of our dedicated Alienware AMD FreeSync/Nvidia G-Sync compatible monitors.
Well, they're a$$holes but at least they don't try to BS you with the reasoning behind it.
So I guess this is my last DELL monitor ever.
I would recommend that it be your last Dell/Alienware ANYTHING. Dell is the king of incompatibility and so I won't touch anything with their name on it. Brand-in-a-box PC makers are as crooked as nVidia, Intel or Apple with how they treat their customers and Dell is easily the worst. Not only is their hardware garbage but their customer s̶e̶r̶v̶I̶c̶e̶ practices are also terrible.

Steve Burke from Gamers Nexus had a few choice words for Dell:
And Alienware, being Dell, is no better (if not worse):
Dude, don't get a Dell!
This is a common problem with lots of older G-SYNC monitors; the vendors would prefer to sell you a new monitor, rather than go through the hassle of updating the firmware. It’s not just a Dell thing, unfortunately.
Yeah but Dell is still garbage. I wouldn't recommend their stuff to anyone I didn't hate.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,093   +3,985
TechSpot Elite
And thats why I avoid anything proprietary and even more if it comes from Nvidia.

Always and I mean ALWAYS, go for provider that uses open standards.
That's a fact. I'm the same way.
nVidia hubris is, IMO, what is wrong with the market!
Yeah but nVidia's hubris wouldn't amount to anything if there weren't people willing to sell their souls for video cards in green boxes.
Oh yeah, you know it baby! I'm drooling all over Nvidia and their products. Oh, my! Give it to me, Nvidia! Yeah, cram those overpriced cards at me! 🙄
PSSSTTT! You sound EXACTLY like JayzTwoCents circa 2016! :laughing:
I wanted to go with AMD last round, but all those cards were just gobbled up by scalpers/miners and when they were available they were way overpriced, even more so than Nvidia's offerings.
Nobody can blame anybody for the past two years. Things were so bad that it was a matter of whatever was in stock was what you bought or you ended up with nothing. It was even worse than the 2017 mining crisis. Good on you for at least seeing the bigger picture. Not everyone can and the reality we're living is proof of that.
I had funds for a 6800, could even stretch the funds for a 6800XT, but everyone remembers those days of no cards at MSRP unless you were really lucky at launch.
Oh yeah, there's no questioning that truth. Those were special circumstances indeed!
Once those AMD cards did become available the 6800 were pricing around $1200 and the 6800XT were upwards of $1500. Whereas the Nvidia counterparts were, while still overpriced, significantly less. The 3800s were around the $1100 range and the 3070s were pushing $900.
Wow, GeForce was cheaper than Radeon. I feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone.
By the time I got my 3080 it only cost me around $800 after taxes and shipping, but the AMD cards were still in the $1200+ for the 6800 (which was almost impossible to come by) and $1500+ for the 6800XT.
Well as far as I'm concerned, you made the right choice, no question!
I don't know why AMD prices were so much higher for so long, I just know I didn't have that kind of money and I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money.
I don't blame you. That's something that I would never have expected and I would've done the same thing.
The only reason I even spent around $800 was due to my 980Ti starting to act up after 6 years of use. I needed something before the 980Ti would possibly fail on me. If it wasn't acting up, I would have waited longer and spent less on a new GPU.
Man that sucks. Yeah, you never can tell when a card is going to expire so when it does, you're up Schitt's Creek. There was also no predicting that the Silicon Crisis would get so bad. It was literally a perfect storm with everything going wrong at once.
Such is life.
And then we die. (y) (Y)
I was lucky to be able to grab a 6900 XT at MSRP at AMD store. The only reason why I say lucky is because as you stated, the prices were simply ridiculous and I needed a replacement for my gtx 970 and really wanted to support AMD, especially after observing how Nvidia was selling to miners, then blaming them AND crippling their purchases.
And don't forget MSi trying to scalp their own nVidia products! :laughing:
Just one of the many nice things that nvidia has done to their our customers.
Yep. They're so nice that people keep going back!
Now, I will repeat, these damned GPUs should be at tops US$800 and thats simply because things are indeed more expensive, but I am not happy with those prices, and Jensen can smoke a fat one for the stupid pricing of the 4090 and the previous ones.
You know, I wouldn't be surprised if he was doing EXACTLY that! :laughing:
 

waclark

Posts: 707   +451
That concept is mainly done by extreme capitalism with no respect for buyers, so since countries apply rules on extrem cases.

But for the common buyer, having a brain is the best thing and that is what I meant: the best decision is to buy the right card for your money; not the one that is in fashion or the absolute best because of Freud-issues (which is usually the talk of "if I want to be cool and happy, I have to buy the fastest, biggest, meanest")
PT Barnum said "there's a sucker born every minute". You cannot fix stupid with any amount of laws or regulation.

Every person has a reason for buying whatever GPU, car, TV, computer, house or any other product. For some it's need (food, shelter etc). For others it's status. I don't see that it's up to us to judge people for their buying decisions.

I love how people condemn others because they have the means to buy a $2000 GPU. Who cares, if you have the cash, go for it. More power to you. Me, I could drop $2K on a GPU but it's not a priority and therefore I will go for a less expensive card.
 

rmcrys

Posts: 296   +239
Every person has a reason for buying whatever GPU, car, TV, computer, house or any other product. For some it's need (food, shelter etc). For others it's status. I don't see that it's up to us to judge people for their buying decisions.

I love how people condemn others because they have the means to buy a $2000 GPU. Who cares, if you have the cash, go for it.
It has nothing to do with condemn. It IS up to less stupid people to try to put some sense or rules, as history shows that those less stupid made laws, fair trade, hygiene measures, etc etc etc.. so that most things work on developed countries. If it's up to everyone (anarchism) you get chaos. If everyone that has that amount of cash or is able to ask for a credit (in Europe on most countries, even someone earning 800€/ month is able to ask for a small "quick" credit up to 1500-5000€, even if it's to buy a smartphone or GPU to play games) it doesn't mean they should do it; why? Those people have little common sense and act as their impulses make them to. It means they frequently:

- destabilize the market because they allow to increase the prices with no sense (that applies for everything, not only GPU s lol )

- they ask for credits they can't pay, so they will be homeless or needing social security help. On either case most middle class (usually more common sense, though it is not a rule) will have to pay more taxes, higher robbery and watch people asking for money/ help.

- not too long ago, banks went bankrupt because people they offered too much credits to people not being able to pay them. Result: people like me with bank savings lost their money. Now it's up to 100k assured but up then it wasn't.

So when I see everything too easy for those minds and anarchism-like opinions, I'm a bit too skeptical.
 

waclark

Posts: 707   +451
It has nothing to do with condemn. It IS up to less stupid people to try to put some sense or rules, as history shows that those less stupid made laws, fair trade, hygiene measures, etc etc etc.. so that most things work on developed countries. If it's up to everyone (anarchism) you get chaos. If everyone that has that amount of cash or is able to ask for a credit (in Europe on most countries, even someone earning 800€/ month is able to ask for a small "quick" credit up to 1500-5000€, even if it's to buy a smartphone or GPU to play games) it doesn't mean they should do it; why? Those people have little common sense and act as their impulses make them to. It means they frequently:
First, you're calling people "stupid", that is condemnation. Second, we're talking about gaming computers here, not the laws that govern society. If you want to talk stupid, how stupid is it to spend $1000-2000 on a "gaming" computer in the first place? Really stupid by your definition and examples below.

One could argue that it's stupid to spend that money on video games in the first place when you could use that money to say, help a less fortunate neighbor, learn a skill that would help you in your job, pay your rent, put food on your table. So, if you're spending money you don't have on frivolous things like gaming computers, then that's stupid.

But, I qualified my statement by saying "people who have the means...". You might say that people who have that kind of money aren't stupid at all because, well, they have a lot of disposable income.

- destabilize the market because they allow to increase the prices with no sense (that applies for everything, not only GPU s lol )
Was the GPU market destabilized? It may have become too expensive for you, but that doesn't mean it was destabilized. This is classic supply and demand. The demand was high, supply was low and prices went up. Pretty standard Econ 101. When the mining boom busted, well, guess what? Prices have come down. The economy, overall, has been impacted by many things as a result of Covid. Government shutdowns, supply chain shortages and more. That is what is destabilizing, not $2000 GPUs.
- they ask for credits they can't pay, so they will be homeless or needing social security help. On either case most middle class (usually more common sense, though it is not a rule) will have to pay more taxes, higher robbery and watch people asking for money/ help.
As I said, if you don't have the means, yeah it's stupid. But the same could be said of anything. Is the automobile market destabilized because there are cars that many people cannot afford? Porsches, Ferraris, Lamborghinis, and more.
- not too long ago, banks went bankrupt because people they offered too much credits to people not being able to pay them. Result: people like me with bank savings lost their money. Now it's up to 100k assured but up then it wasn't.
This is far more complicated than people taking loans they couldn't afford. In many cases, banks loaned more money than a house was worth and when the economy took a hit, people were under water. They lost their jobs and could no longer make house payments. The houses couldn't sell for the loan value because the loans were more than the value of the house in the fist place.

That was bad banking and in the US, somewhat fueled by the Government wanting to get low income people into homes they could not afford. It had nothing to do with the price of the home and everything to do with loans that were given.

In the US, bank deposits have been insured by the FDIC since 1934. Currently FDIC insured deposits are covered up to $250K. Are there any banks in trouble today because people took out loans for $2000 GPUs?
So when I see everything too easy for those minds and anarchism-like opinions, I'm a bit too skeptical.
Fair enough, but I don't think the GPU market is going to wreck the economy like the sub-prime loans did back in 2008. I think (some) people are just mad because they can no longer get the top-of-the-line GPU because it's priced out of their reach. You could say these people are stupid because they are demanding a GPU they don't even need. How many people really need a 4090 or even a 3090?
 

rmcrys

Posts: 296   +239
One could argue that it's stupid to spend that money on video games in the first place [...] who have the means...". You might say that people who have that kind of money aren't stupid at all because, well, they have a lot of disposable income.


Was the GPU market destabilized? It may have become too expensive for you, but that doesn't mean it was destabilized. This is classic supply and demand. [...] covid, government shutdowns,...
You're just distorting the meaning, so it makes no sense keep trying to make you come to a point.

About the second half of you post: pure capitalism talk. COVID nowadays is the "responsible" for everything that is convenient. The same answer so that higher prices can be justified
1) if companies didn't get greedy, production wouldn't be almost entirely in China or Asia, it didn't improve prices for costumers, just more money for the companies. What happens if there is a war, etc in China. Pants down rest of the world...

2) covid, etc etc: most things came to normal many time ago. And the war in Europe made prices go up why if nothing is being produced in Europe and China is even getting cheaper energy? covid... oh no inflation... but it's at 10% and most prices increased 30%...?!

3) GPU market is just a mirror of most markets: food, other electronics, energy, cars, houses...
 
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waclark

Posts: 707   +451
You're just distorting the meaning, so it makes no sense keep trying to make you come to a point.

About the second half of you post: pure capitalism talk. COVID nowadays is the "responsible" for everything that is convenient. The same answer so that higher prices can be justified
1) if companies didn't get greedy, production wouldn't be almost entirely in China or Asia, it didn't improve prices for costumers, just more money for the companies. What happens if there is a war, etc in China. Pants down rest of the world...

2) covid, etc etc: most things came to normal many time ago. And the war in Europe made prices go up why if nothing is being produced in Europe and China is even getting cheaper energy? covid... oh no inflation... but it's at 10% and most prices increased 30%...?!

3) GPU market is just a mirror of most markets: food, other electronics, energy, cars, houses...
Distorting the meaning? Do you know the meaning of destabilize? Here's the Cambridge definition


In what way were higher prices less "safe" or less "strong" for Nvidia? They sold everything they could make, at higher prices. That's kind of what businesses are supposed to do. It didn't destabilize the market, it did make it harder for people with less funds to get one. That is not destabilization.

If you think Covid didn't have an impact on the economy, world-wide, then there's little reason to continue this discussion. When businesses are shut down, when production is impacted, when ports are closed and ships cannot unload their cargo it will have an impact on prices. Covid is not responsible for "everything" and I never said it was. But to think that it didn't play a part is pure ignorance.
Sorry but you're wrong about off-shore production. If you think you can build GPUs cheaper in the US, I suggest you give it a try. There are many barriers to entry here in the US including labor costs, regulations, and taxation. Do you think all these major corporations can't figure that out?

You clearly have little understanding of economics and world markets. The war in the Ukraine impacted Europe and prices due to the fact that Europe depends on Russian oil. With the embargoes against Russia and countries not buying oil from Russia it definitely impacted prices. At least in Europe. And I'll remind you that while things are built in China and Asia, engineering also occurs in the US and Europe. Furthermore, products have to be shipped/trucked to the end consumer and any increases in fuel costs will be absorbed by increases in pricing. So any financial impacts in those parts of the world will impact pricing for products regardless of where they are built.

As to your last point, sorry but no, the GPU market is not a mirror of the food, housing, transportation or energy markets. Far from it. GPUs are a luxury for gamers. They are not necessities of life like food and shelter.
 

rmcrys

Posts: 296   +239
As to your last point, sorry but no, the GPU market is not a mirror of the food, housing, transportation or energy markets. Far from it. GPUs are a luxury for gamers. They are not necessities of life like food and shelter.
As I said, you know little about reality. A LOT of people have rather small and old houses, save on food and prefer to spend that money on brand clothes, electronics, gaming, smokes. I advise you to spend less on the keyboard and more on the streets observing. Reality vs. Theory.

I have somewhere in my backup photos from a study I made some years ago that show the reality: people with huge LCDs and sound systems, BMWs that live on very bad and not taking cared apartments, just because those "non essential " things are on their minds more important; I even have a close person that spends thousands on gaming + car but then has no money to grab a bite with friends or ask for a ride because he spent all his money and has no money for gas. Like him...a lot of people worldwide (in Asia I saw many people with huge high tech Smartphones, mobile data always on and nevertheless asking for money, riding very old motorcycles or cars, houses on a very bad shape...)
 

waclark

Posts: 707   +451
As I said, you know little about reality. A LOT of people have rather small and old houses, save on food and prefer to spend that money on brand clothes, electronics, gaming, smokes. I advise you to spend less on the keyboard and more on the streets observing. Reality vs. Theory.

I have somewhere in my backup photos from a study I made some years ago that show the reality: people with huge LCDs and sound systems, BMWs that live on very bad and not taking cared apartments, just because those "non essential " things are on their minds more important; I even have a close person that spends thousands on gaming + car but then has no money to grab a bite with friends or ask for a ride because he spent all his money and has no money for gas. Like him...a lot of people worldwide (in Asia I saw many people with huge high tech Smartphones, mobile data always on and nevertheless asking for money, riding very old motorcycles or cars, houses on a very bad shape...)
I clearly know more about reality than you. First, I never said people don't spend money foolishly. People strapped for cash buying large LCDs are not buying $2000 OLED TVs. They are buying $500 no-name crap or something on sale. The link below states

$400-500 is the most common price range for TVs bought in the US, and it’s in the $300-500 range where you can start to find larger (42″-55″ or so) screen sizes, more features, and often, higher resolutions (4K or Super HD, specifically.)

Secondly, your "friend" does not make a trend or indicate anything other than you have dumb friends. As I said in the beginning, "people who have the means". What part of that is confusing to you? Just because your friend doesn't want to go out to eat doesn't mean he doesn't have the means to pay for his BMW. Otherwise, it would be repossessed.

As for phones, I suspect for many people outside the US, the phone is their primary computer. I think you'll find that world-wide the average cost of a smartphone is a lot lower than you think. You'll also find that mobile plans are much cheaper outside the US as well. And, those people with smartphones, aren't buying $2000 GPUs.


 

wiyosaya

Posts: 8,269   +7,622
I don't know why AMD prices were so much higher for so long, I just know I didn't have that kind of money and I wasn't willing to spend that kind of money. The only reason I even spent around $800 was due to my 980Ti starting to act up after 6 years of use. I needed something before the 980Ti would possibly fail on me. If it wasn't acting up, I would have waited longer and spent less on a new GPU. Such is life.
I'm not speaking as a miner, but one who has run various @home calculation projects, and AMD has invariably outperformed NVidia in Compute tasks - mostly, as I understand it, because AMD never limited 32-bit compute like NVidia has. Perhaps this is one reason why AMD cards were over priced?
RDNA3 is going to mess up NVidia's price structure and marketing...
Competition is a good thing.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,093   +3,985
TechSpot Elite
I'm not speaking as a miner, but one who has run various @home calculation projects, and AMD has invariably outperformed NVidia in Compute tasks - mostly, as I understand it, because AMD never limited 32-bit compute like NVidia has. Perhaps this is one reason why AMD cards were over priced?
That was more the case with GCN than it is with RDNA. The reason that the market is so saturated with the GTX 1060 is the fact that its rival, the RX 580, was completely unavailable during the mining craze of 2017. The reason was that GCN was better at compute than anything that nVidia had WITH through the roof hash rates. There's also the fact that Polaris was GCN with the efficiency turned up to 11 which only made it better for mining.

RDNA isn't nearly as good at compute as GCN was because AMD split GCN into RDNA and CDNA. RDNA is Radeon and CDNA is Radeon Instinct. AMD had ATi focus their efforts on maximising gaming in Radeon and maximising compute in Instinct.
Competition is a good thing.
Only if it's healthy. Right now, the GPU market competition is anything but healthy and consumers are to blame for that. Their blissful ignorance will have a disastrous outcome.
 
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