Turkish crypto exchange CEO reportedly flees with assets worth $2 billion

fps4ever

Posts: 669   +875
Deflection seems to be the way to defend on this topic. So what about the hard drive problem? šŸŖ

Don't bother. Its the same as a bully stealing lunches...it's been ridiculously generalized to the point of, well humans steal ****. When the excuses get that bad you know its pointless.
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 12,740   +6,107
Banks are no longer a needed service, ever since crypto arrived.
No it is not. You sacrifice security. Which is not an option, unless you love gambling. Crypto has been a gamble since it's inception. And it will remain a gamble without standards and regulations implemented.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 610   +747
No it is not. You sacrifice security.
No you don't. You increase security, because after all, banks go bust, bank runs can happen, your fiat is being devalued by the second and so on and so on.

Which is not an option, unless you love gambling. Crypto has been a gamble since it's inception. And it will remain a gamble without standards and regulations implemented.
Alright. Keep believing that. When you realize that you're wrong, you will also realize that you missed the boat and have to now swim in water with sharks.
 

Strawman

Posts: 334   +207
Don't bother. Its the same as a bully stealing lunches...it's been ridiculously generalized to the point of, well humans steal ****. When the excuses get that bad you know its pointless.
So not only do you not know your logical fallacies, your analogies are also completely off topic.

The analogy would be, you saying "wow, your school must be so terrible since there is a bully stealing lunches in the cafeteria" and me pointing out that "every single school in the US has a bully stealing lunches in the cafeteria".

That's not a deflection. I'm accepting that either my school is indeed terrible, but so is every other school in which case your information is redundant, or your argument if flawed in its' very basis, and whether or not a school has bullies makes no difference regarding how good or bad that school is.

Let me try another approach. Your country is terrible to live in cause it has cars. Now whatever argument you come back with im going to disregard and characterize it as a random logical fallacy. I'll start with argumentum ad absurdum. Go
 

fps4ever

Posts: 669   +875
So not only do you not know your logical fallacies, your analogies are also completely off topic.

The analogy would be, you saying "wow, your school must be so terrible since there is a bully stealing lunches in the cafeteria" and me pointing out that "every single school in the US has a bully stealing lunches in the cafeteria".

That's not a deflection. I'm accepting that either my school is indeed terrible, but so is every other school in which case your information is redundant, or your argument if flawed in its' very basis, and whether or not a school has bullies makes no difference regarding how good or bad that school is.

Let me try another approach. Your country is terrible to live in cause it has cars. Now whatever argument you come back with im going to disregard and characterize it as a random logical fallacy. I'll start with argumentum ad absurdum. Go

You continually try and avoid the article/subject by using grammar to deflect the conversation like a little school teacher. I don't think you are as smart as you think you are. Nobody needs a lesson. If you want to discuss the continual theft of crypto money or this article lets go for it. Go ahead try it. Or we can wait for another article about stolen crypto. I'm sure there will be plenty more. If there is an article about some CEO/CFO who has stolen thousands of members bank accounts posted here I would be happy to discuss that as well.
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 12,740   +6,107
If you actually understood crypto, you wouldn't be saying this.
Digital degradation from software/hardware failures! Something only a select few are going to bother to maintain. More power to you if you are one of those people. You can't expect everyone else to do the same. They will continue to rely on someone else to do that as a service. There is no security in crypto as a service. That is one of the highlights in crypto because it is not yet regulated and monitored for foul play.
 

Geralt

Posts: 294   +354
TechSpot Elite
No you don't. You increase security, because after all, banks go bust, bank runs can happen, your fiat is being devalued by the second and so on and so on.


Alright. Keep believing that. When you realize that you're wrong, you will also realize that you missed the boat and have to now swim in water with sharks.
OMG, what will we do without crypto in the future? We are lost!
 

Strawman

Posts: 334   +207
You continually try and avoid the article/subject by using grammar to deflect the conversation like a little school teacher. I don't think you are as smart as you think you are. Nobody needs a lesson. If you want to discuss the continual theft of crypto money or this article lets go for it. Go ahead try it. Or we can wait for another article about stolen crypto. I'm sure there will be plenty more. If there is an article about some CEO/CFO who has stolen thousands of members bank accounts posted here I would be happy to discuss that as well.
First of all, my Mensa test disagrees with you, but that is irrelevant. Being smart doesn't make me right. Im just pointing out you are pointing fallacies where there are none.

What's there to discuss about continual theft of crypto money? What do you think is different to fiat? Thousands of cases of theft happening daily. If you don't want your stuff to be stolen, whether cryptos, fiat or whatever else valuable you might have, keep them under lock and key. Way easier to do that with cryptos btw than with anything else. Why? Cause you can have your own private key that nobody else knows and has access to.

If your argument is that cryptos are a good tool that frauds can use to take advantage of gullible / vulnerable people then sure, I might actually agree with you. So is for example email. Cant blame the tool though.

For me, trusting your money on an unknown exchange in Turkey is similar to just leaving your wallet on the street and expecting to find it the next day. You won't. Also, you wanna know what happened to people's fiat money that they had entrusted in a Cyprian bank? They got a horizontal cut. Basically if you had more than a certain amount of money you kissed them goodnight and there was nothing you could do about it. Was it illegal? No. Does it actually matter when it comes to the safety of your money? No.

Actually, the whole thing being LEGAL is what makes fiat money way less trustworthy than cryptos in my opinion.
 
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DaveBG

Posts: 558   +247
No it is not. You sacrifice security. Which is not an option, unless you love gambling. Crypto has been a gamble since it's inception. And it will remain a gamble without standards and regulations implemented.
That is the beauty of it. People like you want to regulate it. You want to ban it. You want to take taxes and commissions from me. Want to spread FUD about it but you cannot do anything and that drives you crazy. :) It is made exactly against people like you who want to stop it.
 

fps4ever

Posts: 669   +875
First of all, my Mensa test disagrees with you, but that is irrelevant. Being smart doesn't make me right. Im just pointing out you are pointing fallacies where there are none.

What's there to discuss about continual theft of crypto money? What do you think is different to fiat? Thousands of cases of theft happening daily. If you don't want your stuff to be stolen, whether cryptos, fiat or whatever else valuable you might have, keep them under lock and key. Way easier to do that with cryptos btw than with anything else. Why? Cause you can have your own private key that nobody else knows and has access to.

If your argument is that cryptos are a good tool that frauds can use to take advantage of gullible / vulnerable people then sure, I might actually agree with you. So is for example email. Cant blame the tool though.

For me, trusting your money on an unknown exchange in Turkey is similar to just leaving your wallet on the street and expecting to find it the next day. You won't. Also, you wanna know what happened to people's fiat money that they had entrusted in a Cyprian bank? They got a horizontal cut. Basically if you had more than a certain amount of money you kissed them goodnight and there was nothing you could do about it. Was it illegal? No. Does it actually matter when it comes to the safety of your money? No.

Actually, the whole thing being LEGAL is what makes fiat money way less trustworthy than cryptos in my opinion.

I pointed out what was different with crypto. If an article comes up where a bank CEO/CFO or the like walks off with actual members money/accounts and or without recourse of reimbursement or restitution let me know. Your Mensa membership has you working way too hard on this. No offense meant on that last part. Just pointing out a difference vs. today's banking system.

"Actually, the whole thing being LEGAL is what makes fiat money way less trustworthy than cryptos in my opinion."

Well that tells me a lot...without regulation and more controls I whole heartily disagree. But that defeats one of the major goals of crypto then.
 

Strawman

Posts: 334   +207
I pointed out what was different with crypto. If an article comes up where a bank CEO/CFO or the like walks off with actual members money/accounts and or without recourse of reimbursement or restitution let me know. Your Mensa membership has you working way too hard on this. No offense meant on that last part. Just pointing out a difference vs. today's banking system.

"Actually, the whole thing being LEGAL is what makes fiat money way less trustworthy than cryptos in my opinion."

Well that tells me a lot...without regulation and more controls I whole heartily disagree. But that defeats one of the major goals of crypto then.
There is no article about a CEO or a CFO of a crypto bank walking away with money either. These are not banks these are exchanges. Usually located in third world countries. Nothing like that will happen with kraken for example.

But again, all of that is irrelevant. Crypto is a tool, just like fiat. Its up to people on how to use it. There is nothing inherently more or less fraudulent about cryptos than there is about fiat.

I already gave you an example where a bank walked away with people's money, but legally. Is that better? Don't think so.
 

fps4ever

Posts: 669   +875
There is no article about a CEO or a CFO of a crypto bank walking away with money either. These are not banks these are exchanges. Usually located in third world countries. Nothing like that will happen with kraken for example.

But again, all of that is irrelevant. Crypto is a tool, just like fiat. Its up to people on how to use it. There is nothing inherently more or less fraudulent about cryptos than there is about fiat.

I already gave you an example where a bank walked away with people's money, but legally. Is that better? Don't think so.

An exchange acts like an bank in general terms where users can store wallets as well. Headline": Turkish crypto exchange CEO

But hey if they are not a "bank" then why are you using banks as an example? That makes exchanges even less secure doesn't it. My opinion is crypto is more fraudulent than fiat. Better, I don't think so.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 610   +747
An exchange acts like an bank in general terms where users can store wallets as well. Headline": Turkish crypto exchange CEO

But hey if they are not a "bank" then why are you using banks as an example? That makes exchanges even less secure doesn't it. My opinion is crypto is more fraudulent than fiat. Better, I don't think so.
Crypto exchanges are more similar to brokers (stock, forex, general financial ferms etc) than to banks. In light of that...;



So no. Crypto is not 'more fraudulent'. But obviously if you compare exchanges to wrong institutions like banks, you're going to get a skewed view of things.

It goes to show the lack of knowledge about money in the general population...
 

fps4ever

Posts: 669   +875
Crypto exchanges are more similar to brokers (stock, forex, general financial ferms etc) than to banks. In light of that...;



So no. Crypto is not 'more fraudulent'. But obviously if you compare exchanges to wrong institutions like banks, you're going to get a skewed view of things.

It goes to show the lack of knowledge about money in the general population...

LOL try again...I understand exchanges and how they act more as stock markets but do they hold your account balances/wallets as well? Yeah crypto has more opportunity to be more fraudulent. We can discuss it further during the next crypto theft article.

And the fact that I'm going to be retiring soon from making all that fiat money during my career while making a bundle in the stock markets means your doom and gloom except for crypto is full of a huge amount of crap. That is why you true believers are ridiculed.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 610   +747
LOL try again...I understand exchanges and how they act more as stock markets
Then why are you constantly comparing them to banks?

but do they hold your account balances/wallets as well?
How is that any different from any other stock broker out there? They are the ones that hold your stock.

Yeah crypto has more opportunity to be more fraudulent. We can discuss it further during the next crypto theft article.
Repeating something a lot does not make it true. And look how you conveniently ignored the article I posted, where just recently, someone, within the traditional financial system, did pretty much the exact same thing as the one with the crypto exchange. So tell me. How is the traditional financial system safer...?

Oh that's right. You're going to disregard everything to keep your beliefs.

And the fact that I'm going to be retiring soon from making all that fiat money during my career while making a bundle in the stock markets means your doom and gloom except for crypto is full of a huge amount of crap.
Do yourself a favor and make sure it doesn't end up as valuable as toilet paper.

That is why you true believers are ridiculed.
You can try to ridicule all you want. Time is on the side of the ones that understand the technology. Because, it is, after all, a technology.

I wonder what your reaction was when the internet and e-mail just came out.
 

fps4ever

Posts: 669   +875
Then why are you constantly comparing them to banks?


How is that any different from any other stock broker out there? They are the ones that hold your stock.


Repeating something a lot does not make it true. And look how you conveniently ignored the article I posted, where just recently, someone, within the traditional financial system, did pretty much the exact same thing as the one with the crypto exchange. So tell me. How is the traditional financial system safer...?

Oh that's right. You're going to disregard everything to keep your beliefs.


Do yourself a favor and make sure it doesn't end up as valuable as toilet paper.


You can try to ridicule all you want. Time is on the side of the ones that understand the technology. Because, it is, after all, a technology.

I wonder what your reaction was when the internet and e-mail just came out.

Because YOU true believers keep bringing up banks and theft as a deflection? And yeah, your posts makes me want to ridicule. Not that crypto might be the future in some sort of fashion but the gloom and doom of other currencies. As with Internet and email the collapse of fiat/stocks has long been predicted from people like you before those ever existed. And yet here we are.
 

Strawman

Posts: 334   +207
Because YOU true believers keep bringing up banks and theft as a deflection? And yeah, your posts makes me want to ridicule. Not that crypto might be the future in some sort of fashion but the gloom and doom of other currencies. As with Internet and email the collapse of fiat/stocks has long been predicted from people like you before those ever existed. And yet here we are.
You are really not making any point my dear man. To me you sound like someone having hate for cryptos for no particular reason whatsoever.

A stock exchange is a stock exchange. A stock exchange in Turkey is a really dangerous way of storing anything of value. Be it cryptos or fiat. I really don't see how it's more dangerous to deposit cryptos rather than fiat or a gold bar in a stock exchange in Turkey. Can you explain to me how that's the case?

Also, what about every single person that had money in a Cyprus bank? They all lost a huge percentage of their fiat money.

Let me repeat it, in simple terms. There is literally no safer thing than cryptos. NOBODY can access your wallet besides you. Banks can't do it, goverments can't do it, thieves can't do it. There are crypto smart contracts that make sure that even if someone steals your wallet they still can't do **** with it, but you can.

For me safety is putting X somewhere that nobody can have access to. You cannot do that with fiat. No matter where you put it, be it a bank, a stock exchange or your house, someone has or can get access, be it the bank itself, the goverment or just a random thief that breaks into your house.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 610   +747
Because YOU true believers keep bringing up banks and theft as a deflection?
Always blaming someone else for your own actions...

And yeah, your posts makes me want to ridicule.
Ah yes... I make you want to ridicule... Keep that narcissism going. For someone close to retirement, you sure lack self-control.

Not that crypto might be the future in some sort of fashion but the gloom and doom of other currencies.
The doom of fiat currencies is independent of crypto. Whether crypto exists or not, it will happen, and it will happen quickly, particularly for the US dollar. Crypto happens to be a good place to keep or increase your purchasing power.

As with Internet and email the collapse of fiat/stocks has long been predicted from people like you before those ever existed. And yet here we are.
That's a lie. Internet and email were never going to kill stocks and fiats, due the simple fact that the internet didn't tackle the financial system, but rather facilitates information transfer. But the internet still revolutionized multiple industries. The internet was and still is a threat to a lot of traditional industries.

Cable TV, renting of movies, buying movies, and even movie theaters have been largely replaced by streaming services.
Letters have been replaced by emails. The main institutions that still use letters are governments; the slowest organizations to adapt.
Shopping has been pretty much replaced by online shopping..
Even learning, universities etc are being replaced by the internet.

The list goes on and on. The most important part is automation.

Crypto is the next step, because it has digitized trust, meaning, trust is no longer required between parties, since it's embedded in the technology. You can choose to still use a middle man, but as of right now, no more middle-man is needed. Just like drones are going to deliver packages without needing a person to do it, crypto is going to replace people and institutions in a lot of industries, particularly in the financial sector.

Crypto is directly tackling the whole financial system, and that is why we are saying that it is a direct threat to banks. It will not be a threat to stocks, because companies will always exist. But the elitism is being squeezed out. You no longer need an approval of a broker to participate. The barrier to entry is not thousands of dollars. There is no longer a barrier to entry to pretty much any service.

There already are loaning services, insurance services, pension funds, decentralized exchanges (meaning without a CEO that can run away with the funds since nobody owns it), crypto pegged to gold and backed to actual physical gold, supply chain services... It goes as far as being able to rent out the free storage space on your computer hard drive, without the one renting the space being able to see what the renter has stored on it.

I bet you didn't know you can trade stocks on decentralized crypto platforms... NFTs also make copyright institutions obsolete. No more publishers for music, since musicians can publish their own music and get rewards directly, rather than everyone taking too large a piece of the pie. Your diploma for a degree can be issued with NFTs, meaning, no more fraudulent certificates.

And all this, is just scratching the surface.

But nobody is going to convince you anyway. And I'm not replying to convince you of anything. I am replying for the ones that are reading these posts, and think that your posts have any meaning. They don't, simply because it is quite clear that you do not understand crypto, and are spreading FUD based on your own biases. You might understand how the world used to work, but this digital age is completely different to what you can imagine.

Enjoy your retirement.
 

fps4ever

Posts: 669   +875
You are really not making any point my dear man. To me you sound like someone having hate for cryptos for no particular reason whatsoever.

A stock exchange is a stock exchange. A stock exchange in Turkey is a really dangerous way of storing anything of value. Be it cryptos or fiat. I really don't see how it's more dangerous to deposit cryptos rather than fiat or a gold bar in a stock exchange in Turkey. Can you explain to me how that's the case?

Also, what about every single person that had money in a Cyprus bank? They all lost a huge percentage of their fiat money.

Let me repeat it, in simple terms. There is literally no safer thing than cryptos. NOBODY can access your wallet besides you. Banks can't do it, goverments can't do it, thieves can't do it. There are crypto smart contracts that make sure that even if someone steals your wallet they still can't do **** with it, but you can.

For me safety is putting X somewhere that nobody can have access to. You cannot do that with fiat. No matter where you put it, be it a bank, a stock exchange or your house, someone has or can get access, be it the bank itself, the goverment or just a random thief that breaks into your house.

I don't hate cypto. It's their obnoxious fan boys more than anything. This thread is just more confirmation. Certainly not as much as you seem to hate fiat. The inherent fact that one can lose a "wallet" any time by hard drive cash, corruption, lost or stolen laptop/pc and are more prone to theft via hacking, etc. does not make it safer in my eyes. And confiscation of accounts/wallets is just as real and possible as freezing bank accounts. That false sense of security seems to be why we continue to have headline articles like this. But you do you.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 610   +747
I don't hate cypto. It's their obnoxious fan boys more than anything. This thread is just more confirmation. Certainly not as much as you seem to hate fiat.
We can also argue that you're a fiat fanboy. It's better if we simply don't go that name-calling route.

The inherent fact that one can lose a "wallet" any time by hard drive cash, corruption, lost or stolen laptop/pc and are more prone to theft via hacking, etc. does not make it safer in my eyes.
Yes. You can also lose your keys to your car. That's why you have a backup.
Your 'wallet' is not stored on the computer, any more than your email is stored on your computer. It's stored on the blockchain. It is your responsibility to keep access to your wallet, just like it's your responsibility to keep access to your own car, house, vault etc.
The options are there to keep your crypto safe, including paper and hardware wallets.

And confiscation of accounts/wallets is just as real and possible as freezing bank accounts.
Not really. No one can 'confiscate' your personal wallet, unless you do something stupid, like keeping large amounts of crypto on an exchange. By contrast, your credit card can be scammed by normal usage, and doing stupid things increases this already non-zero risk.

That false sense of security seems to be why we continue to have headline articles like this. But you do you.
This is true. But that's why people should educate themselves about crypto, just like one has to educate oneself about passwords for online accounts etc..