TechSpot

Editorial: Why Windows 8 Start Menu's Absence is Irrelevant

By Julio Franco
Jul 18, 2012
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  1. SamWagner

    SamWagner TS Rookie

    It should not take you a full second to make a simple mouse click....
     
  2. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,393   +1,587

    Microsoft Libraries, no matter how disorganized the drive, will point to your files. All you need to do is list each folder you want included (no matter where it is located hence the disorganization) within the library category properties. I prefer organization (everything in one location) and therefor not needing the library system (which points to multiple locations). I'm not quite sure how this would compare to the Start Screen.
     
  3. Zen

    Zen TechSpot Paladin Posts: 938   +44

    For the first time, I'm going to break with Microsoft rules and regulations that it sets forth upon it's certified engineers and I'm going to break my silence. Windows 8 to me is a piece of crap! I got my technicians copy, which is slightly different than this so called consumer review copy, and even with the technicians copy, from day one I was not impressed. I secured my computer science degree during the days when Windows 2000 Professional was king. Ever since then I based my loyalties upon Windows 2000 and as like Operating Systems. Windows 2000 was my platform, Windows XP was my love and Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit) was and still is my passion.

    This hunk of junk that is Windows 8 is a pile of stinky steaming pile of horse crap! Shame on the very company who grants me the right to be certified with them, shame on them for trying to play God with everyone! So the big billion dollar company seems to know what's best for the public at large! So Microsoft knows what Joe Blow Public sitting at home needs and or wants. So their going to ram Windows 8 down all of our throats and keep assuring us that it's what we need and want! Microsoft is going to try and fill out heads with double talk and propaganda that Windows 8 is our future, so we had better drop our death grip love on anything from the past, like Windows 2000, XP, Vista and Windows 7 and drop all of those and proclaim our loyalty to Windows 8, no, no, no, I don't think so!

    With testing the technicians copy for better part of a year, I personally am not going to buy into it and will not, no matter what the cost, I won't buy into a company nor an Operating System that try's to play God and presumes to tell us what is best for us and presumes to tell us all what we need, not taking into consideration of what we all want.

    My personal opinions here would be way different if Microsoft took the individual person into consideration when presenting and soon to be offering this Operating System in the "main stream"! It's not as if Microsoft hasn't been known in the past to offer the public several different variations of the same product. Microsoft Windows XP Home Premium, Windows XP Professional both (32-bit) and (64-bit) and Windows XP Media Center Edition, why stop there? Why deny the public a "choice" of what variant of an Operating System they want and choose to use? So Microsoft is hell bent on leather to pacify the tablet or pad crowd, why not have the best of both worlds? Microsoft would have made a killing if it had thought better than to play God and only offer up one variant of an Operating System.

    Think of the possibilities that Microsoft would have been facing if it didn't want the purposefulness demise of the desktop computer. I personally don't think that Microsoft wants to support the desktop computer any more. Now it's all about smart phones, iPhones, tablets and pad's they think all of that is the absolute future in regards to daily computing, I think their wrong!

    The desktop computer is what started it all! If not for the desktop and the continued success that Microsoft has prospered from, via the desktop computer, then they wouldn't be in the plush, cushy, cushy position they are today. If they think for one moment I'm going to trust my daily computing needs to something like a tablet or pad, that is pre-built for me, with me having no say so of what's indie it or how powerful it is, screw that, I like having a say so in regards to my systems that I choose to use. I like being able to enjoy the option of using a keyboard and mouse and not have to worry about dishing out a ton of coin with worrying about buying a touch screen and acting and pretending my desktop computer is some sort of a hybrid tablet or pad.

    I think I've said enough, I personally won't be buying Windows 8 and I never plan on using it for personal use. The only time I plan to touch the thing is if and when one of my "sucker' clients buys into it and puts it on their systems, and they call upon me to fix the damn thing, if and when it blows a head gasket.

    Microsoft could have been facing a virtual "gold mine" if they would have gone back to basic thinking, as they did with Windows XP and offered the public different variants of the same Operating System. Something like........"Desktop Edition"........"Touch Screen Edition"............"Pad Edition".............and "Tablet Edition"! If they would have done that, offer up different variants of the same thing I might be able to respect Microsoft. But to play God with people, I can't respect that!
     
  4. Marnomancer

    Marnomancer TS Booster Posts: 808   +51

    You said pretty much the same thing as I had in the W8:CP discussion. As I said, it needs work to get on the desktop - at least, my desktop.
     
  5. Det

    Det TS Rookie Posts: 84

    I fixed the title typo for you:
    "Windows 8: Why the Start Menu's Absence is Irrelevant to Matthew DeCarlo"
     
  6. otester

    otester TS Rookie Posts: 42

    Windows 8 is fail and so is TechSpot for promoting it.
     
  7. Techspot is trolling for webhits.
     
  8. dummybait

    dummybait TS Rookie Posts: 45

    ok.. all you ranting on about how metro sucks... I got a message for you.... DON'T USE IT. as far as the start button. theres ways of getting around it. do a search, and quit your bitc*ing
     
  9. Archean

    Archean TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,062   +77

    It is amusing to see some (not all) trying to counter argue without much merit or logic (e.g. accusing TS of trolling), which is wastage of time for all of us.

    Zen
    There is a reason that everyone wants to cash in on 'mobile platform pie', as that is where the world is heading right now, whether we like it or not. As I've said several times over, the paradigm of same UI is to make things easier for developers, which is very reasonable objective, in fact, I think it is the future, even Apple is heading in that direction but at a little slower pace. My guess is, that it is the 'radical' nature + 'fast' shifting from one UI to another which is 'work in progress' is causing this uproar. Another problem with Metro for many is 'lack of customization', which we all enjoy on the traditional desktop of Win7/Vista/XP etc.

    As for playing god, does Ferrari asks its customers what sort of a design they'd like for their next super car? The truth is, it is a business, they will make a business case for any decision 'on merits' and get on with it.

    Mathew & @Per
    I have been using desktops since 1980s, and notebooks for last 12 years or so. One thing I've noticed that, in the later period, I've started to venture away from desktop more and more, in fact I haven't even turned on my desktop since March/2012. I feel that, I may have made my last desktop purchase / up-gradation (although I hope it isn't the case). Amongst my circle this trend is nearly identical. So my suggestion is, why not you guys come up with a little research piece about these trends?

    Lastly, a little shock of reality, so called 'power users' (including myself) are a minority, the world is not run by us. If something works for 'normal users' it will sell in heaps, e.g. Android, it is an inefficient OS with a copycat UI of iOS, but because it means 'cheap' smartphones can be made for masses, it sells like hotcake.
     
    dummybait likes this.
  10. Teko03

    Teko03 TS Enthusiast Posts: 128   +30

    Start button still exists :) Look on the right!
     
  11. hood6558

    hood6558 TS Booster Posts: 292   +44

    It just hit me - looking at the screen shots of 7 & 8 - Win 7 and all previous versions are designed to read like a book (left to right, top to bottom), while the Metro interface is just random blobs of color in no particular order. Is this Microsoft's subtle way of making it easier for the functionally illiterate to use computers, opening up a hefty 20% market share? I was just reading that 20% of current high school grads are functionally illiterate, and a shocking 47% of Detroit adults. However, the one thing they can all do is play video games, once you show them which colored blob to click on. Just something to think about. To me, Metro makes it harder for the eye to find things, and I've been an avid reader all my life. So, while Microsoft is not wrong for doing this, it saddens me to be present at the decline and fall of the american culture.
     
     
  12. Start button? Why would a real power user even use it? In Win7, all regularly used programs should be pinned to the taskbar, which saves a click that all those faux power users are whining about.
     
  13. Wow... yet another "review" trying desperately to kiss M$'s ***

    Sorry.. but NO.. I've worked in IT for more years than I care to count.. and once again M$ is creating a steaming pile..

    They just don't learn.. and all the *** kissing in the world will not make the crap they spew any better.

    What really should get people mad though is what few fixes/improvements they are making will of course not be made available for Win7 etc etc.. of course in an effort to force upgrades once again.

    Oh and if you need a history lesson.... Win ME... Vista.. and now 8.. notice the pattern?
     
  14. FFinder

    FFinder TS Rookie

    Right..

    Now.. create on the desktop, a shortcut to a program

    by drag and drop from start.. like Win7 so easily done?

    IMPOSSIBLE..

    ff
     
  15. "The truth is, functionally speaking, Metro is basically identical to the Start menu"

    The truth is, functionally speaking, a train locomotive and a VW Microbus are functionally the same." After all, they both can haul stuff.

    The truth is, functionally speaking, a bottle rocket and the space shuttle are functinonally the same." After all, they both go up.

    The truth is, functionally speaking, a Turing Machine and an Intel I7 processor are same." After all, they are both Turing complete.


    The truth is, functionally speaking, a CP/M and Windows 7 are functionally the same. After all, they are both operating systems.

    Ok, ok, you've convinced me with your incisive logic, brilliant wit, rapier wit, and attacks on a very large group of analysts who know a hell of a lot more than you: Metro UI will be the most successful product in Microsoft history.

    I suggest you run out and load up on Microsoft stock. I, on the other hand, will be purchasing LEAP PUTS on Microsoft.
     
  16. Zilpha

    Zilpha TS Enthusiast Posts: 349

    I'm exactly where you are with this. To cite an example - I played FFXI for ten years of my life, and it's a traditional jRPG where abilities and items are in various lists. I never had a problem finding something, executing an ability, or finding this spell versus that. After I finally completed all the content there was at the time and got bored, I started playing WoW and later on Rift... And boy did I struggle. I struggled because abilities and items are pretty little pictures that all look the same (at least, to me). Just random blobs of color all over my screen. To overcome this, I ended up having to create macros for even single abilities because that then listed it in words across the colorful little box which was far easier for my brain to process.

    I had wondered if I was an ***** for not being able to react as quickly to press this yellow box versus that yellow box, but as I met more people in these games and compared them to the place I came from, I realized that somewhere along the way folks just stopped being literate and preferred clicking pictures.

    And why not? Who needs to know how to read when we can just click on a pretty picture to make the machine do what we want? Idiocracy was a prophecy. I am very afraid.
     
  17. Killer B

    Killer B TS Rookie

    Let's just be honest here.

    The reason Metro is being forced on the Desktop is because it's the easiest way Microsoft can sell their app store and try to catch up with Apple and Google. There's really no other reason to have Metro on the Desktop other than for that.

    To have Metro only on phones and tablets means Microsoft can't get much more market share. I mean how much share does Windows Phone have right now? Very little. That's the amount of market share Microsoft will have if Metro was only on tablets and phones. So yes, they're "Trojaning" it, much like Sony Trojan'd Blu-ray with the PlayStation 3 and sales suffered early on from the initial high costs.

    Is Metro usable on the Desktop? Sure it is, but many see it as change-for-the-sake-of-change, their inner hedonist kicks in and says "DERP DISCOMFORT! WHY I NEEDZ 2 RELEARNZ DIS?" People want the most amount of pleasure in life with the least amount of "pain," and relearning things = "pain."

    So yes, Microsoft is force-feeding Metro to everyone. If you don't want Windows 8, don't get it. If you want it, get it. Personally I like it, and I can adapt, but I understand that not everyone can (or will). Call me all the names you want (most common/lulz-worthy ones are "sheep" and "Microsoft employee")--let's let the market speak for itself and adapt from there. If Windows 8 is the steaming pile that computer geeks want it to be, then Microsoft will very likely pull a "Windows 7" and actually listen to feedback.
     
    Matthew likes this.
  18. I don't want a touch-centric UI shoved down my throat when I'm using the desktop. I don't want a screen plastered with tiles, I don't want a lock screen, and I sure don't want to do horizontal scrolling.

    If Microsoft thinks this deliberate leveraging of the Metro UI will help boost sales of Windows phones/tablets, then it has another thing coming!
     
  19. Metro UI = Toy OS
    Traditional Start Menu = Productive OS

    Windows is a massive democratic, millions of people use it and like it the way it is. People don't like change when it comes to something they rely on for daily use or work with productively. And frankly I don't see why it had to change to accommodate a medium that is almost utterly useless (I am referring to tablets and their lousy touch interface) Touch interface is the most limiting form of interaction with a desktop, its just not practical, you still need a keyboard. Now imagine having to move your hands from your keyboard to your screen when you want to click on something, or even better a world where the mouse and keyboard are gone all together. Oh wait you can't because its never going to happen. Just like me buying Windows 8, its never going to happen.
     
  20. ViperSniper2

    ViperSniper2 TS Rookie Posts: 49

    Nice article and a lot closer to what the Windows 8 Experience is aiming to give us. Start Applications all graphically displayed for you w/o searching through endless menus. It's like taking an express train instead of getting on and off a dozen exits just to get home. You can actually link anything you want on the Start screen this way and never run out of room and the more I use it the more I like it.

    Most humans are visually oriented and picture panels go a long way toward being easy to find than words in menus, where you have to go through an unrecognizable brand name in some cases to get where you can click to execute the program you're looking for. It's just so much more efficient to spread them out on one large screen that can be so easily managed by priority of use by simply dragging it to a place for easiest access! .....for me the whole experience has been great from the super fast secure boot to the using START as you would your desktop from now on!

    Although I still think that at some point Microsoft needs to break out a new file system, where Search actually works and put it in a panel on Start Screen. What happened to WinFS? I know the reason they didn't do a whole switcheroo on us was because WinFS meant absolutely no backwards compatibility. But at some point both Apple and Microsoft are going to have to make a complete break with the past, if they are going to ever fully modernize their Computer Systems. BeOS BFS was the envy of every tech company on the planet. It was also the basis of what WinFS was designed on. Where the entire system is Virtually sitting on top of a Database like File System for Instant Universal Search like only BeOS was ever able to fully implement and it needed absolutely no maintenance of directories and metadata. Because the system was LIVE and made changes directly at the time you made them.

    With NTFS... although it's a great file system it lacks database like Live Query ability. So they were going to do what Apple did in having Dominic Giampaolo design a virtual database file system for Spotlight to run on. Microsoft was going to do this with WinFS. So what happened? The two file systems didn't work together very well and the algorithms MS was using were extremely slow working across the transition from WinFS to NTFS. Plus like Apple they still had to do maintenance of directories and Meta data tapping profiles. But if they'd have changed completely to WinFS and then built a virtual NTFS sub file system in Vista or Windows 7, the hard part would be over and Windows would be a whole lot more searchable in true Universal Search fashion. Someday..... Microsoft is going to kick itself for not doing that in the first place. I could have put up with NTFS as a slower sub file system to give me what I want instantly on the WinFS system!

    Last point: For God's sake Microsoft...... put a Power button at the bottom of Charms Menu. There's just way too many clicks to reboot or shutdown the system. Changing users works just like it is with a right click on user to sign out or change. But that lack of a convenient and quick Power button irks the hell out of me! .....and it's such an easy fix!!!
     
  21. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,393   +1,587

    Yes but that won't happen until Microsoft has force fed a new idea. That seems to be the only way they will get a true response for the idea. Once the media hype has died down, only then will they know an idea is worth it or not. At this point Windows 8 is still not known to the masses and the idea is still limited to a select few.
     
  22. tanks

    tanks TS Rookie

    Well said. Ugliness arguments aside (which are still very solid lol) the start menu just made much better use of the space it does occupy.
     
    ViperSniper2 likes this.
  23. FFinder

    FFinder TS Rookie

    Windows 8 is an OVERBLOWN windows phone 7 on the desktop ? ! ? !

    Like this guy rightly claims:



    Microsoft STRIPPED Aero from Windows 7..
    took the rectangular tool in Windows PAINT
    and created Windows 8 METRO UI.. WOAA ! !

    This cartoony rectangular, flat, bland, boring,
    dull, big yawn, dry, monotonous, stale, blah,
    uninteresting, unimaginative, uninspiring
    waste of desktop space called METRO UI..
    >> that?s still in SAFE MODE <<
    ..will never.. EVER.. be more successful than VISTA..

    Those colors on tiles are just hideous..
    and a full screen Start menu????


    And Microsoft thinks that this..
    ..METRO UI >> Monstrosity << will compete
    against iOS AND OSX..
    REALLY Microsoft ? ? ! ! ! !

    I DARE you to take a look:

    tinyurl.com/6s5f72v

    Who would want to buy Windows 8 to gaze at
    HUGE Rectangles of ONE-COLOR tiles
    taking over their entire Start screen area
    rendering most of it useless.. ..
    no matter how live those tiles are?

    Metro is a just a WASTE OF SPACE ! ! ! !

    HUGE Rectangles of UGLY COLORS means..
    ..only AROUND 16 tiles on screen without scrolling.. maybe more..
    My Windows 7 can have around 200 Program Shortcuts on Desktop
    BEFORE ANY SCROLLING IS DONE..

    Metro UI is SO RESTRICTIVE.. IT?S LIKE A BRICK ! ! ! !
    (running windows 8 in VM Player)

    CANNOT turn on PC and go to [start] screen. Lock screen just JUMPS IN YOUR FACE ! !
    CANNOT bypass entering a password.. you are FORCED to enter a password..
    CANNOT change Metro?s scrolling to vertical.. mouse scroll wheels are not horizontal ! !
    CANNOT move tiles where YOU WANT THEM.. they just keep jumping upwards.. >>:^(
    CANNOT change a Tile?s image OR EVEN IT?S COLOR.. or make it smaller like an icon..
    CANNOT rename a Tile.. actually you may change ALMOST nothing of a Tile?s attributes..
    CANNOT change the background wallpaper.. good luck with default bg if u don?t like..
    CANNOT snap two Metro Internet Explorers to half screen each.. IMPOSSIBLE..
    CANNOT snap two different apps to half screen each.. one is pushed THIN to one side..
    CANNOT display ALL the windows I WANT on the screen all at the same time..
    CANNOT add OR access favorites to Metro Internet Explorer.. OR change homepage.. in fact..
    CANNOT change any settings in Metro I. Explorer.. must use control panel I.E. options..
    CANNOT close a Metro app easily.. must grab the app?s top and DRAG DOWN TO BOTTOM!!
    CANNOT find history of recently used files and programs..
    CANNOT organize [start] and [all apps] by moving apps inside folders so a jungle of tiles..
    CANNOT create shortcuts to Desktop by drag & drop from Metro Start Screen.. in fact..
    CANNOT create shortcuts to Desktop in ANY SIMPLE WAY at all ! !
    CANNOT remain in Desktop as it?s crippled IN FAVOR of Metro.. just try to find programs without Metro..
    CANNOT find [Shut down] to turn off computer the obvious way.. must click SETTINGS?!?!
    CANNOT disable the Metro UI if you don?t like it.. you are stuck with Metro..
    ..and more CANNOT?s that don?t remember right now..

    Want more proof that Windows 8 will be a worst failure than Vista?

    Only 3% of first time buyers..
    (IT and business professionals)
    will opt for Windows 8:

    http://tinyurl.com/7myv8cd

    http://www.businesswire.com/news/home/20120613005906/en/IDG-Connect-Research-Shows-44-Future-Tablet

    WAKE UP Microsoft ! ! ! !
    Your are competing against
    iOS and iOSX..

    ..not against Windows 1.0 ! !

    from a Windows 7 fanatic.

    ff

    I DARE you to take a look:

    tinyurl.com/6s5f72v

    https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-...AAABck/7U6NSIthUoI/s1303/win8is DULL ! ! .jpg

    ff
     
  24. dividebyzero

    dividebyzero trainee n00b Posts: 4,967   +738

    Example?
    ...still waiting
    Obviously not if you compare MS's slice of the OS market. $21.7bn income on $73.7bn revenue would suggest MS don't have clue 1 about what JBP wants. I'd assume that MS must have an inkling to what Joe/Zen Blow Public wants in at least one case:
    MS's market share would seem to indicate thus. If you think otherwise, why are you using Vista? Lose a bet? I recall Vista's launch and gestation wasn't plain sailing
    Windows 7 extended support runs until January 2020
    Vista extended support runs until November 2017
    XP's extended support runs until August 2014
    ...get the sandwich board ready, the End is Nigh...only eight years left!
    The four "play god" references certainly are.
    So (leaving aside your views of your clients), you view W8 as a "steaming pile" and likely "to blow a head gasket", which begs the question, why? The only thing you've offered up is that MS aren't diversifying the product line. I don't see ANYTHING in your post as to why W8 is operationally unsound
    If you stood by your convictions, you'd hand in your MS tin star wouldn't you? Hand your "sucker clients" over to someone else- there must be others in the area. If your locale is anything like other countries, "Microsoft Accedited" is somewhat easier to obtain than a taxi licence.

    BTW: As a "sucker", I'll be running W8 on one on my rigs. I'll run it because of it's performance characteristics and not the UI...the same reason that I purchase a car based on how well it drives and not how the dash looks.
     
  25. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TechSpot Paladin Posts: 6,393   +1,587

    But would you buy the car if it performs well but yet the shifter is located under the seat causing you extra time to shift? A shift in convenience seems to be the biggest issue with Windows 8, which effects some more than others.
     


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