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Torvalds blasts Nvidia over Linux support, gives them the middle finger during speech
Linus Torvalds, the driving force behind the Linux kernel, used a recent question and answer session hosted at the end of a speech at the Aalto Center for Entrepreneurship in Otaniemi, Finland to air his thoughts on Nvidia and its lack of Linux GPU driver support, leaving absolutely nothing to the imagination.
Update: Nvidia has responded to Linus' complaints over graphics support in Linux.
While taking questions from the audience, around the 48-minute mark in the video below, a woman explained the problems she had getting her laptop's Nvidia Optimus GPU to correctly work under Linux. "I was expecting that Nvidia would kind of chip in and do something [but] they said flat out 'no' they're not doing any support."
Asked what his thoughts on the matter were, Torvalds responded: "Nvidia has been one of the worst trouble spots we've had with hardware manufacturers. And that's really sad because Nvidia tries to sell a lot of chips into the Android market. And Nvidia has been the single worst company we've ever dealt with."
However, Torvalds -- who has a history of speaking his mind -- didn't stop at that. "So, Nvidia, f*** you," he stated whilst gesturing with his middle finger to the camera, much to the applause of the audience. "I think it's really sad when you sell hardware and use Linux and you are being really difficult about it. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying that other companies are perfect either."
His point is in reference to Nvidia's Tegra line, which runs on the Linux-based Android OS. Nvidia announced back in March that it would begin open-source support for Linux, but Torvalds' comments on Thursday would suggest things have improved little despite the public commitment to changing the situation.
Prior to this, the company had been so unwilling to provide assistance that the Linux community reverse-engineering its GPU drivers to provide an open source alternative that was less buggy for users of the OS.
User Comments: 51
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I'd just like to say that if I pay $300 for an nVidia graphics card and want to use linux, they should effing support linux.
Please list any features not available to Linux users when using a GF card...and no, [obvious example from the vid argued against]...Anyhow, I look forward to your list of Nvidia driver features denied Linux users
You say Nvidia aren't supporting Linux, whereas my stance is Nvidia choose where and how they support linux. The fact that Nvidia offer driver support (albeit proprietry) would bolster one of these arguments. Offhand I'd have to say that most (if not all) difference in functionality comes from the control panel (as is also the case for AMD's linux driver). As for Tegra, it sounds as though there must be at least a modicum of linux support:
[link] .I don't care were you saw it or when, you're just a person arguing with me on the internet.For someone who doesn't care you certainly devoted enough time and space to your faulty deductions:
I like how you had to go watch the video to see what I was talking about just to argue with me. Was it an hour well spent or did you just skip around to find the part where she said that?As an earlier poster said...cool story bro
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yRaz said:
You say Nvidia aren't supporting Linux, whereas my stance is Nvidia choose where and how they support linux. The fact that Nvidia offer driver support (albeit proprietry) would bolster one of these arguments. Offhand I'd have to say that most (if not all) difference in functionality comes from the control panel (as is also the case for AMD's linux driver). As for Tegra, it sounds as though there must be at least a modicum of linux support:For someone who doesn't care you certainly devoted enough time and space to your faulty deductions:
As an earlier poster said...cool story bro
To be more specific I was saying that if someone is willing to pay tons of money for a graphics card to use with their choice of operating system, then that company should support that operating system. I was also making fun of the people that think nVidia shouldn't make drivers for linux at all.
You made an ad hominem trying to discredit what I said by talking about how much time I spent arguing with you. It didn't take me long to reply if you're wondering. You made a straw man trying to continue arguing with me. You didn't even try to make me look wrong about what I said in my last comment. Why do you keep trying?
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Way to show his true colors. Looks like Nvidia made the right choice. Others soon to follow.
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what is it with all these uneducated people?
Linux has a place like any other OS has.
ios = for kids
microsoft = little technical
linux = extremely technical.
so by taking all of those in you should realise linux will always be the lesser in the global market, the majority of the world will never be extremely technical but that does not mean it will die out. Linux is known for its stability, which is why many techies prefer to work with a Linux environment, it doesn't get random errors, nor does it crash after being idle for a year.
In terms of stability:
Microsoft = most unstable
ios = occasionaly unstable, but not half as much as microsoft.
linux = extremely stable.
also linux makes the best servers because it doesnt utilize as much resources as other OS.
Linux is also the base system of nearly everything other then Microsoft. even ios is based off of linux.
so while Linux is not the poster child of Operating systems, it is the most important one of all of them. more development of Linux can lead to better products in the future.
the only reason why im not using linux on this pc is because I like to play games. the only sad thing about linux.
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The OS may be Open-Source, but remember the Hardware itself was purchased. The users are entirely within their rights to request for support for Linux Drivers.
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I love how no one pays any attention.
"His point is in reference to Nvidia's Tegra line, which runs on the Linux-based Android OS."
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PC nerd said:
Hopefully this will accelerate the death of Linux on the desktop. Yea I said it.Linux is one of the last truly free havens. Windows 7 and MacOSX are both heavily locked down and the internet is slowly being invaded by corporations.
Plus, most of the servers and super computers which keep the world moving run various forms of Linux/Unix.
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To be more specific I was saying that if someone is willing to pay tons of money for a graphics card to use with their choice of operating system, then that company should support that operating system. I was also making fun of the people that think nVidia shouldn't make drivers for linux at all.
This is the single most ignorant thing I think I have ever read on a forum, the consumer has the final choice. If your buying something that says "DESIGNED FOR WINDOWS 7" on the box and nowhere does it say anything about Linux and this is the operation system your using then simply don't buy it. It?s not a hard concept, if not your argument can apply to anything. It's sad when people think the product is designed to cater to them and them alone... It's alright, stop buying massively expensive Nvidia cards for your Linux box. NO ONE CARES.
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I don't get what all the wrangling is about, after all Linux is only Windows with a different skin on, so nVidia gear runs the same on anything.
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PC nerd said:I don't get what all the wrangling is about, after all Linux is only Windows with a different skin on, so nVidia gear runs the same on anything.
Seriously? Do you know anything at all about operating systems?
Windows and Linux are completely different.
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Seriously? Do you know anything at all about operating systems?
It's Techspot, you don't need to know anything at all to have an opinion - you just need to be able to read three words of a sentence and then rant and rave like an *****.
I expect it's all the same to them - brings in the traffic, etc...
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m4a4 said:
It's a good thing that when it comes to Linux, EVERYONE who bothers to use it knows there is very little to no official support for it and that not everything is guaranteed to work. And if you don't know that, why are you using it in the first place??
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PCNerd, you are mistaken, Windows and Linux ARE the same, they are just opposite ways round - you look at a Windows desktop from the other side of the screen, it is indistinguishable from Gnome (being as both were just dressed up versions of OSX aka Sinclair BASIC. Also to clear up another Linux misconception, it isn't a "free" operating system, that is a corruption of "three", which is the version of Windows you see if you go round the back. I hope that is all clear now; let's hear no more of this nonsense!
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PCNerd, you are mistaken, Windows and Linux ARE the sameLets judge a book by its cover, paying no attention to the differences in code within. If Windows and Linux was the same then there would be no need for Linux drivers because drivers for Windows would be an effective solution.
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yRaz said:This is the single most ignorant thing I think I have ever read on a forum, the consumer has the final choice. If your buying something that says "DESIGNED FOR WINDOWS 7" on the box and nowhere does it say anything about Linux and this is the operation system your using then simply don't buy it. It?s not a hard concept, if not your argument can apply to anything. It's sad when people think the product is designed to cater to them and them alone... It's alright, stop buying massively expensive Nvidia cards for your Linux box. NO ONE CARES.
I use Windows 7, haven't touched linux in years. There is a market for people who want to access the raw computational power in graphics cards. Folding@home is just one example. You can do that through linux but it shouldn't be this much of a pain. There are many people who like to do this kinda of thing. There is potentially millions of dollars out there for what ever company wants to grab it. If there is anyone who needs access to this kinda of power it's in the linux group. I'm not talking just about home applications or uses either. The people where he was speaking weren't neck beards looking to play videogames, they were developers and scientists.
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Linux is one of the last truly free havens. Windows 7 and MacOSX are both heavily locked down and the internet is slowly being invaded by corporations.
Plus, most of the servers and super computers which keep the world moving run various forms of Linux/Unix.
Oh please. All I got from your first sentence was, bla bla bla. Your second sentence is common knowledge, which is why I specifically said "on the desktop".
Linus has no right to tell nVIDIA what code to use for their drivers in a Linux environment, considering they are lucky to get working drivers from them at all and for as long as they have been getting them.
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I think you have a wrong idea of what open software is, a lot of us donante for the software we use, and we are asking for support for a video card we paid for.
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I think you have a wrong idea of what open software is, a lot of us donante for the software we use, and we are asking for support for a video card we paid for.
What do donations made to Linux have to do with nVIDIA revealing their driver code for Linux devs to rewrite it? You have nVIDIA driver support, it's just not to Linus' liking, and that's as they say, tough beans. Deal with it, or get a real OS.
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@dividebyzero
Dude, you need to chill down. I am not trying to start a flame war but from my humble experience, I can tell you that whatever Torvalds said - it is already overated or not important. C++ is a horrible language (may shock you, but when you know several other oop based languages it is impossible not to reach this conclusion). It was known for years - Torvalds doesn't win a novelty prize by that statement. DRM cannot be possible gaining friends no matter what the platform of the implementation is. You may like it, but I assure you the rest of us don't. OpenSUSE may suck - I don't know - as a long time GNU/Linux user I can speak about ubuntu - their choices regarding the security suck big time - also their so called approach to user friendly has brought them nothing but whiny users that run back to windows whenever batlefield or whatever crap don't run in Wine. Check their forums - you'll see a lot of "I thought Ubuntu would make me go to the moon but instead it doesn't run Crysis (whatever edition) at whatever fps number". It is normal in open source world - distros rise and fall.
Also - when you say recent experience - chose your words carefully - recent, in your definition means May 2011 - that is not recent experience dammit!
I don't see your point in Torvalds self promotion - I don't think an yt video made for an university should count - you're forgetting the small user base that desktop GNU/Linux based distros have - around 1 %. It is possible that many users from that tiny 1 % don't care about what Torvalds said (see the whiny reference above!). So, apart from a very very tiny population, nobody cares about what Torvalds says. Especially, given the fact that nobody likes rudeness. So again, what self promotion?
Whatever Torvalds said at the end of the video - IT WAS A JOKE DAMMIT! He doesn't offend people on a regular basis and he doesn't enjoy it! (Hint - nobody likes to work with a rude person).
Nvidia sucks big time. Even if Torvalds was wrong, you apparently forgot how nvidia treated its customers over the years.
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Ranger1st said:
Not for me, in fact I'm looking forwards to Steam's support of Linux in the near future as they are well aware of how badly win 8 is going to pancake in from 60,000 ft. This.. gesture.. of reality to Nvidia only increases my positive opinion of Linux.
Hopefully this will accelerate the death of Linux on the desktop. Yea I said it. -
...C++ is a horrible language....DRM cannot be...OpenSUSE may suck - I don't know
Missed the point. The point was that Torvalds has a prior record for grandstanding/being outspoken to draw attention to himself/Linux- NOT the subject of the rants
I don't see your point in Torvalds self promotion - I don't think an yt video made for an university should count - you're forgetting the small user base that desktop GNU/Linux based distros have - around 1 %.Exactly the point. Are you going to argue that Linus Torvolds -in a yt video - is suddenly not one of the biggest tech related stories on the net at the moment? Do you think that that the same yt video would have received even 1% of the coverage it has if Linus hadn't used an expletive or chav sign language ? 454000+ views for the full version in three days says you're wrong.
apart from a very very tiny population, nobody cares about what Torvalds says. Especially, given the fact that nobody likes rudeness. So again, what self promotion?This is the internet. Drop an F-bomb and flip the bird and you'll have a following in about 0.02 seconds- if that person is even remotely famous outside their own immediate family, you can guarantee that recognition follows...maybe not to the same degree as Keyboard Cat- but certainly a higher profile than they enjoyed before. Check it yourself...436,000 references -not too shabby!
So, if you're telling me that just as many people are familiar with the name Linus Torvolds today, as were familiar with him last month for instance, and I see half a million hits or more on YouTube (counting the numerous short versions)...I don't concur. And if more people are familiar with his name in the last three days -it's almost entirely down to two words and a gesture. Note that people who do this spontaneously generally don't look straight to camera whilst doing so.
Whatever Torvalds said at the end of the video - IT WAS A JOKE DAMMIT!So what. Are you telling me that people that joke on camera can't be self promoters, or use the media to elevate their profile ?
He doesn't offend people on a regular basis and he doesn't enjoy it!I like being outrageous some times....I like offending people because I think people who get offended should be offended -Linus Torvolds (from the video)(Hint - nobody likes to work with a rude person).Rubbish. A lot of people like working with a rude person- so long as the person being rude isn't directing it at you.
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What nonsense. Any hardware we purchase should have the driver support at least for major OSes and Linux IS a major OS after Windows and iOS.
From when hardware supposed to be OS dependent?? It should be other way around. Talking about a GPU (device drivers to be specific) with ?designed for Windows7' label on it is hilarious. What's next? A next gen CPU saying ?sorry. I'll run only Windows X'.
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Oh my! Very nice to see someone in a position of power tell us what they think w/o all that nasty political correctivness we have been forced to deal with. I say if your easily offended by sailor speak and gestures, you need to go back to your school marm life in the 1890s lol.
Its also good to see that finally some issues and concerns are being addressed. Cant wait to hear the other companies response.
Other companies response: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iW1Nff6jgjo
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Haven't had the chance to watch the video, but given that Nvidia can't get Optimus drivers to work properly on Windows laptops I can totally understand the frustration.
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Whatever you think of Linux or Nvidia, at the end of the day Linus Torvalds is no better than David Orcus.
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