A single Bitcoin is now worth more than... $23,000

Markoni35

Posts: 1,075   +442
Let's not forget that Bitcoin is not money. It's a commodity that you buy and sell, like stock shares. It quickly goes up and down. That makes it unsuitable to be money. Because money needs to be relatively stable. Only in ruined countries with ruined economy does the value of money change that abruptly.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 170   +94
Actually, every time the articles say that something is growing fast and you should buy, that's a signal you should sell. When they say "Gold is gonna go really high" that usually means it will drop. Every "financial advice" in biggest mainstream media is turned against the majority of population. But the majority of population is stupid enough to believe them. Serves them right.
Obviously, weak hands leave, smart money is just holding and buying. Same with any investment. Except what I was referring to is how many people say how bad it is yet they have no clue about it or their own currency. Why they stay off the positive articles.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 170   +94
As a currency, this isn't even usable for the masses. Could be wiped out by solar flare.
You obviously have no idea about your own currency.

If every one ran to the bank today and tried to withdraw their money, they couldn't, it would collapse the banking system. Only 10% of funds in the banks are in cash, the rest is debt.
 

OortCloud

Posts: 596   +454
And guess what the most used currency for that is! You guessed it, the American dollar, because it isn't on a public ledger.

Another no coiner with no idea.
It was estimated by somebody that knows a lot more about this than you do that $2.8 billion was laundered using bitcoin last year. Given the size of the pool compared to the size of the pool in dollars Illegal activity using Bitcoin dwarfs dollars by an order of magnitude in the millions. That is just laundering.... Of course dollars are going to be used more - there is so much more of them around and everybody knows what they are, but the percentage of bitcoins that go into illegal trade is staggering.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,334   +1,216
You obviously have no idea about your own currency. If every one ran to the bank today and tried to withdraw their money, they couldn't, it would collapse the banking system.
Your statement contains a basic misunderstanding of currency: you're confusing M0 (the monetary base: notes in circulation and reserve balances) with M1, or bank deposit balances. M1 is not currency.

Furthermore, to dispel a little FUD, in the bank run situation you describe, every single depositor would receive their balance in full -- as long as they have less than a quarter million on deposit in any single bank. If you have more than that and the bank collapses, you will still receive your pro-rata share of whatever the bank owns in debt obligations...though obviously in an economic crisis, that won't be a full 100%.
 

Markoni35

Posts: 1,075   +442
In case of BitCoin it's clear it's a hyperdeflatory commodity. That means, it makes sense to keep it and never sell it. Except maybe on special occasions. So... it's useless as money. It changes its value way too much.

Dollar may be totally fiat and fake, but still, it keeps its value relatively stable. It's slowly losing its value, due to inflation (aka generating money out of thin air) but among negative effects, this also has a positive effect of making people spend it rather than stashing it into socks. Which is good for economy.

And regarding the bank run...... well, guess what happens if people just decide one day that BitCoin is a bunch of hash codes and they won't use it for anything. It's value drops to zero. Because it's value is equally as fiat as dollar, but dollar at least has formidable commercial and military force that can protect its value.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 170   +94
Your statement contains a basic misunderstanding of currency: you're confusing M0 (the monetary base: notes in circulation and reserve balances) with M1, or bank deposit balances. M1 is not currency.

Furthermore, to dispel a little FUD, in the bank run situation you describe, every single depositor would receive their balance in full -- as long as they have less than a quarter million on deposit in any single bank. If you have more than that and the bank collapses, you will still receive your pro-rata share of whatever the bank owns in debt obligations...though obviously in an economic crisis, that won't be a full 100%.

I was responding to how it could be wiped out by solar flare. Guess what happens to the USD if that happens. Exactly the same, the only ones safe are the ones with cash, not that currency would be worth anything any more.

This is the thing, everyone keeps going on how BTC could collapse, but they are using examples that would also wipe out their own shitty FIAT currency.

Again, people need to wake up and realise BTC is here to stay and if you are against it, you are against freedom and obviously like getting taken for a ride by your banks and governments.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 170   +94
In case of BitCoin it's clear it's a hyperdeflatory commodity. That means, it makes sense to keep it and never sell it. Except maybe on special occasions. So... it's useless as money. It changes its value way too much.


You just described GOLD.

Also, you think a force can protect value in a currency?

Sounds like protection racketeering to me.
 

Karlos95

Posts: 170   +94
It was estimated by somebody that knows a lot more about this than you do that $2.8 billion was laundered using bitcoin last year. Given the size of the pool compared to the size of the pool in dollars Illegal activity using Bitcoin dwarfs dollars by an order of magnitude in the millions. That is just laundering.... Of course dollars are going to be used more - there is so much more of them around and everybody knows what they are, but the percentage of bitcoins that go into illegal trade is staggering.
The fact that you can see all this activity on a public ledger makes it that much better.

Guess how easy it is to launder cash without a trace, I can guarantee what is reported is only a tip of another big ice berg.

Again, why does it matter anyway? Criminal's will use any means necessary to launder the money, doesn't matter which currency.

So to say the currency in itself is bad because criminals can use it, well ****, may as well get rid of all currencies.

These arguments for why bitcoin is bad actually makes me think you people work for the gov and smashing out the same propaganda crap they try to instil into mainstream media, WAKE UP PEOPLE./
 

Markoni35

Posts: 1,075   +442
You just described GOLD.
Also, you think a force can protect value in a currency?
Sounds like protection racketeering to me.

As we witness for the last 100 years...... it can. Most of USD value is coming from oil. That's why it's called "petrodollar". The scheme is simple: You find a commodity that is necessary for the world to function, and which can be guarded from everyone else, and make it available only for your currency. Currently, that commodity is oil.

For example, if you go to 90% of the oil-rich countries and wanna buy tankers full of oil, you can only do it for US dollars. Because the regimes in those countries were either installed and instructed, or blackmailed, to only accept US dollars. You can't buy the oil for euros, pounds sterling, yens, yuans, etc. Just dollars. Which creates artificial demand for US dollar, which artificially increases its value.

So, what happens if someone starts selling oil for euros and yens, for example? Well, Saddam Hussein and Khadaffi were among those. And look what happened to them. Iraq, Libya, Egypt, Syria, are examples of countries which didn't respect the petrodollar monopoly. Either they were attacked by military, or the media called them "Axis of Evil" and imposed embargo on them (Venezuela, Russia, etc).

That's how currency becomes powerful by using force.

So, one could empower BitCoin by finding something that is essential for the world to function, and which can be easily controlled, and ask that such a commodity can only be paid in BitCoins. Instantly, demand for BitCoin would skyrocket, and so would its value. Then eventually it would probably stabilize. I hope this scenario will never happen, because it would be yet another racket. And the world already has plenty of that.
 

Endymio

Posts: 1,334   +1,216
The scheme is simple: You find a commodity that is necessary for the world to function [and] make it available only for your currency. Currently, that commodity is oil.... if you go to 90% of the oil-rich countries and wanna buy tankers full of oil, you can only do it for US dollars. Because the regimes in those countries were either installed and instructed, or blackmailed, to only accept US dollars.
Uh-oh, here comes the tinfoil hat again. The fact that oil is denominated in dollars on global markets does not mean that it must be purchased with dollars. And in fact nations such as Iraq only accept payment in euros for oil. Rather troubling for your theory in the nation the US most recently "toppled a regime", eh?

As for the "Petrodollar", allow me to quote from Forbes magazine a few years ago:

"We should be clear: the Petro-dollar does not exist, and really hasn't done in any meaningful way since the 1970s...."
 

Markoni35

Posts: 1,075   +442
fact nations such as Iraq only accept payment in euros for oil. Rather troubling

You should check the date of articles you're reading. Saddam decided in 2000 to switch from dollar to euro. A few other nations followed. Soon after that, all those nations were either attacked by US military, or had a foreign-organized coup which ruined the country and killed the president. Or were punished in other ways (such as embargo).

But Saudi Arabia and many other oil-rich dictatorships got away without a scratch. Even the "Arab spring" movement (which was actually foreign-organized coup) didn't touch them. Why? Because Saudi Arabia was selling oil exclusively for dollars.

Maybe you're a young kid who don't know how things work, or who can't remember events from 20 years ago. I personally remember all the events, and it was pretty clear what was going on.

Petrodollar still exists, but nowadays there are a few other things that influence its value, since it's clear that oil production is dropping and "CO2 movement" is trying to phase it out.