AMD or Intel for GeForce RTX 3080 Benchmarking: Is PCIe 4.0 a Factor?

[Adrian1976]

You know what makes me laugh with everyone and his dog rabbiting on about AMD, they forget you get shafted with motherboard prices, the little bit you've saved on the CPU had been eaten up and some and lost with the latest AMD chipset.

People don't mention this when reviewing AMD just price comparisons between the both.

I'm not a die hard blue but would still go intel if I was upgrading today simply because of the ridiculous prices of AMD motherboards.

 

[Shadowboxer]

It's advantage like anything badwidth related is about stress. It's likely the extra bandwidth would benefit ray tracing,dlss and 4k as the amount of data the chip needs increases as resolution and features add up. It's the same reason why in 2008 ddr2 and 3 looked the same but by 2010 you could tell phenom ii was hobbled by ddr2 and you needed am3 to get those most out of it.

To quote one of the best films of all time, "if you build it, they will come"

At the moment, a 2080ti runs the same on PCIe3 8X than it does at PCIe3 16X. So I don’t think increasing the bandwidth is going to help as these cards. Maybe for the new ones but today but we don’t know until they are out and tested.

 

[Hardware Geek]

"However, we’re getting beyond that with Horizon Zero Dawn and it looks like here the extra bandwidth PCIe 4.0 offers is helping to boost performance of a mid-range GPU, which is surprisingly to see.".

Surprising, not surprisingly

 

[fadingfool]

You know what makes me laugh with everyone and his dog rabbiting on about AMD, they forget you get shafted with motherboard prices, the little bit you've saved on the CPU had been eaten up and some and lost with the latest AMD chipset.

People don't mention this when reviewing AMD just price comparisons between the both.

I'm not a die hard blue but would still go intel if I was upgrading today simply because of the ridiculous prices of AMD motherboards.

Are you comparing like with like? The budget A520 boards from AMD have only just been announced. You also need to check the capabilities as the PCIe support on the lower end intel chipsets is poor plus artificial limits on the memory speeds. The current high prices of AMD motherboards are also a reflection of their popularity.

 

[Adrian1976]

Are you comparing like with like? The budget A520 boards from AMD have only just been announced. You also need to check the capabilities as the PCIe support on the lower end intel chipsets is poor plus artificial limits on the memory speeds. The current high prices of AMD motherboards are also a reflection of their popularity.

I'm comparing what most people would do, if you bought a high end CPU you want the most high end and latest chipset motherboard to couple with it not a budget board, it just makes no sense the prices of the AMD chipset boards, it's actually more expensive for a top end AMD setup, a lot of folk fail to see this.

Ok Intel doesn't have pcie 4.0 at the moment but let's be honest have we seen any benefit of that whatsoever other than a ridiculously priced pcie 4.0 storage device.

Nothing takes advantage of it as yet and until figures are produced imo it's a complete waste of money purchasing an enthusiast AMD board for it to have no benefit.

Just my 2 cents but it's true, it cost my brother £150 more for the same equivalent Rog maximus hero board I have on my Intel setup.

 

[Irata]

You know what makes me laugh with everyone and his dog rabbiting on about AMD, they forget you get shafted with motherboard prices, the little bit you've saved on the CPU had been eaten up and some and lost with the latest AMD chipset.

People don't mention this when reviewing AMD just price comparisons between the both.

I'm not a die hard blue but would still go intel if I was upgrading today simply because of the ridiculous prices of AMD motherboards.

Well, for most AMD CPU you also save on the HSF which is perfectly useable and included.

As for motherboards, how do you get shafted ? You can still get cheap boards, but - and imho this is a good thing - there are now also premium quality boards at higher prices.

Checking Mindfactory, the cheapest AM 4 board starts at € 40 (A320), the cheapest B450 model starts at €55, A520 at €60, B550 at €110 , X570 at € 145.

Looking at Intel‘s current socket (1200), I have the following starting prices:

H410 at € 54, B460 at €67, H470 at €92 and Z490 at €120.

Comparing specific models, the Aorus Extreme for socket 1200 costs € 738, for AM4 €699.
MSI Tomahawk: Z490 is € 172 (no Wifi), X570 is € 195 (including Wifi) and B550 is €162 (no Wifi)

So how exactly are you being shafted with AMD mainboards ?

 

[tygrus]

When does it need PCIe bandwidth? and what kind of data?
If it's the textures then having large GPU RAM can avoid a lot of it. What's the scaling going from equivalent x16 to x8 to x4 to x1? Are certain games or apps more sensitive to PCIe bandwidth?

Pick the AMD, same processor, GPU with less RAM, test with the full PCIe4 x16 and then with PCIe3 and smaller.

 

[candle_86]

Are you comparing like with like? The budget A520 boards from AMD have only just been announced. You also need to check the capabilities as the PCIe support on the lower end intel chipsets is poor plus artificial limits on the memory speeds. The current high prices of AMD motherboards are also a reflection of their popularity.

Not to mention the boards are more complex to support pcie4 signals, Intel's boards will go up in cost once they start supporting pcie4.

 

[Irata]

Not to mention the boards are more complex to support pcie4 signals, Intel's boards will go up in cost once they start supporting pcie4.

Some of the higher end ones already might, but only on the B550 level at best.

But yes, that‘s definitely a good point.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Some of the higher end ones already might, but only on the B550 level at best.

But yes, that‘s definitely a good point.

Some of the Z490 boards already have PCIe4. So I can’t see the cost going up too much.

PCIe 4.0 support from Gigabyte's Z490 boards makes zero sense

Buy a motherboard today for the CPU of tomorrow?

www.google.co.uk

 

[Irata]

Some of the Z490 boards already have PCIe4. So I can’t see the cost going up too much.

PCIe 4.0 support from Gigabyte's Z490 boards makes zero sense

Buy a motherboard today for the CPU of tomorrow?

www.google.co.uk

Like I said, probably the more basic variant that B550 has.

Is PCIe support guaranteed on any of those boards though ?

Looking at board descriptions, the cheapest Z490 Aorus (Elite) only lists „PCIe 4 hardware design (for the PCIe slots) and you actually have to go to more expensive models like the Aorus Ultra to actually have it say „PCIe 4.0 slot and nVME“ plus list all the hardware.

Sounds like it will be fun determining which Z490 board supports PCIe 4 and which does not.

Either way, so much for „AMD mainboards are so expensive“....

 

[Shadowboxer]

Like I said, probably the more basic variant that B550 has.

Is PCIe support guaranteed on any of those boards though ?

Looking at board descriptions, the cheapest Z490 Aorus (Elite) only lists „PCIe 4 hardware design (for the PCIe slots) and you actually have to go to more expensive models like the Aorus Ultra to actually have it say „PCIe 4.0 slot and nVME“ plus list all the hardware.

Sounds like it will be fun determining which Z490 board supports PCIe 4 and which does not.

Either way, so much for „AMD mainboards are so expensive“....

I find that AMDs boards are more expensive than Intel’s. At least when comparing X570 to Z490. The prices fluctuate, around a month ago the ROG Strix X570 was £310 and the ROG strix Z490 was £260, meaning the difference was bigger than the price difference between a 10700K and a 3700X. However since then the 10700K has gone back up in price and the ROG strix X570 has fallen to £280. It’s still more expensive than Z490 but not by much. So there can be times where CPU + MOBO is more expensive on AMD if you’re comparing X570 and Z490. Of course the cooler is factored in, you don’t get one with Intel. However it has the same mounts as previous Intel sockets so the chances are you probably already have one you could use anyway, I do and I wouldn’t be happy with AMDs mediocre stock cooler so for me I’d need a cooler for AMD and could use my current NHD15 on a new Intel board. We all have individual considerations when it comes to upgrading.

The midrange is where AMD has value, get a 3600 and a B450 board and you get a lot more for your money, I think this is the best way to go for most people.

Either way, I don’t think we can expect a price hike on Intel boards when it gets PCIe4 as some have it already. Also, I think price is more attached to supply and demand, I’m willing to bet that X570 is a lot more popular so with higher demand comes higher prices, as is the way of everything.

 

[Adhmuz]

Save yourself a whole lot of time and before committing to one test platform or the other go into the AMD boards BIOS and force the GPU's PCIE slot to run at 3.0, run some test, then switch it back to PCIE 4.0 and do the same test. If no change in frame rates occur you have your answer and PCIE 4.0 for GPUs is totally pointless and you can rule that out as a limitation on the Intel platform.

My suspicion is it will be nominal if there even is a difference. Especially if current top tier cards aren't bandwidth starved running at PCIE 3.0 8x speeds. I would still like to see this test done if that's worth anything.

Also I would like the benchmarks to reflect the best possible performance for any upcoming GPU regardless of platform being used, if AMD allows the card to run fastest in 4K, use AMD. But it would still be nice to see benchmarks done at 1080p to see just how fast the card can render frames at, if this required an Intel platform then so be it.

Simply put, I could careless what platform is used, as long as the GPU runs as fast as it possibly can.

 

[Irata]

I find that AMDs boards are more expensive than Intel’s. At least when comparing X570 to Z490. The prices fluctuate, around a month ago the ROG Strix X570 was £310 and the ROG strix Z490 was £260

A better comparison would be between B550 and Z490 as X570 is definitely a tier above both.

Checking Newegg, I find the following:
Z490 Rog Strix is between $299 and $ 259 depending on series.
B550 Rog Strix is between $ 279 and $ 189 depending on series
X570 ROG Strix is between $299 and $ 243 depending on series
Looked only at items sold by Newegg.

In all cases, you can find a cheaper option for AMD, worst case it has the same price.

 

[Shadowboxer]

A better comparison would be between B550 and Z490 as X570 is definitely a tier above both.

Checking Newegg, I find the following:
Z490 Rog Strix is between $299 and $ 259 depending on series.
B550 Rog Strix is between $ 279 and $ 189 depending on series
X570 ROG Strix is between $299 and $ 243 depending on series
Looked only at items sold by Newegg.

In all cases, you can find a cheaper option for AMD, worst case it has the same price.

Definitely not. The Z series Intel boards are far closer the X570 than B550.

AMD X570 vs. Intel Z390 Chipset: Which Mainstream Platform Is Better?

We’ve pitted AMD’s X470 chipset against Intel’s Z390 in the past. Now that AMD’s Ryzen 3000 CPUs have arrived, alongside a new X570, it’s time for a chipset rematch.

www.google.co.uk

This article compares the Z390 to the X570 and its pretty even. It’s just not accurate to say the B550 is the Z490 equivalent.

 

[Irata]

Definitely not. The Z series Intel boards are far closer the X570 than B550.

AMD X570 vs. Intel Z390 Chipset: Which Mainstream Platform Is Better?

We’ve pitted AMD’s X470 chipset against Intel’s Z390 in the past. Now that AMD’s Ryzen 3000 CPUs have arrived, alongside a new X570, it’s time for a chipset rematch.

www.google.co.uk

This article compares the Z390 to the X570 and its pretty even. It’s just not accurate to say the B550 is the Z490 equivalent.

I‘d say it is, as from an IO perspective and technology X570 is in a different league.

And yes, even if Z490 offers tons of PCIe lanes and connections, they all go via the DMI 3 link, so 4 PCIe 3 lanes.

X570 is fully PCIe 4 with a wider connection to the CPU (that already supports more IO than it‘s Intel counterpart).

B550 seems like a more appropriate comparison, but as is, even to X570 there is no price advantage the one generation behind Z490.

 

[Decoy]

Sure, <10%

https://imgur.com/oleSHWh

HZD, the amd "optimized", I mean gimped title

https://imgur.com/RkK80pd

AMD is a massive bottleneck in plenty of games maybe watch someone doing proper reviews like GamersNexus.


Performance of amd hasn't changed almost at all over the time, if anything, it decreased due to less aggressive bioses and lower voltages after reviews. So please, spare of this fine wine conspiracy, it has been debunked 100 times that the performance of AMD cards do not increase in the older titles and it is the same compared to Nvidia. It is just Nvidia releasing a new arch unlike AMD, which was rebranding and introducing refreshes after refreshes in the past, 480rx got rebranded 3 times - 480rx, 580rx, 590x. Look how Vega performs terribly in new games, slower than 1060gtx, so fine wine got busted.

Techpower up has 3900xt, 3600xt and 3800xt reviews up, they used the bios AMD had told them to use.

Any other excuses of yours I shall address?

You're telling me you game with the exact settings that Gamers Nexus uses for CPU benches? We get it, Total War isn't optimized to use multiple cores. You're beating a dead horse. The article you're commenting on shows very clearly an average 5% delta at 1080p, a resolution nobody in their right mind would play at with a 2080 Ti. If the difference was any smaller, you'd be begging for 720p or 480p benchmarks. Go ahead and cherry pick some more benchmarks, please, that's all you've done so far.

 

[Roddy_K]

Your affiliate link for the 10900K is $869 for a CPU that has a suggested retail of $499. Wow really!!!

 

[Oldm8]

Heres a suggestion, hows about you wait 3 to 4 months, build a Zen 3 rig and blow that old, out of date, overpriced, heatsoaking, power hungry, ancient technologically inferior 14nm+++++++ shoulda and coulda been on 10nm with 16 cores 5 years ago as promised but sat on my arse with 14nm, 4 cores, ripped everyone off and held the computer technology race back 8 years because they had no competiton, Relic-Lake Intel nugget out of the water.

How can anyone even think to support Intel after they have literally made a complete joke out of the CPU market for the past decade, deliberately used illegal monopolistic tactics to send their competitors nearly broke and actually had their arses sued in Europe and lost. Anyone here that calls themselves a computing enthusiast and actually still supports Intel is a complete and utter traitor to all other enthusiasts alike. They are actually supporting criminals that have stagnated the total computing world for years. Just when intel thought they had finally beaten AMD , out from the ashes AMD rose from the brink of total collapse and gave us Ryzen and from nearly a dollar a market Share at the time, now has put Intel on the ropes and exposed them for their technological incompetence and now Intel is the joke. Just look at Share prices now.

People complaining about the prices of AMD chipsets should realise, if you had of bought an Zen 1 cpu when it was released instead of a 6700k 4 core nugget, you could be using a 3900x with that 3 year old AM4 chipset, yet you find excuses and reasons to bag AMD because their top of the line chipsets with PCI 4.0 tech are more expensive, might I remind you how much you Intel fans would have spent on chipsets every time Intel updated their CPU line with 5.0% performance increases because their old chipsets weren't compatible with new chips. AM4 has been around since 2017.

But sure go buy your 10900k, 300 W pie warmer. If it wasn't for AMD, you would still be on Pentium 4 performance with no Hyperthreading, because guess what Intel was forced to devolope Hyperthreading because AMD kicked their asses into gear, just like they did back in 2017 with Ryzen only now Intel doesn't have anymore answers, just higher clocks and more power consumption, just like when the Pentium 4 was cained by AMD 64, oh 64bit another AMD innovation, do you get my point now?

Make the right choice people, it's AMDs time now and Nvidia is next, although Nvidia is as corrupt as Intel, Nvidia is not as stupid and they wont be as much of push over as Intel. but they will find out it's not the size if the dog that wins fights, but the size of the fight in the dog.

Make the right choice, do what's best for innovation, or be stuck in the past, with technological progression locked in place by greed.

 

[dad0ts]

It seems HZD is the only pc title where pci-e 2.0/3.0 or 8x/16x change is visible. Going 2.0->3.0 adds 2-3 fps at 1440p for me. So the same maybe for 3.0 -> 4.0. All other titles are not so sensitive to pci-e mode, so I guess 4.0 is not important for GPU right now. For SSD the 4.0 may be more useful in theory...

 

[HardReset]

Definitely not. The Z series Intel boards are far closer the X570 than B550.

AMD X570 vs. Intel Z390 Chipset: Which Mainstream Platform Is Better?

We’ve pitted AMD’s X470 chipset against Intel’s Z390 in the past. Now that AMD’s Ryzen 3000 CPUs have arrived, alongside a new X570, it’s time for a chipset rematch.

www.google.co.uk

This article compares the Z390 to the X570 and its pretty even. It’s just not accurate to say the B550 is the Z490 equivalent.

No, they are not. That article is just another Intel fanboy made. Let's see:

I/O Interfaces

Winner: Tie

AMD has: 24 PCIe 4.0 lanes
Bus between chipset and CPU is PCIe 4.0 x4
Additionally, AMD has PCIe 4.0 x4 from CPU plus USB 3.1*2 from CPU

Intel has: 16 PCIe 3.0 lanes
Bus between chipset and CPU is PCIe 4.0 x3

And that is supposed to be tie? One of stupidest articles I have read ever.

Z490 has no match for even X370 that is 3 years old

 

[Strawman]

Go AMD, Intel may be a few precent faster but AMD is the best overall at any price range if you do anything else with your computer, Intel is only if you treat your computer like a console.

So a guy with a 10900k treats his computer like a console but someone with a 3300x or a 3600 doesn't? How does that make any sense to you?

 

[Squid Surprise]

So a guy with a 10900k treats his computer like a console but someone with a 3300x or a 3600 doesn't? How does that make any sense to you?

How does your comment even make sense?!?
The 10900 doesn’t compete with the 3300 or 3600.... It exists solely to get the best gaming performance possible - hence the “treat it like a console” comment.
The point, I believe, is that AMD CPUs do everything else better than Intel - and game only a bit worse...

 

[RealMoses1]

Go AMD, Intel may be a few precent faster but AMD is the best overall at any price range if you do anything else with your computer, Intel is only if you treat your computer like a console.

I don't know about that, AMD is great as a pricing option but for best stability being part of the performance equation, Intel is still better in my mind. AMD isn't horrible but there are more compatibility issues. I personally rarely play games and still prefer Intel. I do need AMD to continue making faster hardware to keep intel and nvidia pricing in check. You can call me a fan boy whatever, I don't care, I just find intel easier to find hardware and less issues. But AMD is definitely a better purchase if you can deal with the inconveniences of them.

 

[Squid Surprise]

I don't know about that, AMD is great as a pricing option but for best stability being part of the performance equation, Intel is still better in my mind. AMD isn't horrible but there are more compatibility issues. I personally rarely play games and still prefer Intel. I do need AMD to continue making faster hardware to keep intel and nvidia pricing in check. You can call me a fan boy whatever, I don't care, I just find intel easier to find hardware and less issues. But AMD is definitely a better purchase if you can deal with the inconveniences of them.

What compatibility issues can you have with an AMD CPU?
Other than the motherboard, you don’t need any other different components than you would for an Intel CPU....