AMD reveals Radeon 6000 "Big Navi" design

[Aryassen]

Yes I have.
put them both on a test bench and test noise the blower fan is about 15 DB louder.
But put them both in a case its only 5 db louder.
See the fan speed on the 3 fan increases so closing the gap.

example

No such problem using a blower fan gpu
(I rest my case)
proven move along.
(NEXT)

Sorry, that video only shows that a high-end system, pulling over 500 watts, can get noisy. We don't know how much of that was caused by system fans, or the radiator fans, or the GPU fans.

On the other hand, I also have first hand impressions with blower type reference cards: I have "upgraded" my HD 5850 (single fan Sapphire) to an HD6870 (reference card with blower), as I have found a good deal, and I thought I couldn't miss it. The noise level difference was very noticeable, and not in favor of the newer, blower-type card. With undervolt, I have managed to tame it somewhat, but as soon as 7850 was out, I have happily swapped it.

The main problem with blower-type cards (in my opinion) is the heat dissipation area: with the usual designs (followed by the 5700XT reference card for instance), you usually need to share the surface of the card between the fins and and fan, which inevitably leaves much less area for the fin stack.

You could try to circumvent that by creating a really long card, where you cover the whole surface area with fins and pipes and then put the blower fan behind all that, but with with top end cards, which tend to have large PCBs, that wouldn't work very well (with something small like the fury x, it actually could!).

The traditional "top down" (from PCB perspective) design simply leaves much more room for dissipation area, as you can simply stack that with however many fans you feel fine with, positioned on top.

And then there are the other niceities, like cooling components and the PCB itself is easier with the top down design, and that if you increase the number of lamelles in the blower cooler to compensate for the smaller dissipation area, it becomes very dense, and therefore difficult to push air through it, which in return would require a larger fan (difficult to manage with a blower, another limitation, simply because of the form factor), or a stronger motor with higher RPM (it is no coincidence that blower fan coolers usually operate at higher RPMs).

So, all in all, I am happy that AMD decided not to go with a blower fan design

 

[grumblguts]

Sorry, that video only shows that a high-end system, pulling over 500 watts, can get noisy. We don't know how much of that was caused by system fans, or the radiator fans, or the GPU fans.

On the other hand, I also have first hand impressions with blower type reference cards: I have "upgraded" my HD 5850 (single fan Sapphire) to an HD6870 (reference card with blower), as I have found a good deal, and I thought I couldn't miss it. The noise level difference was very noticeable, and not in favor of the newer, blower-type card. With undervolt, I have managed to tame it somewhat, but as soon as 7850 was out, I have happily swapped it.

The main problem with blower-type cards (in my opinion) is the heat dissipation area: with the usual designs (followed by the 5700XT reference card for instance), you usually need to share the surface of the card between the fins and and fan, which inevitably leaves much less area for the fin stack.

You could try to circumvent that by creating a really long card, where you cover the whole surface area with fins and pipes and then put the blower fan behind all that, but with with top end cards, which tend to have large PCBs, that wouldn't work very well (with something small like the fury x, it actually could!).

The traditional "top down" (from PCB perspective) design simply leaves much more room for dissipation area, as you can simply stack that with however many fans you feel fine with, positioned on top.

And then there are the other niceities, like cooling components and the PCB itself is easier with the top down design, and that if you increase the number of lamelles in the blower cooler to compensate for the smaller dissipation area, it becomes very dense, and therefore difficult to push air through it, which in return would require a larger fan (difficult to manage with a blower, another limitation, simply because of the form factor), or a stronger motor with higher RPM (it is no coincidence that blower fan coolers usually operate at higher RPMs).

So, all in all, I am happy that AMD decided not to go with a blower fan design

maybe will will help you understand.

http://imgur.com/nTNEDRx

 

[grumblguts]

Anyone who reviews a blower fan and measures the noise wile on a work bench is a *****. their hole design is to be fitted into poor ventilated case, Testing them on a workbench removes that design aspect.

 

[jbc029]

Frankly, the top end big navi should be floating somewhere close, but not quite as fast as a 3080. A lot of people are going to find the 3070 is "faster" than a 2080ti in much the same way a 2080 was "faster" than a 1080ti. Technically true, but you'd have a hard time telling them apart in general use.

Nvidia is really sticking it to AMD with the pricing this gen. They know they have a winner by dropping the 3080 at $700. The 3070ti waiting at <big Navi - $50> will drop soon after big Navi does, undercutting the card. They've functionally capped their ability to really stretch their price cap and recoup some of that R&D.

$500 3070 will be there to clean up all the early buy-ins, before AMD can get on the board. AMD will launch their flagship @ $600 (comfortably between 3070 amd 3080) and the non-xt @ $450 (matching the 3070). NV will launch the 3070ti @ $550 (matching big Navi) 6 months later and discontinue the 3070 sku, ala 2070 -> 2070 Super.

 

[Neatfeatguy]

I'm just looking for something from Nvidia or AMD that offers 2080Ti performance for the best price point. Just want something that's at least twice the performance of my 980Ti and not cost more than $500-600.

Here's hoping AMD has something promising up their sleeves to combat what Nvidia is tossing out.

 

[toooooot]

I am in fear, awaiting for release day, and in even more fear expecting it to fail catching to 2080...
Anyone else feel exactly the same?

 

[jbc029]

I am in fear, awaiting for release day, and in even more fear expecting it to fail catching to 2080...
Anyone else feel exactly the same?

Considering that would mean you're worried that the new AMD card is only 15% faster than a 5700xt...yeah, that's just you.

 

[Lord Poci]

Very nice, it's look like my vega 64 nitro+.

 

[candle_86]

Depends on how far AMD is willing to go. The 5700xt was a 2070 competitor, and rDNA was almost as efficient as turing. But AMD just.....never bothered to release a larger GPU. A 3072 core rDNA would have likely come close to if not beat a 2080 non super, a 4096 core could have met the 2080ti, granted at 350+ watt power draw, but still, they could have done it. We likely will never know why AMD never bothered, IMO they didnt want to put all that effort into big chips just to replace them a year later with the 6000 series. If the 5700xt came out when radeon VII did, we likely would have seen big navi.

If AMD will just make a larger core this time around,w e could see good performance. The 3080 is only ~30% faster then the 2080ti. rDNA, if they had scaled it up, could have met the 2080ti last year. So if they scale up tot hat size this year, and rDNA2 brings some IPC/clock speed improvements, we could see 3080 performance, or within stones throw of it.

One can hope.

I'm not sure Everytime they tried to go big it back fired it's possible the arch doesn't scale well.

Look at hd2900xt, r9 290, Radeon viii

All of them failed to live up to the hype.


On another note it looks like I might upgrade my rx470, I only game at 1080 and the games I do play have been working but this launch could push the rtx 2060 used to under 200 as well as the 1080 to which would be quite tempting

 

[toooooot]

I'm not sure Everytime they tried to go big it back fired it's possible the arch doesn't scale well.

Look at hd2900xt, r9 290, Radeon viii

All of them failed to live up to the hype.


On another note it looks like I might upgrade my rx470, I only game at 1080 and the games I do play have been working but this launch could push the rtx 2060 used to under 200 as well as the 1080 to which would be quite tempting

These days, gaming at 1080p is the biggest money saver. You can literally find no better way to save money when running all your games at 1080p.
When my fairly expensive 2k monitor suddenly died and many places sold out all popular models because of covid, I was temped going higher, to 4k. But I killed the temptation and returned to 1080p

 

[NightAntilli]

The reason why you have to believe AMD can edge the 3070/2080Ti is the 52CU, 1825MHz, 320 bit bus Xbox Series X.

If they can design an APU with an entire 8 core Renoir CPU also on board, plus DSPs, get it manufactured with the GPU clocks they have and hit those yields and prices for a mere games console, then they surely can build a dedicated GPU with at least 60CUs enabled. Potentially even slightly better clocks and memory.

All that would point to something faster than a 2080Ti.

Not to mention the 2.2GHz clock on the PS5. PC graphics cards are not as constrained by power limits as consoles. I wouldn't be surprised if even if the die is large, AMD can hit 2.2 GHz with their big navi GPU.

 

[AvroArrow]

Anyone who reviews a blower fan and measures the noise wile on a work bench is a *****. their hole design is to be fitted into poor ventilated case, Testing them on a workbench removes that design aspect.

That is very true. The reason why I don't like blowers isn't because they're loud, it's because they're not very good at cooling. I only buy triple-fan cards which, I must admit, would be rather difficult (if not impossible) for someone with a µATX or mini-ITX case to use because they're physically large. In those cases, especially in the case of mini-ITX, a blower cooler is by far the most desirable because it won't cook the motherboard.

 

[AvroArrow]

Three fans rather than a noisy blower? That's progress.

Yeah, let's hope that they keep this progress because the Radeon VII was a triple-fan but the RX 5700 and RX 5700 XT were both blowers after that. I think that they do it because blower cards can work in mini-ITX and µATX cases while triple-fan cards generally only work in ATX Mid and Full Tower cases. The problem of course is that they don't cool as well as triple-fans and they tend to be louder than twin or triple-fan cards. The noise isn't as much of an issue when enclosed in a proper case but when being reviewed on an open test bench, it can be really irritating and that's how most reviewers conduct their hardware tests. The inferior thermal performance is a real problem though because some cards will have thermal throttling with a blower cooler but not with a twin or triple-fan setup. Timmy Joe showed this with an Alienware 2080 Ti that he got for a really good price.

 

[AvroArrow]

Looks like a exact copy of Nvidias Turing FE cards

It does...Well, except for the third fan. LOL

 

[AvroArrow]

Sorry, that video only shows that a high-end system, pulling over 500 watts, can get noisy. We don't know how much of that was caused by system fans, or the radiator fans, or the GPU fans.

On the other hand, I also have first hand impressions with blower type reference cards: I have "upgraded" my HD 5850 (single fan Sapphire) to an HD6870 (reference card with blower), as I have found a good deal, and I thought I couldn't miss it. The noise level difference was very noticeable, and not in favor of the newer, blower-type card. With undervolt, I have managed to tame it somewhat, but as soon as 7850 was out, I have happily swapped it.

The main problem with blower-type cards (in my opinion) is the heat dissipation area: with the usual designs (followed by the 5700XT reference card for instance), you usually need to share the surface of the card between the fins and and fan, which inevitably leaves much less area for the fin stack.

You could try to circumvent that by creating a really long card, where you cover the whole surface area with fins and pipes and then put the blower fan behind all that, but with with top end cards, which tend to have large PCBs, that wouldn't work very well (with something small like the fury x, it actually could!).

The traditional "top down" (from PCB perspective) design simply leaves much more room for dissipation area, as you can simply stack that with however many fans you feel fine with, positioned on top.

And then there are the other niceities, like cooling components and the PCB itself is easier with the top down design, and that if you increase the number of lamelles in the blower cooler to compensate for the smaller dissipation area, it becomes very dense, and therefore difficult to push air through it, which in return would require a larger fan (difficult to manage with a blower, another limitation, simply because of the form factor), or a stronger motor with higher RPM (it is no coincidence that blower fan coolers usually operate at higher RPMs).

So, all in all, I am happy that AMD decided not to go with a blower fan design

Yeah, me too. Not because of the noise (My first XFX HD 4870 1GB was a reference-style blower) but because of the better heat dissipation of triple-fan cards. My first triple-fan card was the Gigabyte Radeon HD 7970 Windforce and I was so impressed by that configuration that I decided to ONLY get triple-fan cards from then on. They run both cooler and quieter than blower or twin-fan designs.

Let's hope that they stick with it because even though the Radeon VII was a triple-fan design, the reference models of the RX 5700 and 5700 XT which came after the Radeon VII were BOTH blowers. The AIB partners didn't do anyone any favours by having twin-fan designs either because the MSi RX 5700 Red Dragon was reviewed by Steve Burke in a funny video titled "The MSi RX 5700: Smelling Like Fire is a Feature!" (I still chuckle at that name) and the XFX RX 5700 THICC II was rated as THE WORST of the 5700 XT cards that Gamers Nexus tested. This is why I never buy Mini-Towers.

 

[AvroArrow]

I think he's referring to the Radeon VII cooler, which was a complete disaster.

Regarding Asus, I wouldn't waste money on their AMD cards as have been messing up for quite some time now. I remember with the R290(x) they simply just slapped the 780 cooler and shipped it. I had pretty high RMA rates on it, mainly caused by the complete lack of VRAM cooling.

For AMD my general recommendation is Sapphire. As far as I can remember their coolers have always performed well.

I completely agree. I've never been impressed with ASUS' Radeon solutions either. Sapphire on the other hand, hell yeah! I've had really good experiences with Sapphire, XFX and Gigabyte. They all make solid cards, even though XFX kinda screwed up with the RX 5700 XT THICC II. My RX 5700 XT is an XFX triple-dissipation (triple fan solution) and it's great.

 

[alchemist83]

Yes I have.
put them both on a test bench and test noise the blower fan is about 15 DB louder.
But put them both in a case its only 5 db louder.
See the fan speed on the 3 fan increases so closing the gap.

example

No such problem using a blower fan gpu
(I rest my case)
proven move along.
(NEXT)

Nonse