Also you don't just have one bullet coming at cqb ranges; chances of multiple impacts increase plate breaking chance; even sapi plates can only sustain a few rounds of 7.62 at best.
Apple "Find My" app led a Missouri SWAT team to raid an innocent family's home, lawsuit pending
- Thread starter Daniel Sims
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dangh
Posts: 1,247 +2,033
No citizen got this weapon, it was very helpful, but it was military forces who received it.
And that is correct way of use - trained personnel using it in a conflict.
Wrong. Velocity defeats body armor and level 4 plates can be defeated by 5.56 moving at ~3000 fps. Full power rounds out of an 16-18" barrel can easily achieve this. Additionally, plates only cover vital organs from a straight on shot and don't protect against other areas that can easily kill you. Body armor isn't some magic shield that will protect you for all lethal injury and even if it manages to stop a faster moving round, there will be a large amount of back face deformation that can still temporarily incapacitate you and leave you vulnerable to follow up fire.
Tell me how Afghanistan went again?
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,598 +5,227
That has very little to do with the legality of firearms….
When you have a hammer then everything looks like a nail is a very old adage that applies to the militarization of the United States police forces. "Surplus" assault rifles and tanks are being gifted to police departments which allows the military to justify buying still more weaponry but makes the USA far more dangerous to all but the elites in their gated communities.
Routinely SWAT teams are sent as a first step to investigate instead of a police officer and their is clearly a mob mentality with these teams in how they think and how they conduct themselves. I have to wonder how many of these officers learned their craft as U.S. soldiers overseas breaking down the doors of homes in the dead of the night as their tactics are the same and the net effect of terrorizing civilians is the same.
Routinely SWAT teams are sent as a first step to investigate instead of a police officer and their is clearly a mob mentality with these teams in how they think and how they conduct themselves. I have to wonder how many of these officers learned their craft as U.S. soldiers overseas breaking down the doors of homes in the dead of the night as their tactics are the same and the net effect of terrorizing civilians is the same.
.. they will give you 100 in return, without question, tough guy.
mgwerner
Posts: 242 +393
And who says the poster's property does not have layered and lethal defense......
I was extremely tempted to ask them to try it and let us know in advance so we can pop some corn before we turn on the news, but then thought better of it due to their questionable decision making skills.
Endymio
Posts: 2,673 +2,702
Not only is that not true --ordinary citizens were indeed armed in Ukraine and told to repel invaders -- but it misses the fact that it neatly illustrates the lie in the original post. You claimed these small arms were "useless" in modern warfare, when the facts are quite the opposite.
Did you even read the article? The information Apple supplied law enforcement was correct. The issue was that the location of the stolen device did not imply the location of the perpetrator.
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dangh
Posts: 1,247 +2,033
Again, they weren't handled just to civilians, only to paramilitary groups under the army command. Volunteers, sure, but still munition were tracked and distributed to designated quickly created units. And while initial stages of invasion were very chaotic, there were never free distribution of arms to ordinary civilians.
And please, please, tell where did I said _anything_ about small arms in modern warfare?
... smh...
"The antiquated "I need guns in case the King of England invades" really no longer applies - if a foreign army actually does invade the US, your bazooka won't help..."
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,598 +5,227
And I stand by that - Afghanistan is a completely different kettle of fish… terrain, armed forces, political climate - all are VASTLY different.
You've got nothing to stand on. If anything, the invading army would have an exponentially harder time given the greater availability of arms, training, and very large number of retired military personnel in the civillian population.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 5,598 +5,227
Not my point - my point is that it’s apples and oranges… and who’s invading the US?!? Canada? Mexico?
Endymio
Posts: 2,673 +2,702
Wrong again!
Politico, Mar 11, 2022: Zelenskyy is arming Kyiv residents .... the government has promised to give a gun to any Ukrainian civilian who wants one..."
Zelenskyy is arming Kyiv residents — a former rival is helping supply the rest
Just days ago, Serhiy Prytula was planning to launch a political party to challenge the Ukrainian president. ‘That was another life,’ he says now.
www.politico.eu
One can quickly find thousands of similar references.
dangh
Posts: 1,247 +2,033
Reading is not your strong suit, amirite?Wrong again!
Politico, Mar 11, 2022: Zelenskyy is arming Kyiv residents .... the government has promised to give a gun to any Ukrainian civilian who wants one..."
Zelenskyy is arming Kyiv residents — a former rival is helping supply the rest
Just days ago, Serhiy Prytula was planning to launch a political party to challenge the Ukrainian president. ‘That was another life,’ he says now.
One can quickly find thousands of similar references.
"At least 40,000 people in Kyiv are asking to join Ukraine’s civilian brigade, the Territorial Defense Force, according to people close to the Ukrainian military. As of last week, the government said it had already handed out more than 25,000 automatic rifles to these volunteers. "
"He put his name down for the Territorial Defense Force in the first days after the war began, but there have not been enough government-supplied rifles to go around.
“But lots of the Territorial Defense are already equipped and waiting for orders,” he said."
And most important:
"Territorial Defense members get minimal training, according to Lebedev — just enough to make sure they know how to load and fire a gun. They are not allowed to take the weapons home with them and have to pledge to return them to the government once the war is over."
... smh
As I wrote, they gave arms to "quickly created units" and 'paramilitary groups'. That is exactly what happened and you'd know that if you actually were to read the article instead of looking just at the title, man.
And again, where did I ever said _anything_ about small arms in modern warfare? ;D
Your ability to admit you're wrong is non existing
That's fine, who cares, but it is you who are wrong. Again.
dirtyferret
Posts: 899 +1,274
1) I do not think the definition of "peace" means what they think it means
2) the husband and children were sleeping inside a truck, perhaps talking to him to gather more information would have been helpful
3) it took them half an hour to realize the dodge charger was not on the property?
4)why do you need a SWAT team to recover a stolen vehicle? Even if "weapons" are used in the car jacking, the minute you see children are involved the situation has to deescalate and perhaps not go into the house ramming the front door down.
2) the husband and children were sleeping inside a truck, perhaps talking to him to gather more information would have been helpful
3) it took them half an hour to realize the dodge charger was not on the property?
4)why do you need a SWAT team to recover a stolen vehicle? Even if "weapons" are used in the car jacking, the minute you see children are involved the situation has to deescalate and perhaps not go into the house ramming the front door down.
But this is America. If you dont use overwhelming unnecessary force, its considered woke.
Just to clarify, while it was a reaction to King George's abuses of power, the second amendment is meant to prevent any US government devolving into a tyrannical body by allowing citizens to resist it in the form of a armed militia. Many of the early amendments were for this purpose. The 2nd doesn't mean that anyone can posses fire arms BTW, it means that government bodies can't de-arm legally formed militias. Something that is often overlooked by the "gun nuts" IMHO.
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