Apple refuses to refund mother whose six-year-old boy spent $16,000 on Sonic Forces

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,151   +3,330
Do we know she didn't try that as well? Not entirely clear but to use your own words Apple owns the franchise and territories then lets independent franchisee's sell what they want for a cut is more accurate.
My post was in reply to a user in this forum... not the article...
 

lipe123

Posts: 972   +560
A lot of ignorant people here going on about "why didn't you contact the game dev or apple immediately?"

Because the credit card statements entries will be something like: xxxyz.com payment $45
It's extremely hard to trace it back to the game or Apple for that matter. However what I do find odd is that on android I always get an emailed receipt for any in app purchase. Does Apple not do this?

Lastly I think there are supposed to be laws in the US that you cannot market stuff at children and since the kid was like 6 they should have some recourse to get the money back.
 

p51d007

Posts: 2,832   +2,181
An electronic device is NOT a babysitter. If you were careless enough to allow your SIX year old access to your device, that's on you, not Apple/paypal/google/credit card company.
 

Shadowboxer

Posts: 1,717   +1,322
Why is Apple being hounded to refund the fees? They didn’t sell the in game items, they don’t hold her money. If Apples security was compromised to allow her child to buy these things then I would understand but it’s not the case. The game developer needs to do the right thing and return the money to the boys mother. Although legally they are entitled not to.

Although Apple can do more to prevent this in the future, spending caps, additional passwords for spends greater than £50 or so etc. (This may already exist, I don’t have kids so I don’t know). But even then, if you give your kid the password then there is only so much Apple can do.
 

Cycloid Torus

Posts: 4,803   +1,603
So she contacted CC- issuer. Fraud investigation should have been in contact with Apple - so she may have made contact in the 60-day window by proxy.

I think the equation (big charges, fraud indicated (sworn to by unknowing party), fraud investigated) should clue the folks at Apple that something was not right.

As one adult parent to another (if we assume Apple is 'adult'), if I encountered a kid messing up, I would put the parent into 'knowing' ASAP.
 

TomSEA

Posts: 3,320   +2,068
Not a lot of sympathy here. Letting a six-year old play (without supervision) a game that's built around the "pay to win" concept.

Having said that, don't think it's unreasonable if Apple cuts the cost in half. Both sides get a win out of that.
 

Daniele 00

Posts: 104   +82
There is no moral anymore. You made a good adv of yourself there, Apple. The mother could be possible mistaken to do not take care of her phone, but Apple ... to refuse to give back the money, is a thief. "To rob candies from a child?" I think it fit here.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,151   +3,330
A lot of ignorant people here going on about "why didn't you contact the game dev or apple immediately?"

Because the credit card statements entries will be something like: xxxyz.com payment $45
It's extremely hard to trace it back to the game or Apple for that matter. However what I do find odd is that on android I always get an emailed receipt for any in app purchase. Does Apple not do this?

Lastly I think there are supposed to be laws in the US that you cannot market stuff at children and since the kid was like 6 they should have some recourse to get the money back.
Apple DOES email you a receipt within a day or 2 of every purchase made... so again, no excuse for this parent.
 

Milkyjoe

Posts: 53   +34
Apple DOES email you a receipt within a day or 2 of every purchase made... so again, no excuse for this parent.
It could be the parent who spent the money, now realizing they spent to much they try and blame the child to play the simpethy card, which could help get money back.
 

Neatfeatguy

Posts: 444   +709
I have no payment info tied my Apple account. The account is only tied to one device, an iPad that was gifted to the daughter (at the time she was 8...so this was nearly 5 years ago). I logged into and connected my Apple ID that I setup probably 10 years prior (about 15 years ago now) that I haven't used in almost 15 years.

I changed the password to something long and random and have no payment tied to it.
I also setup the iPad to require a password for anything - the kids want a game downloaded, I need to enter my password. They click on something that requires payment..BOOM! Password requested! Not that it would matter since no payment method is tied to my apple account.

Any parent with young kids shouldn't just be letting them play with their phones, they should be aware of microtransactions that are tied to mobile games these days. Live and learn, I guess.
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 481   +370
I sorry for all you apologist for Apple - these games are pure scams - no different from loan sharks - I understand someone paying $100 for Vbucks or whatever - but all providers must provide additional protections for this to happen.
We wouldn't put up with Scum like this in our backyard preying on the Vulnerable.

Nice to see how superior and smart , and self righteous a lot of commentators here are .
If I was this couple I would take them to court as my own lawyer - just pay lodging fee - and give continuous media to it . Plus if some countries they would get trashed in court - probably not the USA though with predators rights are enshrined - they have lost cases in NZ over false advertising and having failing crap
 

Bullwinkle M

Posts: 551   +439
If you ordered a copy of Windows from BestBuy and didn’t receive it - would you complain to Microsoft?

Funny you should say that....

I DID buy a copy of Windows preinstalled on a computer from Best Buy and decided to restore the backup within the return window to verify everything worked if something should go wrong

The backup did not have network drivers and I was unable to download drivers

Returned the computer to Best Buy for a fix

They simply replaced the O.S. with a copy of Windows that could not be reinstalled from the activation code on the side of the box

When I complained, they said they had to verify the activation code did not work, checked the code, then billed me $45 ransom to get my computer back after telling me that I was correct and the codes did not match

They refused to fix the problem that "THEY" created and I then turned to Microsoft to see if there was anything that could be done to remedy the situation

Microsoft ignored my complaint, just as Best had done

I paid the $45 ransom to get the computer back, but the Freak Squad left a copy of Michael AuYeungs 8in1 XP CD in the DVD tray

Best buy had used the Magic Jellybean Keyfinder on the CD to verify the keys did not match and then charged me for the priviledge of verifying what I already knew before going to best buy

Well..........at least I got a working copy of Windows that I had already paid for

A Volume Licensed Copy that did not require Microsoft's Genuine Monopoly activation service

Thanks Michael AuYeung !
 
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brucek

Posts: 863   +1,252
Not reasonable that the default is to allow $16,000 of app store purchases via an application clearly designed for children. The default max should be much lower and require explicit parent consent to raise, via a process that adequately prevents the child from doing so on the parent's behalf.

Not enough to say the parent could have turned it off, when there are hundreds of settings in dozens of nested menus on an iPhone and the average parent could not possibly know and understand about all of them.

They may currently have the law on their side on this one, but it's not because it reflects the will of the people or a common sense approach. As with many tech issues that haven't yet really been managed yet by the normal political/legislative process, this will eventually get fixed via legislation if the companies involved don't fix it themselves first.
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,151   +3,330
Funny you should say that....

I DID buy a copy of Windows preinstalled on a computer from Best Buy and decided to restore the backup within the return window to verify everything worked if something should go wrong

The backup did not have network drivers and I was unable to download drivers

Returned the computer to Best Buy for a fix

They simply replaced the O.S. with a copy of Windows that could not be reinstalled from the activation code on the side of the box

When I complained, they said they had to verify the activation code did not work, checked the code, then billed me $45 ransom to get my computer back after telling me that I was correct and the codes did not match

They refused to fix the problem that "THEY" created and I then turned to Microsoft to see if there was anything that could be done to remedy the situation

Microsoft ignored my complaint, just as Best had done

I paid the $45 ransom to get the computer back, but the Freak Squad left a copy of Michael AuYeungs 8in1 XP CD in the DVD tray

Best buy had used the Magic Jellybean Keyfinder on the CD to verify the keys did not match and then charged me for the priviledge of verifying what I already knew before going to best buy

Well..........at least I got a working copy of Windows that I had already paid for

A Volume Licensed Copy that did not require Microsoft's Genuine Monopoly activation service

Thanks Michael AuYeung !
Hehehe... yeah... BestBuy are staffed by a bunch of mor0ns... but clearly they were at fault - not Microsoft... I'd be going back in there telling them they owed you money - but it would probably take hours... not worth it for $45....
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,151   +3,330
Not reasonable that the default is to allow $16,000 of app store purchases via an application clearly designed for children. The default max should be much lower and require explicit parent consent to raise, via a process that adequately prevents the child from doing so on the parent's behalf.

Not enough to say the parent could have turned it off, when there are hundreds of settings in dozens of nested menus on an iPhone and the average parent could not possibly know and understand about all of them.

They may currently have the law on their side on this one, but it's not because it reflects the will of the people or a common sense approach. As with many tech issues that haven't yet really been managed yet by the normal political/legislative process, this will eventually get fixed via legislation if the companies involved don't fix it themselves first.
There's no "default".... this happened over a period of several weeks - or possibly even months... at $99 per purchase...
Apple emails a receipt every time you make a purchase - so the woman must have been ignoring them - or had her Apple ID on an email she doesn't check (BAD IDEA!!!).

And while the method to turn off in-app purchases might be complicated (it isn't really, but I'll agree for the sake of argument), there's still no excuse for allowing your kid to play ANYTHING that has access to the internet without supervision - or at least vetting the application/game first.

Also, in order to make a purchase, you need to know the apple id / password of the device in question... WHY ON EARTH WOULD YOU SHARE THAT WITH A SIX YEAR OLD?!?!??!!?
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,193   +2,212
Brilliant! Another Parent who apparently doesn't check her emails (remember, Apple email you a receipt with every transaction on your account) doesn't check the settings and even more embarrassingly, attached their main credit card to an account a 6 year old had access to.

Honestly, it's very hard to sympathise with the parents when it is their fault here. They ignored absolutely everything, every safety measure, every setting, every alert.

Now that being said, Apple could win some "family friendly" points here by refunding at least a chunk of it, I get not refunding all of it otherwise the parents might never wise up but damn, that's a lot of money.
 

Adi6293

Posts: 907   +1,272
I have a 6 year old son who had many tablets since he was 3ish ( keeps breaking them ) I never had a problem with him buying something for any of the games he plays simply because I set those tablets up in a way that he can't even install an app without my permission IT IS NOT THAT HARD I do feel sorry for the family BUT ( this is coming form an Apple hater ) it is not Apple's fault, SEGA should have a spending limit in place for that game a phone game should not let anybody blew $2500 in one day
 

YSignal

Posts: 45   +33
The mother is the custodian of the child. It's up to her do what is necessary to keep the child from using her credit card.
Not everyone is as tech savy as you think they should be.(in my experience most people aren't) I think think one or some the companies involved shoud help her out somehow instead of essentially saying "too bad It's not our fault."

Furthemore these types of games prey on the ignorant, or kids to young to understand what what their doing. Should be regulations on in app purchases.
 
W

WhatTheZuck420

Stupid parents = stupid kid. And we will be dealing with the kid at some point in a business where they cannot do simply things like make change or calculate a work order, because mom used an electronic babysitter instead of being a parent. Too busy on InstaTwitFace to pay attention to her kid.
You must be fun at parties.
 
W

WhatTheZuck420

Funny you should say that....

I DID buy a copy of Windows preinstalled on a computer from Best Buy and decided to restore the backup within the return window to verify everything worked if something should go wrong

The backup did not have network drivers and I was unable to download drivers

Returned the computer to Best Buy for a fix

They simply replaced the O.S. with a copy of Windows that could not be reinstalled from the activation code on the side of the box

When I complained, they said they had to verify the activation code did not work, checked the code, then billed me $45 ransom to get my computer back after telling me that I was correct and the codes did not match

They refused to fix the problem that "THEY" created and I then turned to Microsoft to see if there was anything that could be done to remedy the situation

Microsoft ignored my complaint, just as Best had done

I paid the $45 ransom to get the computer back, but the Freak Squad left a copy of Michael AuYeungs 8in1 XP CD in the DVD tray

Best buy had used the Magic Jellybean Keyfinder on the CD to verify the keys did not match and then charged me for the priviledge of verifying what I already knew before going to best buy

Well..........at least I got a working copy of Windows that I had already paid for

A Volume Licensed Copy that did not require Microsoft's Genuine Monopoly activation service

Thanks Michael AuYeung !
Cool story!
 

Squid Surprise

Posts: 4,151   +3,330
Any business that preys on the weak minded should be regulated against. It's basically just as bad as predatory lending.
Lol.... then half the companies in the world would have to shutdown...
But hey, I’ve got a set of Ginsu knives that never need sharpening...