Argument over video game leads teenager to shoot and kill friend

Burty117

TechSpot Chancellor
So back on topic.

What's everyone's suggestions to stop people shooting each other, particularly in schools? What's everyone's official opinion on how to lower gun crime in America?

- Arm Teachers?
- Stronger more stringent checks?
- Banish guns unless you're licensed to do so?
- Somehow train an entire generation or two to appreciate guns and life?

Just so there's no doubt, I'm obviously more in the Stronger Laws or get rid of them camp but I'm fully aware lots of people here aren't. Just interested on your opinion and thoughts about tackling the issue at hand.
 
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Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
So back on topic.

What's everyone's suggestions to stop people shooting each other, particularly in schools? What's everyone's official opinion on how to lower gun crime in America?

- Arm Teachers?
- Stronger more stringent checks?
- Banish guns unless you're licensed to do so?
- Somehow train an entire generation or two to appreciate guns and life?

Just so there's no doubt, I'm obviously more in the Stronger Laws or get rid of them camp but I'm fully aware lots of people here aren't. Just interested on your opinion and thoughts about tackling the issue at hand.

ALL OF THE ABOVE!

wipe out poverty. or dismantle the capitalist system all together .but as Cliff .stated that's not likely,, .

Can have a permit system like getting a drivers licence.mentoring.

learn safety first. teach it in school.as part of the curriculum.

Mandatory Cadet training , instilling proper values ,at a young age.

wife gave my son a toy gun when he was only 7, he made the error of pointing it at me ,I took it and smashed it ,turned on him and her ,very harshly,Lesson learned .he now has kids of his own and I'm extremely proud of him.very nice, well mannered children.being raised with values .discipline ,
https://www.cnn.com/2018/02/23/us/florida-school-shooting/index.html?utm_source=digg&utm_medium=email

sorry if its a bit off the original topic. but WOW, I just got this in another email.
like I posted ,others are responsible for that florida school massacre, had people done due diligence ,and had done their jobs ,this massacre could have been prevented .if not minimized .
Obviously laws are only as effective as the Enforcement officers that implement them.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
For one:
Balance wealth, narrow the income divide.​
Well as @wiyosaya points out, capitalism and feudalism have similar income disparity traits. The fact remains, my generation, and those before it, merely grumbled something like, "the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer", and that was that.We didn't shoot up our classrooms because of petty jealousies. We made do with what we had.

That's not likely to happen, so there is no need in further discussion.
Well, I'm just about maxed out on the nonsense that has pervaded this thread. I've bee told that "my generation was "desensitized to violence because there actually was a war on". To which I wonder, "when have wars actually stopped"?

In spite of the mayhem of the 60's and 70's our music had values, peace, love, and introspection being the chief thematic elematics.

Today violence is glorified under the guise of "freedom of speech". People are affected deeply by music, there's no denying or getting around that. Something which manifests itself in daily American life, values, and goals.

A major cultural breakdown is underway in America. We've simply had entirely too much, for too long. Decadence is the final penalty of any great society, and if this were Rome, I'd be expecting Attila and his Hun army to be marching down Pennsylvania Avenue, any day now.

In all honesty, I think all of you have completely missed the point. America's troubles aren't "this or that", but rather systemic.

Sociologists point out the an individual's first allegiances should be to his country, the first boundary between him or her, and the world at large. Richard Nixon ended the draft, and when he did so, he cut off every draft eligible individual frrom any responsibility to anyone but themselves. As a result, our millenials have virtually taken science back hundreds of years. Back to when people thought the sun revolved around the earth. Today's youth have taken that one step further, and are now convinced the earth revolves around them as individuals. So,"Individualism", is merely a euphemism for "every man for himself", which is itself a euphemism for, "anarchy".

My generation waged a war for racial equality, and judging by the fact we've had a black president, I though that war had been won. But now, African Americans being paid millions of dollars a year to play a game, don't have the courtesy of standing for our national anthem, citing "discrimination".

It all adds up to a dying way of life, and any identity past one's own mind. And trust me, it's a issue which will undoubtedly prove to be America's undoing.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
So back on topic.

What's everyone's suggestions to stop people shooting each other, particularly in schools? What's everyone's official opinion on how to lower gun crime in America?

- Arm Teachers?
- Stronger more stringent checks?
- Banish guns unless you're licensed to do so?
- Somehow train an entire generation or two to appreciate guns and life?

Just so there's no doubt, I'm obviously more in the Stronger Laws or get rid of them camp but I'm fully aware lots of people here aren't. Just interested on your opinion and thoughts about tackling the issue at hand.
Well @Burty117 THe UK is legislated beyond redemption. You can't even make a "mix tape" from music you bought and paid for from iTunes, without violating someone's copyright. You can no longer, produce advertising with any gender roles specified. In other words, you can't represent a woman as a nurse, in relation to a man as a doctor (And so forth).

I would think that you should be more concerned with how bad the parasites in your houses of Parliament and courts were screwing the British people over, instead of trying to meddle in America's problems.

And BTW, I hear your "bobbies", have to carry guns now.

So, any time you want to try and reimpose the king's will here in America, fire up those tinfoil battleships of yours, (you know, the ones the French "Exocet" missiles were blowing out of the water in the Falklands ), and have a go at it...;)

And keep in mind this is all tongue in cheek on my part. Don't change a thing, Great Britain is more today than it ever was. Well except maybe for cutting Australia, New Zealand, the US, and India loose, but they can almost babysit themselves these days anyway.(y)
 

Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
Most people would realize when they've hit rock bottom, but not you. The gist of that statement is, "me too, I know you are".

What's interesting to me, is the intensity and repetitiveness of everything you're saying. If this wasn't something you felt like "arguing to the death over", (pun intended). you'd be whimpering about how, "this is a tech site, this is click bait", or something similar.

What I find most interesting is how there's always plaintiff moan, about how innocents are being killed. That's really a stretch, since there's no such thing, as an innocent adult human.

In fact, some of those "innocents", might very well grow into mass shooters themselves . I mean really, somebody might tell one of those next generation pathological snowflakes, something like,, "you're weird", or maybe, "you're ugly", and the next thing you know, you've got a field full of dead bodies. It all really boils down to proper socialization of individuals, along with the instilling a proper set of operative values into each and every one of the coming generations. And boy oh boy, it sure ain't being done. Every succeeding generation which comes to pass, is less intelligent, more prone to violence, with deteriorating morals and less, well, civilized.

The simple fact of the matter is, you really can't legislate the killer instinct out of the human race, nor can you legislate to condemn the masses, for the sins of a few..

I'm going to make a big leap and presume, that you have no real stake in this, you just want to let everybody on the site know that you're a fearless "SJW".

And here's the definition of that, direct from the urban dictionary, which actually is a good source for contemporary colloquial context.

"Social Justice Warrior. A pejorative term for an individual who repeatedly and vehemently engages in arguments on social justice on the Internet, often in a shallow or not well-thought-out way, for the purpose of raising their own personal reputation. A social justice warrior, or SJW, does not necessarily strongly believe all that they say, or even care about the groups they are fighting on behalf of".

When you come right down to it, that pretty much sums up your narrative.

After all, it wasn't your friend that got shot playing a video game. It wasn't your child that got shot in Florida.

In fact, that wasn't the topic of this thread, now was it?" You just kind of threw that in here, to let everybody know how compassionate you can pretend to be. In other plainer spoken terms, you're off topic.

Somebody got shot over a video game, tough sh!t, end of story. The shooting in Florida, off topic.

Call me when you get back on topic instead of making personal attacks. I see no point reading past the first insult.


Go ahead and report ,there should be a hurt feelings report available for link ,I'm sure they are reading every thing posted.I don't recall a post being deleted.I have no problem with it if they do .admin can clean up any thread they please..PLEASE.

http://www.photokami.com/Hurtfeelings.pdf

this for anyone.should be a sticky here.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Improvised_firearm
https://www.bing.com/images/search?q=Zip+gun&qpvt=Zip+gun&FORM=IGRE

No Id!ot should have access to a gun ,period,bad enough they are allowed to drive,

and buying an illegal gun being easier to buy than a legal one has already been proven.I don't have to prove it again..what you want a photo of one posted ,sorry.can't help you.I can get a photo of one but I can't get photo's to upload.

Laws don't prevent accidental deaths.or there should be laws for Chainsaws ,and Hydraulic jacks, as well, people die using those .

Hardship = fees and paperwork,licence renewal, transportation for ,such, that a person that hunts for food can't really afford.and has no impact on the criminal element ,go read why Canada ,scrapped the long gun registry.norway that allready had strict gun laws .that didn't prevent a massacre,from your own link, which I did read..

I don't believe in accidental deaths.,thats like saying sh!t happens ,I don't believe that either ,people make sh!t happen through inexperience,neglect,failing to due proper diligence.ignorance. " I didn't know the gun was loaded ". never heard that before,B.S.
there are many that have guns already that should NOT. and the laws make no difference.

I never said gun laws don't work' some do, some do not. you don't comprehend very well. I APPROVE ,of some gun laws that keep guns out of the hands of anyone that shouldn't have a gun .Background checks,etc , things change.and those laws aren't working are they.

now go take your sign and stand with the rest of the protestors.I'm done here .as your just too obvious.and if Mailpup wishes to clean up a thread or so ,be my guest..
Where I live, illegal guns are not easier to obtain than legal ones. You are from Canada. It doesn't matter whether or not you can get an illegal weapon there, we are talking about US gun law.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-nra-is-wrong-the-myth-of-illegal-guns

You need to improve your definition of hardship, as right now it includes every gun law but at the end you state that you do approve of certain gun laws. So you would approve of including a mental health check as part of the background check on the federal level? That meets all your criteria. Right now the background check misses many details and mental health isn't even a federal requirement, with states having to implement it themselves.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Call me when you get back on topic instead of making personal attacks. I see no point reading past the first insult....[ ]....
I have no desire to even talk to you, let alone have you demand that, "I get back to you".

Bugger off.

PS: Are you really so dense as to believe that even if you change all of our minds here, it will make one bit of difference overall?

Go start begging for donations for your 2020 run for president.
 
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Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
Call me when you get back on topic instead of making personal attacks. I see no point reading past the first insult.




Where I live, illegal guns are not easier to obtain than legal ones. You are from Canada. It doesn't matter whether or not you can get an illegal weapon there, we are talking about US gun law.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/the-nra-is-wrong-the-myth-of-illegal-guns

You need to improve your definition of hardship, as right now it includes every gun law but at the end you state that you do approve of certain gun laws. So you would approve of including a mental health check as part of the background check on the federal level? That meets all your criteria. Right now the background check misses many details and mental health isn't even a federal requirement, with states having to implement it themselves.
I stated I approve of gun control from the beginning,especially.the background checks. mandatory safety courses.
that's hardship here .very poor people ,, living from the land and sea.as best they can.
I agree it seems legal guns are far to easy for anyone to get access too down there .
most illegal handguns in cities like T.O. come from the U.S. and/or are stolen..
..the first person in your Link ,Lansa stole his mothers unsecured assault rifle .and someone stating he couldn't get an illegal gun ,is no different than me saying he can,and being a drug dealer makes it even easier ,
 
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Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
I have no desire to even talk to you, let alone have you demand that, "I get back to you".

Bugger off.

PS: Are you really so dense as to believe that even if you change all of our minds here, it will make one bit of difference overall?

Go start begging for donations for your 2020 run for president.
Call me when you get back on topic instead of making personal attacks. I see no point reading past the first insult

I stated I approve of gun control from the beginning,especially.the background checks. mandatory safety courses.
that's hardship here .very poor people ,, living from the land and sea.as best they can.
I agree it seems legal guns are far to easy for anyone to get access too down there .
most illegal handguns in cities like T.O. come from the U.S. and/or are stolen..
Well that's what I was going for. Safety courses would certainly help as you mentioned. Totally agree with you on this one.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Call me when you get back on topic instead of making personal attacks. I see no point reading past the first insult.
And yet, it seems you did. Please explain to me in simple terms, why it is you think you can either demand "I get back to you", or why it is you think I am willing to continue to talk to you.?

This is a free country, I don't have to associate with people I choose not to. I'd put you on my ignore list, but then I would miss all your pathos.

Tell me though, if you were here in the hood with me wouldn't you just like to blow my brains out about now?:eek::p
 

Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist

Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
And yet, it seems you did. Please explain to me in simple terms, why it is you think you can either demand "I get back to you", or why it is you think I am willing to continue to talk to you.?

This is a free country, I don't have to associate with people I choose not to. I'd put you on my ignore list, but then I would miss all your pathos.

Tell me though, if you were here in the hood with me wouldn't you just like to blow my brains out about now?:eek::p
No captain, I would not resort to any gun violence. You think I'd get mad from internet comments?
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I stated I approve of gun control from the beginning,especially.the background checks. mandatory safety courses.
that's hardship here .very poor people ,, living from the land and sea.as best they can.
I agree it seems legal guns are far to easy for anyone to get access too down there .
most illegal handguns in cities like T.O. come from the U.S. and/or are stolen..
..the first person in your Link ,Lansa stole his mothers unsecured assault rifle .and someone stating he couldn't get an illegal gun ,is no different than me saying he can,and being a drug dealer makes it even easier ,
Yes, but you apparently don't approve of gun control to the degree that @Evernessince demands.

As paranoid as it sounds, if we outlawed guns altogether, then either the Chinese or the Russians would find a way to bring them into the country. Also keep in mind, it only cost about $18.00 to build one o' them thar "Kalashnikovs". (AK-47). Which BTW, work better than an M-16. (Slightly looser tolerances). It's the same issue with heroin and fentanyl now. The fed can't stem the flow of drugs from Afghanistan and China, (among many other actors), so they're scapegoating ouyr doctors for pain meds. Are some doctors at fault? Sure. Are they the biggest problem, Hardly.

I find it unfortunate that people in this thread aren't realizing how many gun laws we actually have in effect right now.

The ACLU creates more problems than it solves. If the police can stop known drug and gun runners on the streets and highways, and miss a shipment, they'll be accused of "profiling". It's the same in the ghetto. Police can no longer "stop and frisk",. They have to be certain an actor has a bundle of scag down his drawers or a nine in his waistband, of expose themselves to a lawsuit. Most of them do, but you have to be certain, or risk losing your job.

More gun laws, bah. You have to roll back some of those things I just mentioned, to even be able to enforce the ones we have.
 

Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
Yes, but you apparently don't approve of gun control to the degree that @Evernessince demands.

As paranoid as it sounds, if we outlawed guns altogether, then either the Chinese or the Russians would find a way to bring them into the country. Also keep in mind, it only cost about $18.00 to build one o' them thar "Kalashnikovs". (AK-47). Which BTW, work better than an M-16. (Slightly looser tolerances). It's the same issue with heroin and fentanyl now. The fed can't stem the flow of drugs from Afghanistan and China, (among many other actors), so they're scapegoating ouyr doctors for pain meds. Are some doctors at fault? Sure. Are they the biggest problem, Hardly.

I find it unfortunate that people in this thread aren't realizing how many gun laws we actually have in effect right now.

The ACLU creates more problems than it solves. The police can stop know drug and gun runners on the streets and highways, they'll be accused of "profiling". It's the same in the ghetto. Police can no longer "stop and frisk",. They have to be certain an actor has a bundle of scag down his drawers or a nine in his waistband, of expose themselves to a lawsuit.

More gun laws, bah. You have to roll back some of those things I just mentioned, to even be able to enforce the ones we have.
Never said anything about outlawing guns, nothing of the sort.

I agree with Boilerhog146 points.

No one even says we have to have more laws either. There are older rules in the book that can be removed / updated. As Boilerhog146 put it, you don't want to overburden average citizens.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
No captain, I would not resort to any gun violence. You think I'd get mad from internet comments?
Read my sig, in English, "those who are about to be offended, I salute you. Actually, "indignans" is Latin for "offended", but also, "indignant" is an English word derived from it.

So, I think, at the very least, you're pretty "indignant".

You've gone off for 5 pages about a singular topic, "more gun laws". You haven't credited, recognized, or agreed with anything else that has been offered.

So,here comes another "insult". You have a one track mind, and that is annoying.

You've spouted the most incorrect nonsense imaginable. Like "my generation was desensitized to violence, because there cactually was a war going on". Since Vietnam we've had several wars, 2 in Irag, and one which is ongoing in Afghanistan. They don't publicize them as much, after all, the networks would rather allot that time to gaining ad revenue.

You have continued to fail to acknowledge that even the, "headline" types of murders being committed, fall into 2 basic categories.

First, you have gangs in the inner city killing one another over turf, and drug issues. If they could shoot straight, I say, give them all the gun they want, and let them kill one another.

The second, is what I could describe as being committed by "crazy white people", these are the mass shootings. Hell maybe we're inbred. You see a black perp shooting on the news, the headline is, "store owner shot in armed robbery". Certainly not normal and quite reprehensible, but not surprising either. The next day you see, "crazy white mother f**ker, climbs up hotel and shoot 50 people dead". And that is deranged, and also somewhat unpredictable.

The rest of the more personal types of killings "love, money, & revenge", get made into network TV, "scripted process dramas".

So, in any case, you can't get a Federal criminal record expunged. Accordingly, the background checks we have now, if done correctly, can't miss someone's criminal record.

Still, gun laws which would be way more than adequate in North Dakota, wouldn't be nearly stringent enough in New York city, so you do have to take demographics and geography into account, when you start drafting "one size fits all" legislation.

We see it here in the big city all the time, "subject had a permit to carry in Mombasa, but not here". And here we confiscate the weapon.

Somehow though, every time I respond to you, I feel I'm stating the patently obvious, and yet it flies right over your head.

The anti-gun lobby at present, is pushing an all or nothing agenda. There are abuses which could be cleaned up. For example, forcing owners to report "lost or "stolen" guns, that makes sense.

But as for the inner city, I really do enjoy watching these mutts blow one another away. I've even had it explained to me sic, "thas thu way us n*****s fight these dayz, it is whut it is. y'all jus has a git used to it".

With any normal human values instilled in these mongrels, you wouldn't be getting that type of feedback
 
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Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
Yes, but you apparently don't approve of gun control to the degree that @Evernessince demands.

As paranoid as it sounds, if we outlawed guns altogether, then either the Chinese or the Russians would find a way to bring them into the country. Also keep in mind, it only cost about $18.00 to build one o' them thar "Kalashnikovs". (AK-47). Which BTW, work better than an M-16. (Slightly looser tolerances). It's the same issue with heroin and fentanyl now. The fed can't stem the flow of drugs from Afghanistan and China, (among many other actors), so they're scapegoating ouyr doctors for pain meds. Are some doctors at fault? Sure. Are they the biggest problem, Hardly.

I find it unfortunate that people in this thread aren't realizing how many gun laws we actually have in effect right now.

The ACLU creates more problems than it solves. If the police can stop known drug and gun runners on the streets and highways, and miss a shipment, they'll be accused of "profiling". It's the same in the ghetto. Police can no longer "stop and frisk",. They have to be certain an actor has a bundle of scag down his drawers or a nine in his waistband, of expose themselves to a lawsuit. Most of them do, but you have to be certain, or risk losing your job.

More gun laws, bah. You have to roll back some of those things I just mentioned, to even be able to enforce the ones we have.
He agreed with me !,after all the posts ,I gave him a like,

your right.Cap I don't agree with many of the laws that fail to reduce gun crime. and place a burden on enforcement,court systems, and the taxpayer.one size never fits all.
but,I do approve of the licensing/renewal periodically ,and proper training/screening of new owners. raising our children properly.
what we have in Canada does work for ,again, the legal gun owners .but these laws don't work for the big drug dealers and gunrunners .Criminals who have to get caught at something stupid like speeding .to get caught for more serious crimes .

so yup ,I have to fill out forms, get a photo for the I.d.,,references, a vigorous screening ,disclose medical/marital information. wait for the I.d to come back. if all is good.stressful ,as I don't know when .I will get refused ,and the dealer down the road ,just shrugs his shoulders at me, he has only to worry if a fed asks for his Pal. which rarely happens, I've never been asked for mine . and there's a fee for the admin..

as for all going after the NRA, I bet ,most teach their children from a young age ,they store their firearms securely ,ammo separately ,their kids are more responsible than, many adults .I don't recall any NRA member in the news .doing a mass murder, I'll have to go look.
 
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Evernessince

地獄らしい人間動物園
Read my sig, in English, "those who are about to be offended, I salute you. Actually, "indignans" is Latin for "offended", but also, "indignant" is an English word derived from it.

So, I think, at the very least, you're pretty "indignant".

You've gone off for 5 pages about a singular topic, "more gun laws". You haven't credited, recognized, or agreed with anything else that has been offered.

So,here comes another "insult". You have a one track mind, and that is annoying.

You've spouted the most incorrect nonsense imaginable. Like "my generation was desensitized to violence, because there cactually was a war going on". Since Vietnam we've had several wars, 2 in Irag, and one which is ongoing in Afghanistan. They don't publicize them as much, after all, the networks would rather allot that time to gaining ad revenue.

You have continued to fail to acknowledge that even the, "headline" types of murders being committed, fall into 2 basic categories.

First, you have gangs in the inner city killing one another over turf, and drug issues. If they could shoot straight, I say, give them all the gun they want, and let them kill one another.

The second, is what I could describe as being committed by "crazy white people", these are the mass shootings. Hell maybe we're inbred. You see a black perp shooting on the news, the headline is, "store owner shot in armed robbery". Certainly not normal and quite reprehensible, but not surprising either. The next day you see, "crazy white mother f**ker, climbs up hotel and shoot 50 people dead". And that is deranged, and also somewhat unpredictable.

The rest of the more personal types of killings "love, money, & revenge", get made into network TV, "scripted process dramas".

So, in any case, you can't get a Federal criminal record expunged. Accordingly, the background checks we have now, if done correctly, can't miss someone's criminal record.

Still, gun laws which would be way more than adequate in North Dakota, wouldn't be nearly stringent enough in New York city, so you do have to take demographics and geography into account, when you start drafting "one size fits all" legislation.

We see it here in the big city all the time, "subject had a permit to carry in Mombasa, but not here. And here we confiscate the weapon.

Somehow though, every time I respond to you, I feel I'm stating the patently obvious, and yet it flies right over your head.
Maybe my posts weren't clear enough. I used the term "Common Sense Gun Laws" the most. What that meant isn't necessarily new laws, but laws that recognize the changes that have taken place since they were originally written. Simply updating these laws for modern times should go a long way.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
your right.Cap I don't agree with many of the laws that fail to reduce gun crime. and place a burden on enforcement,court systems, and the taxpayer. but,I do approve of the licensing and proper training/screening of new owners. raising our children properly.
That's my point. .Democrats in particular, having been pumping enormous sums of money into the ghetto under the guise of "social programs". All this has done, is increase the Democratic voters base, and yield generations of individuals who are incapable of instilling values in their children, since they have very few of their own.

what we have in Canada does work for ,again, the legal gun owners .but these laws don't work for the big drug dealers and gunrunners .who have to get caught at something stupid like speeding .to get caught for more serious crimes .
Here you can just barely do that. The police can ticket you for speeding, but can't search the car without, "probable cause". Hence, if the driver can pass a sobriety test, more often that not, they're on their way, guns, drugs, and all.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Well, when I was a child we had "Rocky and Bullwinkle" cartoons. One day, Rocky says to Bullwinkle, you mean to tell me like like violence, people getting hit, hurt, and injured, even killed". Then Bullwinkle said, "no, I like violence because they smell so pretty". Boy, who say that coming.:D

In any event, I like violence because it's so very entertaining to watch. To quote Audrey Hepburn, "let me, entertain you":


You know, there ought to be a law against that much entertainment, not to mention those damned dragons....(They're way worse than even pit bulls)! :eek:

So now I'm sitting here thinking, "I wonder if Daenerys has a permit for those things". ;)
 
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Boilerhog146

TS Evangelist
Cool ,I like Dragons ,they are way Better than pitbulls,,who doesn't like violence?, they smell nice . I guess it all depends on where your sitting.
hardly watch movies anymore since the news is rocking so much violence these days,watching the weather can be a nail biter.
 
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wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
Well as @wiyosaya points out, capitalism and feudalism have similar income disparity traits. The fact remains, my generation, and those before it, merely grumbled something like, "the rich get richer, and the poor get poorer", and that was that.We didn't shoot up our classrooms because of petty jealousies. We made do with what we had.

Well, I'm just about maxed out on the nonsense that has pervaded this thread. I've bee told that "my generation was "desensitized to violence because there actually was a war on". To which I wonder, "when have wars actually stopped"?

In spite of the mayhem of the 60's and 70's our music had values, peace, love, and introspection being the chief thematic elematics.

Today violence is glorified under the guise of "freedom of speech". People are affected deeply by music, there's no denying or getting around that. Something which manifests itself in daily American life, values, and goals.

A major cultural breakdown is underway in America. We've simply had entirely too much, for too long. Decadence is the final penalty of any great society, and if this were Rome, I'd be expecting Attila and his Hun army to be marching down Pennsylvania Avenue, any day now.

In all honesty, I think all of you have completely missed the point. America's troubles aren't "this or that", but rather systemic.
I could not agree with you more about the problems in America being systemic in nature. I also consider that, for me anyway, I would extend "systemic" to the rest of the world, too. As I see it, pretty much every country has significant problems for which no one has yet figured out a solution. Part of the reason why no one has yet found a solution is because those who have the power think that their system is the greatest. When you think that you are the greatest and are unwilling to recognize that in being human, you have flaws, you can never see the problems that need to be solved. Introspection, as you imply and in my eyes, is key to one's own self-improvement, and I also believe that in improving one's self, one helps to improve others.

I am nearly of your generation, too, being perhaps 10-years or so younger than you, and simply put, I cannot agree that our generation was desensitized to violence because of the wars. In fact, I think it is much more exactly the opposite - our generation protested like dragons about the Vietnam War, and in so doing, demonstrated that our generation was sensitized toward violence. In part, that was because at the time, the war was distinctly seen as not good and even so, many were subject to the draft - I.e., being forced to fight and possibly die in a war that was seen as having (and probably had) little true meaning.

At the time, dying in the Vietnam war was seen as futile - much unlike dying in WWI or WWII where world-wide freedom from oppression was on the line. Pretty much every war since WWII has had significantly lesser stakes and the value of each of those wars might easily be termed questionable. Our generation saw the Vietnam War as unjust and unethical, and some died protesting against it - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kent_State_shootings At that time, our generation was willing to do something about the Vietnam War that might be compared to the mass protests planned against gun violence.

Sociologists point out the an individual's first allegiances should be to his country, the first boundary between him or her, and the world at large. Richard Nixon ended the draft, and when he did so, he cut off every draft eligible individual frrom any responsibility to anyone but themselves. As a result, our millenials have virtually taken science back hundreds of years. Back to when people thought the sun revolved around the earth. Today's youth have taken that one step further, and are now convinced the earth revolves around them as individuals. So,"Individualism", is merely a euphemism for "every man for himself", which is itself a euphemism for, "anarchy".

My generation waged a war for racial equality, and judging by the fact we've had a black president, I though that war had been won. But now, African Americans being paid millions of dollars a year to play a game, don't have the courtesy of standing for our national anthem, citing "discrimination".

It all adds up to a dying way of life, and any identity past one's own mind. And trust me, it's a issue which will undoubtedly prove to be America's undoing.
As I see it, you also make some excellent points, here, too Captain. I think that we have made progress, but there is still a long way to go.

In my eyes, at least some of those who are supposed to "protect and serve" far too often reach for that gun without considering even one iota if or how the situation might be resolved without the use of deadly force, and that because they are viewed as "protecting and serving", they are far too often not held accountable for their actions. My bet is that there are instances of questionable "protect and serve" shootings that cross racial boundaries - though those that do not are not click-bait worthy, and far less publicized. In fact, there was a recent headline about a cop being fired for not shooting someone - https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/the-watch/wp/2016/09/12/west-virginia-cop-fired-for-not-killing-a-man-with-an-unloaded-gun/

It is an interesting read, and I think it helps emphasize my point. And once again, I think this points to problems that are systemic in nature.

And if I dare, I again mention that meditation teacher who had called the police to report a crime that was killed by a jumpy cop with a gun. As I see it, there was nothing racial or religious about it - rather that was yet another symptom of the systemic nature of the problems that exist today.

Much as you imply, my bet is that if one were to take a careful, objective look at the state of things in the US at this point, it does very nearly look like the state of things before the "advanced" empires of the past fell.

I think that you have in part hit on one of the major symptoms of the systemic problems in that there seem to be so many people out there that can think of no one other than themselves.

It's the same issue with heroin and fentanyl now. The fed can't stem the flow of drugs from Afghanistan and China, (among many other actors), so they're scapegoating ouyr doctors for pain meds. Are some doctors at fault? Sure. Are they the biggest problem, Hardly.
About this, as I understand it from this article - https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2017/investigations/dea-drug-industry-congress/

A handful of members of Congress, allied with the nation’s major drug distributors, prevailed upon the DEA and the Justice Department to agree to a more industry-friendly law, undermining efforts to stanch the flow of pain pills, according to an investigation by The Washington Post and “60 Minutes.” The DEA had opposed the effort for years.

The law was the crowning achievement of a multifaceted campaign by the drug industry to weaken aggressive DEA enforcement efforts against drug distribution companies that were supplying corrupt doctors and pharmacists who peddled narcotics to the black market. The industry worked behind the scenes with lobbyists and key members of Congress, pouring more than a million dollars into their election campaigns.
More evidence of systemic problems?

Personally, I do not think that the end to gun violence is arming everyone in America. There are enough hot heads out there at this time that if everyone were armed, my bet is gun violence would go up - way up.

Arming teachers, too, will also not necessarily help. Certainly, not all teachers are going to have the stomach, even in an under-fire situation, to shoot and kill someone else.

And I know 2nd amendment supporters will enjoy flaming me for this - but - I think it is arguable that at this point in time, the US has a "well-regulated militia" though I also think that there are some in that well-regulated militia that should not be allowed near any gun - especially those that meet the criteria of the stereotypical overweight, doughnut loving, out-of-shape and of average or below IQ.

Unfortunately, to me anyway, the gun violence is yet another symptom of the systemic nature of the problems, so while working to quell the gun violence might eliminate one of the symptoms, will it really make things better? Certainly, less gun violence will help, but that is no guarantee that the frustrations of living within a systemically problem riddled society will not surface in some other form.

That said, I do not think that everyone should stop looking for solutions even if the solutions that are tried fail - at least we would be looking, and hopefully, there will be lessons learned along the way so that the next attempt at a solution will improve on the last.

Though things might be seen differently from different eyes, I think it likely that all of us want to find a better way. Now if we can only help each other recognize that.
 
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