Bitcoin passes $50,000 after second-largest mortgage lender in the US reveals plans to...

midian182

Posts: 7,284   +65
Staff member
What just happened? One reason more people don't own crypto such as Bitcoin is the small number of companies currently accepting it as payment, but that's starting to change. United Wholesale Mortgage (UWM), the second-largest mortgage lender in the United States, has announced that customers will be able to pay their mortgage using BTC later this year.

In the company's second-quarter earnings last week, CEO Mat Ishbia said, "We've evaluated the feasibility, and we're looking forward to being the first mortgage company in America to accept cryptocurrency to satisfy mortgage payments."

UWM doesn't plan to accept just Bitcoin; it is also considering supporting other cryptocurrencies, including Ethereum. "We're going to walk before we run, but at the same time, we are definitely a leader in technology and innovation and we are always trying to be the best and the leader in everything we do," Ishbia told The Detroit Free Press. "That's the plan. Obliviously there's no guarantees — we're still working through some details. But absolutely."

UWM's decision will be a welcome one for crypto proponents. A recent study found that most cryptocurrency holders and non-holders would be interested in using it to make online purchases, especially if doing so offered benefits such as more security, privacy, or discounts. But the second most common reason why people had not bought any crypto was it not being mainstream enough/accepted enough—the first was their lack of knowledge.

July saw Bitcoin slump to its lowest price since the start of the year, but BTC has rebounded recently, helping push the crypto market's total value over $2 trillion. It reached $50,000 a few hours ago, doubtlessly aided by UWM's announcement, marking its highest point since May.

Permalink to story.

 

VitalyT

Posts: 6,028   +6,391
Now that the next housing bubble puts banking greed on top of the crypto scam, the collapse of this one will be f. spectacular! Oh my, I'm getting the front seats!

Whoever said we don't learn from past mistakes - wrong, we learn how to make things progressively worse.
 
Last edited:

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,457   +6,251
#1 The housing market is highly inflated (a bubble)

#2 Mortgage crisis is right around the corner - especially for landlords.

#3 a speculative asset like Bitcoin whose value has increased/decreased by more than 30% rapidly will never be stable enough to be used for large payments like "a house". One day your bitcoin is worth $50,000 but the next it could be worth $30,000. Months ago it was worth $64,000. That's not stable at all.
 

Uncle Al

Posts: 8,352   +7,164
Yeah, it is a wonder that the IRS and other financial institutions haven't screamed bloody murder as well as pass a proletary of laws to knock it back down. Of course, those that got in early are bragging about their earnings, but we'll see how many wait just a day too long to sell off ....... oh the tears will flow!
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,735   +5,175
#1 The housing market is highly inflated (a bubble)

#2 Mortgage crisis is right around the corner - especially for landlords.

#3 a speculative asset like Bitcoin whose value has increased/decreased by more than 30% rapidly will never be stable enough to be used for large payments like "a house". One day your bitcoin is worth $50,000 but the next it could be worth $30,000. Months ago it was worth $64,000. That's not stable at all.
Yes, that will make for an interesting payment method - especially when on one day, someone may have paid off their mortgage in bitcoin, and then the next day, bitcoin drastically drops and the mortgage company starts claiming that that same someone has to pay more because of the drop in the "value" of bitcoin.

Yeah, it is a wonder that the IRS and other financial institutions haven't screamed bloody murder as well as pass a proletary of laws to knock it back down. Of course, those that got in early are bragging about their earnings, but we'll see how many wait just a day too long to sell off ....... oh the tears will flow!
Unfortunately, enough 💩has yet to hit the fan. I'm betting it will only be a matter of time until enough 💩does hit the fan that crapto will become heavily regulated.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 461   +813
Now that the next housing bubble combines banking greed with crypto scam, the collapse of this one will be f. spectacular. I'm getting the front seats.
Don't forget about the $28 trillion US debt... that needs to burst at some point soon™.

And that will affect the entire world. Yeah front row seats for everyone...
 

Dimitriid

Posts: 1,330   +2,593
Yes, that will make for an interesting payment method - especially when on one day, someone may have paid off their mortgage in bitcoin, and then the next day, bitcoin drastically drops and the mortgage company starts claiming that that same someone has to pay more because of the drop in the "value" of bitcoin

Or the other way around: you send payment in full through bitcoin but after a crash ups! Landlord now demands another payment or threatens eviction since the value dropped by the time they got around to process it to USD and that's somehow covered in their contract.
 
Last edited:

NightAntilli

Posts: 787   +994
#1 The housing market is highly inflated (a bubble)

#2 Mortgage crisis is right around the corner - especially for landlords.

#3 a speculative asset like Bitcoin whose value has increased/decreased by more than 30% rapidly will never be stable enough to be used for large payments like "a house". One day your bitcoin is worth $50,000 but the next it could be worth $30,000. Months ago it was worth $64,000. That's not stable at all.
#1 True

#2 True

#3 False. There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. That means that it is the most stable asset that has ever existed. Its value cannot be printed away, and the amount that is being created is set in stone and known to everyone (that is willing to do his/her homework).

It is not the value of Bitcoin that is actually changing. One Bitcoin today is still one Bitcoin tomorrow and will still be one Bitcoin 100 years from now, unlike the dollar, which is one dollar today and 95 cents the next year, and 90 the next.
If we did away with all fiat currencies tomorrow and priced everything in Bitcoin and Satoshis, we would have the most stable currency backing a completely free market, instead of a manipulated currency backing capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,457   +6,251
#1 True

#2 True

#3 False. There will only ever be 21 million Bitcoin. That means that it is the most stable asset that has ever existed. Its value cannot be printed away, and the amount that is being created is set in stone and known to everyone (that is willing to do his/her homework).

It is not the value of Bitcoin that is actually changing. One Bitcoin today is still one Bitcoin tomorrow and will still be one Bitcoin 100 years from now, unlike the dollar, which is one dollar today and 95 cents the next year, and 90 the next.
If we did away with all fiat currencies tomorrow and priced everything in Bitcoin and Satoshis, we would have the most stable currency backing a completely free market, instead of a manipulated currency backing capitalism for the poor and socialism for the rich.


#3 is true s well. Bitcoin's value is based on the Dollar value.

That's why you say that right now at this moment Bitcoin is $49,900 (instead of the $50,000 it was at 6AM)
 

emmzo

Posts: 361   +343
Is greed and more greed and when reality catches up, the poor take the bills. It`s actually a better method to siphon wealth from sheep, because it`s not regulated and who`s to blame, but their...greed. With 2% of accounts holding over 95% of all Bitcoin, I don`t think it`s hard to imagine how the ups and downs are timed and nicely choreographed.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 787   +994
#3 is true s well. Bitcoin's value is based on the Dollar value.

That's why you say that right now at this moment Bitcoin is $49,900 (instead of the $50,000 it was at 6AM)
Gold's value is also expressed in dollars. Does that mean that its value is based on the dollar? I think we both know that is not true.

That its value can (somewhat) be expressed in dollars does not mean that it is based on the dollar nor dependent on the dollar. Bitcoin does not need the dollar to exist nor to have value. That is why people in countries like Nigeria, Argentina, Venezuela etc can use it independently of their local currency and of any sanctions that have been imposed.

Bitcoin works completely independently from the traditional financial system, which is why it has been under attack so much;
The ones in power require maintaining the current global financial system in place to keep their power, and Bitcoin is an actual threat to that.

Bitcoin was and is a direct answer to 2008. I recommend watching the documentary Inside Job on Netflix. Not much to do with Bitcoin, but, everything to do with the problems of the current financial system.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,735   +5,175
Gold's value is also expressed in dollars. Does that mean that its value is based on the dollar? I think we both know that is not true.
Since gold is traded based on a conversion to some currency, I think it is fallacy to assume that its value has nothing to do with currency.
That its value can (somewhat) be expressed in dollars does not mean that it is based on the dollar nor dependent on the dollar. Bitcoin does not need the dollar to exist nor to have value. That is why people in countries like Nigeria, Argentina, Venezuela etc can use it independently of their local currency and of any sanctions that have been imposed.

Bitcoin works completely independently from the traditional financial system, which is why it has been under attack so much;
Keep telling us that. Maybe you will believe it, too. Bitcoin, and other crapto, need to be translated to a currency for people to be able to spend it. Just because you say so, or based on the "ultimate" limit of whatever the hell the number of bitcoins that will be produced does not give it any value. People exchanging it for currency of some sort is what gives it value. To claim that it has value on its own even though it is inextricably linked to currency like the USD, is, to me, just another excuse that people who "invest" in it use to convince themselves that their "investment" is sound.
The ones in power require maintaining the current global financial system in place to keep their power, and Bitcoin is an actual threat to that.

Bitcoin was and is a direct answer to 2008. I recommend watching the documentary Inside Job on Netflix. Not much to do with Bitcoin, but, everything to do with the problems of the current financial system.
I am not going to contest that the world's financial systems are screwed up. However, I do not see bitcoin, or any other crapto currency, as an answer to inequitablity of the world's financial systems.

That some country/individual can use irrespective of monetary sanctions still does not make it independent of the world's financial system - especially when it has to be converted to/from some major currency to be useful in practice. Its a simple mathematical problem of equivalence. If A = B and B = C A = C.

Now tell me I am making it too simplified without explaining where its true value lies, which, to me, would make your argument no more compelling than mine.
No it's not based on the dollar value at All...
So from where does it derive its value? Crapto was designed to insure transaction integrity, as I understand it. That, in an of itself, does not make it valuable. Right now, I see it as the equivalent of a collector's item, nothing more.
 

NightAntilli

Posts: 787   +994
Since gold is traded based on a conversion to some currency, I think it is fallacy to assume that its value has nothing to do with currency.
As soon as there is a trade, it automatically implies a conversion of value of some sort. Since the dollar is still the main trading tool so to speak, pretty much everything will have a valuation in dollars. That does not mean that its valuation is dependent on dollars. They can easily be traded for other things.

Keep telling us that. Maybe you will believe it, too. Bitcoin, and other crapto, need to be translated to a currency for people to be able to spend it.
No. You can go to Newegg right now, and exchange your Bitcoin directly for a product, without the need of converting anything to dollars or any other currency.

Just because you say so, or based on the "ultimate" limit of whatever the hell the number of bitcoins that will be produced does not give it any value. People exchanging it for currency of some sort is what gives it value. To claim that it has value on its own even though it is inextricably linked to currency like the USD, is, to me, just another excuse that people who "invest" in it use to convince themselves that their "investment" is sound.
Why does the USD have value?

I am not going to contest that the world's financial systems are screwed up. However, I do not see bitcoin, or any other crapto currency, as an answer to inequitablity of the world's financial systems.
Well... What are the main problems according to you?

That some country/individual can use irrespective of monetary sanctions still does not make it independent of the world's financial system - especially when it has to be converted to/from some major currency to be useful in practice. Its a simple mathematical problem of equivalence. If A = B and B = C A = C.

Now tell me I am making it too simplified without explaining where its true value lies, which, to me, would make your argument no more compelling than mine.
See Newegg example above.

So from where does it derive its value? Crapto was designed to insure transaction integrity, as I understand it. That, in an of itself, does not make it valuable. Right now, I see it as the equivalent of a collector's item, nothing more.

KEY TAKEAWAYS
  • Currencies have value because they can function as a store of value and a unit of exchange.
  • Successful currencies have six key attributes—scarcity, divisibility, utility, transportability, durability, and counterfeitability.
  • The cryptocurrency Bitcoin has value because it holds up very well when it comes to these six characteristics, although its biggest issue is its status as a unit of exchange because most businesses have yet to accept it as payment.
  • Bitcoin's utility and transferability are challenged by difficulties surrounding the cryptocurrency storage and exchange spaces.
  • However, if Bitcoin gains scale and captures 15% of the global currency market (assuming all 21 million bitcoins in circulation), the total price per bitcoin would be roughly $514,000.


The US dollar fails at at least two of those six attributes;
Scarcity and counterfeitability.
And because it fails at those two, it automatically also fails at durability.

Bitcoin has all of the necessary properties. The only thing that's missing is... Widespread adoption. But that is happening, and will not slow down anytime soon...
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,912   +815
Bitcoin it seems is still growth currency. That means it will swing in value while much of the world is still deciding it's value. As time goes along and there is more buy in, then it will most likely become more stable unto full saturation. It's the gold standard to crypto coins as physical gold is to fiat currencies.

As far as criminal use. Criminal use is also associated with fiat currencies as well. And that doesn't remove implications of governments themselves involved in criminal activity. They all are. They just have the optics of legitimacy. Top secret and classified designations hide a whole lot of governmental criminal activity. They have lost the people's faith. Change is needed. Crypto may be an agent to that change.