Brazil fines Apple $2 million for choosing not to ship chargers with the iPhone 12

arrowflash

Posts: 324   +333
This article did not explain what specific law was broken. Does Brazil have a law stating that all electronic devices must come with a power source? If so, Apple clearly broke that law. If not, what is the specific violation?

I'm not sure the specifics but yes, Apple has violated some law or regulation.

I believe it's related to a law stating that products must be sold in fully functional form without any tie-in purchase requirement, and a phone sold without a charger isn't considered a fully functional product - the requirement to separately purchase a charger would constitute a tie-in sale (however things can get muddy if consumers are not required to use a charger that's sold / manufactured by Apple).

Also, addressing some other comments - the fine might seem ridiculous but it was just the first one. If Apple doesn't fix the issue they might issue more (and probably higher) fines, and the violating products could be taken off the market.
 

quadibloc

Posts: 269   +162
I had thought Apple had dropped the charger because now it can only be charged externally through magnetic induction. This wastes energy, and has an environmental impact. And I thought they did so because this way they can avoid having any connectors in their phones; some jurisdictions have laws requiring them to use the standard USB-C connector if they use a connector, and that's their way of getting around that.
Because of this, I would not object if a democratic government took Apple to task.
 

Puiu

Posts: 4,485   +3,320
TechSpot Elite
What a moronic decision.

Yes people hate Apple because they are the market leaders and charge premium prices. This sort of success always attracts hate, albeit usually from the lowest common denominators among us.

But think about this, this sets a precedent. Now if a company wants to make an environmentally friendly decision they have to do so without let making profit in the process or risk getting fined. Which means basically companies won’t bother.

People need to put the environment above their petty irrational hatred/jealousy of a successful corporation.

Removing the charger is an excellent decision from Apple. The people calling for Apple to reverse it are disgusting human beings.
Wrong, the companies need to show good faith and provide evidence of their claims. All Apple did was increase their profits while not passing on the savings to consumers.

Not to mention the fact that Apple is selling chargers with a pretty huge profit margin. Most people will buy the "official" charger not knowing any better. Instead of saving a few pennies, you end up paying a lot more.

I guess fanboys will defend Apple for everything.
 
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Bobbydpue

Posts: 68   +46
I wish Apple would hire me, just so when they get these frivolous lawsuits, I could be the person there to hand shred them in the best industrial shredder money can buy.

I'm actually willing to work for free.


Did you even read the article at all? How can Apple say "you have chargers from previous iPhones you don't need another" then includes a power cord incompatible with previous iPhones chargers? Do you think Apple really is that interested in saving the environment more than profits? From the company that charges $200 for 8GB of RAM I'm thinking they are looking at profits and using the cover of "the environment" to make it okay for the public which is exactly what this lawsuit is about.

Apple is likely saving a lot of money being able to ship more phones per shipment and from not having to include a charger and then Apple isn't likely passing the savings onto the customer, which is what this lawsuit is about.
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 68   +46
I stand by it. If Apples profits or the minor inconvenience of buying your own charger is more important to you than big corporations reducing plastic waste then you are a deplorable person.
How is there any reduction in waste having to buy a seperate charger and seperate cable in their own separate packing which is put into a separate boxes for shipping? One plastic bubble pack and outer box for the charger, a plastic bubble pack and box for the cable and a box each for shipping that's two plastic bubble packs and 4 boxes rather than one slightly larger box do you see any reduction in waste in that scenario?

And then there is the cable in the box that's USB-C to Lightning. If they cared about the environment they would have gotten rid of that connector a long time ago.
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 68   +46
Is anyone in this comment thread living in reality?

Most won’t order a new charger. Most already have one. This decision saved a tonne of emissions.

/thread
The cables that comes with the iPhone 12 isn't compatible with their old chargers. This increased the amount of wasted plastics and encourages new users to buy a new charger to go with the new cable. Also none of the old Apple chargers were capable of quick charging, while newer iPhones had that feature making people buy quick chargers so they could use a feature Apple marketed.
 
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QuantumPhysics

Posts: 4,721   +5,131
Did you even read the article at all? How can Apple say "you have chargers from previous iPhones you don't need another" then includes a power cord incompatible with previous iPhones chargers? Do you think Apple really is that interested in saving the environment more than profits? From the company that charges $200 for 8GB of RAM I'm thinking they are looking at profits and using the cover of "the environment" to make it okay for the public which is exactly what this lawsuit is about.

Apple is likely saving a lot of money being able to ship more phones per shipment and from not having to include a charger and then Apple isn't likely passing the savings onto the customer, which is what this lawsuit is about.


If Apple included a power brick I never would have used it because I have a USBC 100W GaN Charger. Works perfectly.

If Brazil has a problem, Apple needs to hire me to properly “file” their grievances.
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 68   +46
If Apple included a power brick I never would have used it because I have a USBC 100W GaN Charger. Works perfectly.

If Brazil has a problem, Apple needs to hire me to properly “file” their grievances.
You clearly didn't read my post before posting a response. My post had nothing to do with demanding they include a charger. It has everything to do with Apple making a claim they are saving the environment by not including a charger saying people would have chargers from a previous phone purchase, but Apple includes a cable not compatible with previous chargers while selling one that is. Also the claims the reduced packaging saves the environment doesn't take into account the packaging from buying a seperate charger which is 40%- 50% more materials than making the phone box slightly larger for those people who would buy a charger anyway.

You bought a new charger because you wanted to use fast charging which is exactly what Apple wanted you to do, but that new charger comes with extra packing and since you didn't use their old chargers that removes the whole "we saved the environment by not including a charger" excuse.

Apple just needs to be honest. They are not saving the environment by not including chargers, since they are still manufacturing them and they aren't passing any of their savings to the customer. That's what this fine is about. An additional charger, bought separately will have additional packaging and if bought online will have to be packed in another box and then shipped separately increasing the impact on the environment even more than just putting a charger in the original box.

"Apple needs to hire me to properly “file” their grievances." What are you going to do? You don't know how to do research or use critical thinking. The reason Apple has been given a fine isn't even a slap on the wrist. $2 million for Apple is like $2 to most people.

Here is the part of the article where Procon-SP worked with Apple to get answers to their questions, but Apple stopped cooperating:

"Last November, Procon-SP announced that they were investigating Apple’s decision to remove the charger. But midway through their investigation, Apple reportedly stopped responding to requests for information. Procon-SP weren't able to get clear answers to their key queries, which sought to determine if Apple passed on their cost savings to the consumer, and if Apple slowed charger production. Without a response, the agency was forced to reach a guilty verdict."

From the 9to5Mac article:

"Now, Procon says that Apple didn’t respond when asked if the iPhone 12’s price was reduced after removing the charger, what’s the price of the iPhone with and without the charger, and if it reduced the number of chargers produced." Seems like simple and fair questions to me, but Apple wasn't about to admit they charge the same amount or more and they still made had just as many phone chargers as they would have.

And just like another poster said if Apple really cared about the environment they would have given people the option to have a charger and a cable or not.
 
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Unusual Kmc

Posts: 86   +110
Is apple... actually that deluded?

People know that apple doesn't give a rats *** about the environment, the only reason they removed the charger was to increase the amount of money they earned. Why even bother dressing it up as being "environmentally friendly" when the people buying your products know you just want more money?
 
I just bought a new IPhone 12 Pro Max because I needed a new phone and I wanted something with the best Camera.
That last point is questionable as far as I’m concerned but that’s another argument.

The point is I bought another iPhone because I hate the Android OS and can get on with it so Apple has me by the balls.

Do I like Apple? Hell no. The people that work there are fine, they are talented, imaginative individuals that unfortunately work for a select few of elitist a*******s. Do Apple overcharge for their products? The answer is Yes. Do they use sneaky methods to get customers to spend more money on higher spec tech when the difference between 256GB and 512GB is negligible? Yes. Are they using pathetic excuses about saving the environment to save a few bucks? Hell Yes.

They’re nothing but tight arse conniving w*****s in my humble opinion. I’m sure if the board at the top read this they would laugh and say something like “I’m the one making the millions!” with a smug look. I have zero respect for a company that prides itself on being one of the richest in the world yet does nothing to give back to society.

And don’t say they have. If they’d done anything substantial it would be all over the news instead the only big stories that stick in people’s minds are ones of slave labour and people dying from illegal mining.

So stick that in your pipe and smoke it Apple. You may have my money but you don’t have my respect.
 

sac39507

Posts: 385   +204
How can I sue someone too even after I've been informed in advanced:

examples:

1. Be careful of hot coffee because it will burn
2. Don't put glue in hair because it will be sticky
3. Don't commit crimes because police will beat you
4. Don' buy iphones because you will not get a charger
 

Bobbydpue

Posts: 68   +46
How can I sue someone too even after I've been informed in advanced:

examples:

1. Be careful of hot coffee because it will burn
2. Don't put glue in hair because it will be sticky
3. Don't commit crimes because police will beat you
4. Don' buy iphones because you will not get a charger

Where do you see a lawsuit in this article? Did you read the article at all? Clearly you didn't or you'd know it wasn't specifically about not including a charger it was about claims of reduced environment impact even though that impact turns out to be negative since they include a cable not compatible with previous iPhone chargers and the packaging to buy a charger is a lot more environmental impact than a slightly larger iPhone box. And if Apple still had just as many chargers made then the impact to the environment is actually increased due to the increased amount of packing.

PROCON-SP worked with Apple to gather all the facts and Apple just stopped responding when they were asked how many new chargers they had manufactured and if the price was reduced on the phone without the charger which would have been passing along some of the savings to the customer. If Apple wasn't in the wrong why did they stop responding after they had been?

 

sac39507

Posts: 385   +204
Apparently you didn't read the article either. The article specifically states the main concern was whether savings from not including the charger was passed on to the customers. The other stuff you listed was IN ADDITION to the charger issue.

The lawsuit part is what I would do, not what Brazil did. I never mentioned them suing. Obviously I couldn't "fine" Apple but I could sue as an individual consumer.
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,608   +691
I think it will in the end. I'm increasingly reusing chargers and also use combined plug and usb charging wall adapters. Not fast charging, but it's fine and fast charging is overrated. Apple should have just made the switch to usb-c while they were at it. They can still sell the lightning paraphernalia as needed.
 

Watzupken

Posts: 131   +101
2 mil is loose change for Apple.

I was somewhat upset with Apple when they drop the charger, but I was more upset with Apple when they continued to ship crappy 5W chargers for phones that cost over 1K. While I don't think it is a secret that they are trying to cut all possible cost, and not because they want to be "green", but I don't think it will benefit us if they continue to ship 5W chargers. They tend to be left in the box and I end up using my own type C chargers.