E-waste recycler Eric Lundgren loses appeal, must serve 15-month sentence and pay $50,000...

Yeah... the new business model is to give things away for free... tons of money to be made there... meanwhile, MS made over $6 Billion in profits last quarter... you tell them their business model is obsolete :)
Perhaps you have not heard of companies like Red Hat or Ubuntu or even OpenWhisperSystems??? Making money out of free and open source software is possible ;-) Wake up buddy...
 
Perhaps you have not heard of companies like Red Hat or Ubuntu or even OpenWhisperSystems??? Making money out of free and open source software is possible ;-) Wake up buddy...
Yeah... they're making way more money than Microsoft... Red Hat's YEARLY revenue was under 3 billion.... not too shabby - but MS' PROFITS last QUARTER were over 6 Billion... I'd prefer to wake up to Microsoft thank you very much...
 
Perhaps you have not heard of companies like Red Hat or Ubuntu or even OpenWhisperSystems??? Making money out of free and open source software is possible ;-) Wake up buddy...
There is a window of appeal for Linux systems. I use mine as a router and gateway which I have customized to fit my needs, and IMO, it does that job very well. Then again, I have some clue of what I am doing, well, at least I like to think I do anyway. ;)

However, I stick with Windows for most of the productivity work that I do. The trouble with open source, as I see it anyway, is that it is open source. The distros themselves, like openSuSE, for instance are well supported, but beyond that, the open source community seems to be a relative hodge-podge of software where it is sometimes very difficult to find support. Not everyone is a programmer capable of fixing bugs in their software. To use software on a professional level, there must be support. A mechanical engineer working in a professional environment, for instance, needs a stable cad environment that is supported by a mature base - and most packages of that type are only available for Windows.
 
Something doesn't make sense. to get a jail sentence and fine for something that seems legal to me?
Why does this seem legal to you?!? He sold stuff that doesn’t belong to him. In what world is that legal?!?
He didn't steal anything, he was recycling computers. If I recycle cars and bought a BMW and want to sell the wheels on, who owns the wheels? Me or BMW???
 
He didn't steal anything, he was recycling computers.
First and foremost, the Fed didn't spank him for "recycling computers". His court case and the resultant jail term, is the result of him printing and distributing copyrighted software

If I recycle cars and bought a BMW and want to sell the wheels on, who owns the wheels? Me or BMW???
This bizzare "apples and oranges" comparison is the result of you knowing virtually nothing about copyright law.

You are obviously free to sell the wheels off any used car, including those from a Beemer. What you can't do, is COPY those wheels, and distribute them.

The design of the wheels would almost certanly be patented. So, if you copied the wheels exactly, you would be guilty of patent infringement..

If those wheels contained the BMW logo, you would also be guilty of infringing on BMW's trademark.

The used pre-built computer market has some uncertainty as to whether or not the installed copy of Windows survives the transfer of ownership. Very obviously, M$ would like it to die. However, the installed copy of Windows, is licensed to the machine itself, and whomever has possession of it can easily rerinstall and reactivate the same version only, as long as they have the activation code, which is, and legally must be, on the COA sticker attached to the machine.

So yeah, Granny can download and install restore software from the maker, onto the laptop you gave here, as long as she she has the activation code, without fear of legal penalty.
 
He didn't steal anything, he was recycling computers. If I recycle cars and bought a BMW and want to sell the wheels on, who owns the wheels? Me or BMW???
No one said he was "stealing"... he was illegally selling stuff that didn't belong to him - and left the company (MS) logo on the restore discs he was selling.
Selling the wheels off of your car in no way compares to this.... but if you were to purchase a few thousand BMWs, took off the wheels, and sold those wheels to car repair shops somewhere, you WOULD be facing legal consequences.
 
No one said he was "stealing"... he was illegally selling stuff that didn't belong to him - and left the company (MS) logo on the restore discs he was selling.
Selling the wheels off of your car in no way compares to this.... but if you were to purchase a few thousand BMWs, took off the wheels, and sold those wheels to car repair shops somewhere, you WOULD be facing legal consequences.
How do you figure? If you paid for the cars, the wheels are yours to do with as you choose.

This comparison at at least as bizzare our noobs.

Mr. Lundgren, while downloading and burning Dell's software, established himself in the role of a "manufacturer". This by virtue of copying and burning discs of copyrighted material.

The only way you could get into trouble with automobile wheels, would be to manufacture exact copies of the wheels. That's patent infringement.

Note that you can buy aftermarket wheels to fit a BMW, but they can't be identical to the OEM product, or contain BMW's logotype. In other words...BMW@ < (pretend that "a" is an "r").. is a registered trademark. You would have to buy copies of the exact BMW part, from a BMW dealer.

Besides, buying several thousand BMWs simply to sell the wheels, is a patently stupid concept anyway. Unless of course, you could buy whole BMWs for less that you can get in return for selling the wheels.:D

That type of business does exist after a fashion, but only to a certain extent. They're called, "junkyards".
 
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How do you figure? If you paid for the cars, the wheels are yours to do with as you choose.

Note that you can buy aftermarket wheels to fit a BMW, but they can't be identical to the OEM product, or contain BMW's logotype. In other words...BMW@ < (pretend that "a" is an "r").. is a registered trademark. You would have to buy copies of the exact BMW part, from a BMW dealer.
.

That would have been my point - the wheels are NOT yours to do with as you see fit... reselling them as BMW wheels would be illegal. No one would bother you if it was just your car.... but if you did it with LOTS, you'd see BMW coming after you - no way they're going to let you start your own "parts shop" without giving them a cut... (obviously you wouldn't just be selling the wheels, you'd sell engines, doors, etc as well).

The same with these Windows repair disks.... you simply sell your own disk, along with the PC that came with it, and no one is going to prosecute you... but try it with several thousand... now you're looking at jail time.
 
That would have been my point - the wheels are NOT yours to do with as you see fit... reselling them as BMW wheels would be illegal. No one would bother you if it was just your car.... but if you did it with LOTS, you'd see BMW coming after you - no way they're going to let you start your own "parts shop" without giving them a cut... (obviously you wouldn't just be selling the wheels, you'd sell engines, doors, etc as well).
OK, how about if we compromise? The situation with selling thousands of BMW wheels, would be almost impossible to develop to begin with, which is why I consider it a fairly ludicrous, "apples to oranges", comparison. Which BTW, I also realize you didn't start.

There are "recycled auto parts enterprises", (AKA "high end junkyards"), which specialize in parts for luxury brands.

With that being said, such a business might sell "thousands (?)" of Beemer wheels over the years. They would, or at least should, be able to do so without rejoinder from Blah, blah, Motor Werken.

I'm sticking mostly with my premise that you would have to manufacture exact replicas of BMW's product, before they truly had legal standing to pursue patent infringement charges. Under those circumstances, then the comparison between printing restore discs and duplicating BMW's wheel would be a direct simile, albeit under a different set of legal statutes

The irony is, that a consumer does have more rights with respect to how he or she disposes of physical goods, as opposed to "intellectual property'. Copyright law is way more limiting, and now extends its protections to at least 75 years.

Patent rights expire much sooner, as is evidenced by "generic drugs". Big pharma, is constantly trying to find, and bring to the forefront, newly discovered off label uses of an existing drug approaching patent expiration, in order to extend patent rights on said product for another term.

In the alternative, drug makers can move a molecule here or there, and file for a patent on the "new drug". This is happening right now, as the patent on "Abilify" has exired, and in its place is, "the new and vastly more effective Rexulti", which is very close in terms of molecular composition. (These are both anti-depressants, so it's pretty much all in the patients head to begin with, and drug makers will tell pretty much any story they want, and get away with it).

The same with these Windows repair disks.... you simply sell your own disk, along with the PC that came with it, and no one is going to prosecute you... but try it with several thousand... now you're looking at jail time.
I made this exact point weeks ago to Mr. Lundgren himself. Dell indeed offers "free restore disc downloads". However, (in spite of the fact I wasn't up for wading through a dozen pages of EULA), I'm pretty sure the concept and intent was that this software was intended for legitimate individuals, (or corporate), owners of a Dell product.

The same rules would attach to a second owner of a Dell computer, since the copy of windows is licensed to the machine, not the owner. So, said 2nd owner could also download a Dell restore ISO, with impunity.

I'm also pretty confident that if a legitimate repair shop downloaded Dell's software, in pursuit of repairing a customer's machine, no action would ariise. That's even if that fell slightly outside of the strict constrution of said EULA. Just a wink and a nudge sort of transaction.

As I said in an earlier post, Lundgren is bordering on being, (if not in fact), delusional. On the surface he appears to be, "pure of heart", which he will tell you over, and over, and over again, if you are foolish enough to engage him on the toipic

Nonetheless, IMHO, he's living in a fantasy world, and thinks of himself as a "social movement unto himself", and that faulty logic came back to bite him in the a**, big time.

As an example, he thinks that "planned obsolescence", is a new concept dreamed up in the past couple of years by only electronics manufacturers, and it must be stopped.

If you take the general sentiment and desires of our membership, obsolescence can't really come soon enough. How many times have you heard, "Intel isn't doing enough with each generation of CPU, to make it worth me upgrading". The money for a substantial upgrade, is burning a hole in many people's pockets. So that's pretty much tantamount to begging manufacturers for "planned obsolescence", and opposed to being bitter in any way shape or form about it.

EDIT and ADDENDUM:

OK, I suppose if you set up a store to sell BMW wheels, BMW could shut you down for not being an "authorized dealer". Still, the likelihood of someone doing that is beyond remote, and fails as an analog.

There does exist somewhat of an exception in the camera market. All of the major NYC dealers carry USA branded cameras, as well as unauthorized imports from abroad, (read "China"). Now these cameras come from the same fctories as the USA market, but wouldn't be covered under USA warranty. They're labeled "gray market", and priced somewhat lower than the intended for USA equivalent market.

AFAIK, Nikon hasn't revoked anybody's "authorized USA dealer" status over the sale of these units along with the USA models. Were a dealer not authorized to sell Nikon at all, any warranty would be null and void, including the USA warranty for USA branded cameras.

The message here is very clear, Nikon makes its money on manufacturing cameras, and "gray market" goods, limit its liability for service after the sale. It's tacitly a "win, win" for Nikon, since they still make their money as planned.

I could also see the BMW wheels issue align itself with Nikon's strategy. But still, it's pretty far fetched.

Here's a forum link on the gray market topic: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/2686121

This looks very interesting on the topic at Forbes:

https://www.forbes.com/sites/marcwe...t-cameras-what-you-need-to-know/#423e2dc456b9


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How do you figure? If you paid for the cars, the wheels are yours to do with as you choose.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Note that you can buy aftermarket wheels to fit a BMW, but they can't be identical to the OEM product, or contain BMW's logotype. In other words...BMW@ < (pretend that "a" is an "r").. is a registered trademark. You would have to buy copies of the exact BMW part, from a BMW dealer.
.

That would have been my point - the wheels are NOT yours to do with as you see fit... reselling them as BMW wheels would be illegal. No one would bother you if it was just your car.... but if you did it with LOTS, you'd see BMW coming after you - no way they're going to let you start your own "parts shop" without giving them a cut... (obviously you wouldn't just be selling the wheels, you'd sell engines, doors, etc as well).

The same with these Windows repair disks.... you simply sell your own disk, along with the PC that came with it, and no one is going to prosecute you... but try it with several thousand... now you're looking at jail time.

captaincranky is correct that you can do whatever you want with the wheels if you purchased them. Here is a link to the wikipedia page on the First Sale Doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Once the originator of a product sells the product, they have no say in any secondary sale of that specific instance of their intellectual property. Selling BMW wheels as BMW wheels is fine as long as they are authentic BMW wheels.

If you are putting a BMW logo hub cap on 3rd party wheels and trying to sell them at a premium or manufacturing knock offs and selling them as genuine BMW wheels, only then are you infringing on their intellectual property.

A fine, sure...The jail time is just ridiculous. The EULA usually says you do not own the software, you own a license to use the software. If he was distributing a cracked version, or keys from a generator (which I doubt would work out) then I could see coming down on him since he is circumventing the license.

Honestly they should have just sent him a cease and desist notice after it was discovered and the discs were seized.

I don't know why he would mimic the labels of the official discs though. Or even bother making the discs. If someone takes old computers and gets them back up and running, they probably already know they can download a recovery disc. He could have just started a social media campaign to make people aware that the software was available from the PC manufacturers.
 
captaincranky is correct that you can do whatever you want with the wheels if you purchased them. Here is a link to the wikipedia page on the First Sale Doctrine: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First-sale_doctrine

Once the originator of a product sells the product, they have no say in any secondary sale of that specific instance of their intellectual property. Selling BMW wheels as BMW wheels is fine as long as they are authentic BMW wheels.

If you are putting a BMW logo hub cap on 3rd party wheels and trying to sell them at a premium or manufacturing knock offs and selling them as genuine BMW wheels, only then are you infringing on their intellectual property.

A fine, sure...The jail time is just ridiculous. The EULA usually says you do not own the software, you own a license to use the software. If he was distributing a cracked version, or keys from a generator (which I doubt would work out) then I could see coming down on him since he is circumventing the license.

Honestly they should have just sent him a cease and desist notice after it was discovered and the discs were seized.

I don't know why he would mimic the labels of the official discs though. Or even bother making the discs. If someone takes old computers and gets them back up and running, they probably already know they can download a recovery disc. He could have just started a social media campaign to make people aware that the software was available from the PC manufacturers.
The First Sale Doctrine pertains to art, books, music.... many cases have been made regarding other materials - the legal area is a gray one at best.

And buying a BMW entitles you to resell your BMW to anyone you please... but it DOES NOT entitle you to sell parts as if you were a licensed repair shop... there tends to be all sorts of fees required to be "BMW certified" in order to do that...

And even if it DID turn out to be legal - you'd still be facing years of lawsuits until you could actually do it...
 
Maybe I am splitting hairs here, but I have never seen a Microsoft(!) labeled OS restore CD or DVD. I have seen Microsoft OS software installation media for 1.0, 2.0, 2.0, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10. The name brands I have dealt with, the big 3 of Lenovo, Dell and HPaq, all either supply "in the box" with a new computer their own sets of OS restore media customized to fit the model of the system, or they give you the option the create your own system restore media.

What Lundgren was trying to do was to make a few more bucks from his recycling efforts. The jail time and fine are pretty harsh, and I would bet that the tech-ignorant judiciary (or was it a jury?) bought whatever Microsoft had to say without challenging it. Likely Lundgren's lawyer was not up to speed on the computer biz, either. So he was unable to challenge Microsoft.

I can see the guy getting whacked with a fine and a misdemeanor, but felony and jail time is cruel, way out of proportion for the low-value stuff he was selling. The ACLU or some other organization ought to take up an appeal.
 
Maybe I am splitting hairs here, but I have never seen a Microsoft(!) labeled OS restore CD or DVD. I have seen Microsoft OS software installation media for 1.0, 2.0, 2.0, 3.1, 3.11, 95, 98, ME, NT, 2000, XP, Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10. The name brands I have dealt with, the big 3 of Lenovo, Dell and HPaq, all either supply "in the box" with a new computer their own sets of OS restore media customized to fit the model of the system, or they give you the option the create your own system restore media.
That's all well and good but......, all of those restore discs carry OEM authorized images of a licensed copy of M$ Windows. The machines they are shipped with carry a M$ Windows COA, which is affixed to the machine. M$ most definitely DOES have a stake in those restore discs, and can influence and control how they are used.

As I've said before, Mr. Lundgren is lucky the owners/publishers of any other, "value added software", contained on the restore discs chose not to enter the fray..

Now, copyright infringement and theft of intellectual property are felonies. There aren't misdemeanor statutes which excuse them to a lesser degree.

For Mr. Lundgren to be found guilty of a misdemeanor, he would have had to plead guilty to a lesser included offense. Mr. Lundgren persisted in his claim of innocence through Federal district court, and up to the Appeals Court. The laws are what they are, and for compassion to be rendered by the courts, Lundgern would have had to accept responsibility for his actions at the outset.

IMHO, M$ would have persisted in their complaint anyway, as Lundgren lived in the fantasy that he was doing battle with an evil giant, and was going to expose the giant for what he believes it is, and ultimately bring it down.

The fact is, that an 18 months is a slap on the wrist, as opposed to the maximum sentences, which I believe are 5 years, and a $250,000 fine.

And BTW, it would seem you're not exactly the lawyer Lundgren needs or needed either,.
 
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