EA believes 'surprise mechanics' and loot boxes are 'quite ethical and quite fun'

[Shadowboxer]

What part of that sentence didn't make sense?

Was that addressed at me?

But when it comes to a game being ruined by loot boxes. Well that’s the developers choice. They can make the game how they like. Unfortunately we are not entitled for developers to spend millions developing games specifically to us. If the masses are buying lootboxes then the developer can cater to them if they so choose. These are luxury entertainment items, not staples like housing or food.

It is a bit ****. But I haven’t actually had any of my favourite games ruined by lootboxes. Many of them have them in it but the devs have been careful enough to ensure that there are no pay to win mechanics.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Unfortunately we are not entitled for developers to spend millions developing games specifically to us. If the masses are buying lootboxes then the developer can cater to them if they so choose.

That is why I was putting the blame on the people buying.

 

[Ludak021]

Aren't Kinder Eggs banned in US (because of choking hazard)?

No, they are re-engineered, so you get the toy separately, outside of the chocolate part. But if kid is gonna choke, he's gonna choke anyway because some kids just put stuff in their mouths. :/

 

[Ludak021]

What part of that sentence didn't make sense?

Was that addressed at me?

But when it comes to a game being ruined by loot boxes. Well that’s the developers choice. They can make the game how they like. Unfortunately we are not entitled for developers to spend millions developing games specifically to us. If the masses are buying lootboxes then the developer can cater to them if they so choose. These are luxury entertainment items, not staples like housing or food.

It is a bit ****. But I haven’t actually had any of my favourite games ruined by lootboxes. Many of them have them in it but the devs have been careful enough to ensure that there are no pay to win mechanics.

It's not about that. It's EA running a gamble business and not paying for gambling license and gamble taxes. Loot box is a slot machine, but EA is trying to say that it's not. But it is. As such, it has to be regulated by whatever country/state has as law.
Be aware that EA's earnings come mostly from loot boxes. Some 80% of their earnings are from Fifa card packs.

Kinder Egg analogy is wrong. You pay for the chocolate, toy is irrelevant (I was a kid and ate those eggs, and didn't bother with toy most of the time because they were all rubbish), Loot box on the other hand, well, you are not after the box, you are after whats in it, and pretty much 95% of what's in it is like not getting anything on a slot machine. Sure, you get something, but it yields you nothing.

 

[captaincranky]

It's not about that. It's EA running a gamble business and not paying for gambling license and gamble taxes.

It does give one pause to wonder, how many of EA's top brass, would actually pass the background checks and meet the requirements to obtain a casino license

 

[Shadowboxer]

A

It's not about that. It's EA running a gamble business and not paying for gambling license and gamble taxes. Loot box is a slot machine, but EA is trying to say that it's not. But it is. As such, it has to be regulated by whatever country/state has as law.
Be aware that EA's earnings come mostly from loot boxes. Some 80% of their earnings are from Fifa card packs.

Kinder Egg analogy is wrong. You pay for the chocolate, toy is irrelevant (I was a kid and ate those eggs, and didn't bother with toy most of the time because they were all rubbish), Loot box on the other hand, well, you are not after the box, you are after whats in it, and pretty much 95% of what's in it is like not getting anything on a slot machine. Sure, you get something, but it yields you nothing.

A loot box is not a slot machine though. You lose every single time in a lootbox as you never have the chance to make your money back. This difference is critical, many many things in life have an aspect of chance. That doesn’t make it gambling in the legal sense.

The kinder egg analogy is absolutely relevant. You say the toy is irrelevant but it’s only irrelevant to you. I could say the same about the iteksnin a loot box. In both the kinder egg and the loot box the prize is worthless in terms of cash value.

This is the problem. People seem to think that getting an item at random is then gambling. It’s not. If it was the buying.a happy meal, football stickers or even playing Pokemon go would count as gambling.

What’s got you is that you have placed a very high value on in game items. However the mechanism behind obtaining these in game items is
Identical to that of a kinder egg or buying football stickers. When in fact they are worthless and they are. You just place your own high value on the item because you play and care about the game. But that doesn’t make it gambling. I think the contents of any loot box is irrelevant and worthless. You certainly can’t sell it so any value the contents have is not cash value.

This isn’t an opinion either, this is how laws are defined. If you think a loot box that has items that cannot be sold is gambling you are factually incorrect. This has been investigated recently and it came back as it’s not gambling;

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov..../news/2017/Loot-boxes-within-video-games.aspx

 

[ShObiT]

Just out of curiosity, how high do you have to be to even think the two are comparable?

I think he is EA's marketing team, spreading the felling of "pride and accomplishment" on forum post about their "Surprise Mechanics".

BTW, are the piracy users "Surprise owners" as someone called himself on Reddit.

 

[Polycount]

A

It's not about that. It's EA running a gamble business and not paying for gambling license and gamble taxes. Loot box is a slot machine, but EA is trying to say that it's not. But it is. As such, it has to be regulated by whatever country/state has as law.
Be aware that EA's earnings come mostly from loot boxes. Some 80% of their earnings are from Fifa card packs.

Kinder Egg analogy is wrong. You pay for the chocolate, toy is irrelevant (I was a kid and ate those eggs, and didn't bother with toy most of the time because they were all rubbish), Loot box on the other hand, well, you are not after the box, you are after whats in it, and pretty much 95% of what's in it is like not getting anything on a slot machine. Sure, you get something, but it yields you nothing.

A loot box is not a slot machine though. You lose every single time in a lootbox as you never have the chance to make your money back. This difference is critical, many many things in life have an aspect of chance. That doesn’t make it gambling in the legal sense.

The kinder egg analogy is absolutely relevant. You say the toy is irrelevant but it’s only irrelevant to you. I could say the same about the iteksnin a loot box. In both the kinder egg and the loot box the prize is worthless in terms of cash value.

This is the problem. People seem to think that getting an item at random is then gambling. It’s not. If it was the buying.a happy meal, football stickers or even playing Pokemon go would count as gambling.

What’s got you is that you have placed a very high value on in game items. However the mechanism behind obtaining these in game items is
Identical to that of a kinder egg or buying football stickers. When in fact they are worthless and they are. You just place your own high value on the item because you play and care about the game. But that doesn’t make it gambling. I think the contents of any loot box is irrelevant and worthless. You certainly can’t sell it so any value the contents have is not cash value.

This isn’t an opinion either, this is how laws are defined. If you think a loot box that has items that cannot be sold is gambling you are factually incorrect. This has been investigated recently and it came back as it’s not gambling;

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov..../news/2017/Loot-boxes-within-video-games.aspx

I think it becomes an issue when it's attached to in-game advantages; whether it's in singleplayer or multiplayer games.

As we've seen on multiple occasions, singleplayer titles have been made increasingly grindy to incentivize people to purchase ridiculous "Ork Packs" in games like Shadow of War (which were later removed for precisely that reason). It throws off progression systems and, in the eyes of both players and developers themselves, can make games less fun to play.

By the way, just so you're aware, at least a few games do in fact let you sell the stuff you get from their boxes for money.

I understand your perspective, but my point of view will always be that video games are in a completely different industry than Kinder Eggs or baseball cards, and thus require a different and more nuanced mindset when examined.

For regulators, whether that means shutting them down as Belgium has done, or adopting a more fine-tuned approach that is specifically targeted at children, or simply letting the industry "regulate itself" as it has allegedly done for the past several years, I cannot say.

 

[hahahanoobs]

Don’t be deliberately obtuse. Both are items of a set value that contains a mystery item of a set value at random. If they don’t compare can you explain why so please? And I’m aware that in game
Items are virtual and kinder eggs are physical but when morality is concerned does that matter?

If you can’t see the comparison I can’t rake you seriously. It’s even mentioned in the article. There is definitely a comparison there. I’m aware it’s a very inconvenient comparison if you are trying to create the illusion that lootboxes are “immoral” like you are. And that’s why I think you’re just being ignorant.

The two are NOT comparable.

 

[Ludak021]

A


A loot box is not a slot machine though. You lose every single time in a lootbox as you never have the chance to make your money back. This difference is critical, many many things in life have an aspect of chance. That doesn’t make it gambling in the legal sense.

The kinder egg analogy is absolutely relevant. You say the toy is irrelevant but it’s only irrelevant to you. I could say the same about the iteksnin a loot box. In both the kinder egg and the loot box the prize is worthless in terms of cash value.

This is the problem. People seem to think that getting an item at random is then gambling. It’s not. If it was the buying.a happy meal, football stickers or even playing Pokemon go would count as gambling.

What’s got you is that you have placed a very high value on in game items. However the mechanism behind obtaining these in game items is
Identical to that of a kinder egg or buying football stickers. When in fact they are worthless and they are. You just place your own high value on the item because you play and care about the game. But that doesn’t make it gambling. I think the contents of any loot box is irrelevant and worthless. You certainly can’t sell it so any value the contents have is not cash value.

This isn’t an opinion either, this is how laws are defined. If you think a loot box that has items that cannot be sold is gambling you are factually incorrect. This has been investigated recently and it came back as it’s not gambling;

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov..../news/2017/Loot-boxes-within-video-games.aspx

1. I can sell the whole account for money.
2. Ok, slot machines may not be a perfect examples. Are carnival games a better one? That grappling hook that gives you a chance to pull a toy out? (sorry, not an American here, don't know the proper name of that machine), there are many other gambling games that don't give money. But they are almost all regulated and have to have X% chance to give you an item you are after. That chance, in my country, is regulated by law, just like slot machines are, or a video poker machines.