Elon Musk, Tesla, and SpaceX face $258 billion lawsuit for allegedly running a Dogecoin...

[captaincranky]

Musk paid $11,000,000,000 in taxes last year, with an effective tax rate of 54.1% on his Tesla options. If he paid "taxes like the rest of us", he'd pay nothing whatsoever:

Wake up, Musk paid those taxes for show and publicity. Did you conveniently forget to add Space X, The Boring Company, and whatever other holdings he has, into his taxable income?.

More than 100 million U.S. households, or 61% of all taxpayers, paid no federal income taxes last year, according to a report from the Tax Policy Center...

All this proves is the fact that the "middle class", has effectively been erased. Are these militias whose members claim, "they are not subject to the laws of the United States", included in that count? Yes, the far left is dangerous, but not any more so, than the far right. ,

As an example, let's look at the push to overturn Roe v. Wade, led by "Evangelical Christians", Well, first, church and state are supposed to be separate. With that said, we should revoke tax exempt status for churches that meddle in politics..

Second, the Republican proponents of this are a pack of imbeciles. If you force all these households of the poor and "people of color", to breed prolifically, it will produce another generation of voters who will turn on you, and get rid of you.

But wait, you can fix that. You'll find a way to curtail their voting rights. All the while calling left leaning groups "Nazis". Oh, baby, baby, "Hypocr-olitics", in "action".

I think the Repubs should run Marjorie Taylor Green for president in 2024. If you want a far right imbecile in charge of the country, why stop at Trump, she's your go-to gal..

In the mean time, how about if you lay off watching Tucker Carlson, and tune in to the January 6th committee hearings?

 

[Endymio]

And you believe that crap because "He said so?"

No, I believe it because his options exercising are a matter of public record, it's trivial to calculate the tax rate on them, and Musk certainly gets regularly audited. Why not try thinking with your head for once?

It looks like Musk gave $5bn to charities in an effort to quench his tax debt.

If and when you ever make enough income to fall under AMT tax rules, you'll quickly learn the falsity of this long-discredited myth. The days of being able to save money through charitable donations ended a half-century ago. If Musk donated $5B, he reduced his tax bill by about half that -- meaning the donation cost him about $2.5 billion.

 

[Endymio]

Wake up, Musk paid those taxes for show and publicity.

Musk paid his taxes as he was legally required to. And, no matter how you wriggle and squirm from the reality, he paid more in one single year than the combined bills of 200 million Americans, added over their entire lifetimes. Instead of thanking him, you're wallowing in class jealousy-based rage. It's an inherent flaw in human nature, yes -- but a very, very dangerous one.

Did you conveniently forget to add Space X, The Boring Company, and whatever other holdings he has, into his taxable income?.

There's no need to 'conveniently forget' them because they aren't taxable income.

 

[captaincranky]

There's no need to 'conveniently forget' them because they aren't taxable income.

So Musk owns and runs Space X out of "the goodness of his heart"? It's running at a loss? How "convenient".

And how about if we skip all the "class envy" bullsh!t on my part..

Idolatry shows a certain amount of envy. Dontcha see yourself up on that stage, reveling in the fact that no matter how outrageous it may be, or whatever stupid thing you say, people will kowtow to your greatness? Physician, heal thy self.

 

[wiyosaya]

No, I believe it because his options exercising are a matter of public record, it's trivial to calculate the tax rate on them, and Musk certainly gets regularly audited. Why not try thinking with your head for once?

I think you should use your big head for once. The better answer is that no one, outside of the IRS, really knows what Musk paid in taxes. No one except you, right? Just because it's public record that he exercises those options does not mean that he paid all the tax on them. You can bet that he, or more correctly, his accountants, found plenty of ways to not pay the tax he owed.

If and when you ever make enough income to fall under AMT tax rules, you'll quickly learn the falsity of this long-discredited myth. The days of being able to save money through charitable donations ended a half-century ago. If Musk donated $5B, he reduced his tax bill by about half that -- meaning the donation cost him about $2.5 billion.

Right, in other words, fake news?? We've heard those tropes long enough. And I suppose you earn enough that you fall under the AMT rules, so you have experience with them??

Another "take my word for it" moment brought to you by Endymio. How's Selene doing?

 

[captaincranky]

How's Selene doing?

Selene?

 

[AlaskaGuy]

I think you should use your big head for once. The better answer is that no one, outside of the IRS, really knows what Musk paid in taxes. No one except you, right? Just because it's public record that he exercises those options does not mean that he paid all the tax on them. You can bet that he, or more correctly, his accountants, found plenty of ways to not pay the tax he owed.

Right, in other words, fake news?? We've heard those tropes long enough. And I suppose you earn enough that you fall under the AMT rules, so you have experience with them??

Another "take my word for it" moment brought to you by Endymio. How's Selene doing?

Musk paid $11 billion in taxes (2020).

 

[Gastec]

Not a valid premise that Doge "has no value at all". Nothing does, it's all relative. Even a gold backed currency only has value as long as people believe gold is valuable.

If we go down that rabbit hole then nothing nor anyone, no human, has value. Then we might as well just go insane now and smash our unvaluable heads against the wall.

 

[OortCloud]

No doubt being sued by the same people who were delighted when he was bigging-up their preferred snake oil brand.

 

[captaincranky]

If and when you ever make enough income to fall under AMT tax rules, you'll quickly learn the falsity of this long-discredited myth. The days of being able to save money through charitable donations ended a half-century ago. If Musk donated $5B, he reduced his tax bill by about half that -- meaning the donation cost him about $2.5 billion.

His "charitable deductions" are a but a drop in the deduction bucket. Of the top of my head, he has a 70 million dollar private jet that he can simply "write off" (including repairs, fuel, pilot, ground crew plus flight crew, and depreciation). he can simply qualify as a "business expense". That's just the tip of the iceberg..

Multi-billionaire Warren Buffet, has publicly stated, in front of TV cameras, "I pay a lower percentage of my yearly earnings in taxes than my secretary, who makes like 50 grand a year".

Not to mention the amount of tax breaks and incentives Musk has sucked up with his Tesla "start up".

I won't even quibble about the amount of taxes Musk paid this year. I will say it's about fu*king time.

And BTW, it's been said of statistics that, "they can be made to say whatever you want them to"

For example, Musk's tax bill might be very well, "54% of his holdings in Tesla", But, they certainly aren't 54% of his holdings overall..

 

[captaincranky]

No doubt being sued by the same people who were delighted when he was bigging-up their preferred snake oil brand.

Five plus million years of evolution have gifted Homo sapiens with the highest intellectual capacity of any extant or extinct animal on earth thus far. It's a pity that all we have to show for that massive brain power, is the ability to outsmart ourselves, then rationalize our stupidity, erstwhile deluding ourselves into believing that we haven't embraced either of the two aforementioned behaviors.

 

[Endymio]

Multi-billionaire Warren Buffet, has publicly stated, in front of TV cameras, "I pay a lower percentage of my yearly earnings in taxes than my secretary

I realize facts interfere with the narrative, but we're talking about Musk, not Buffett. His stock options are treated as normal income, not capital gains. Meaning he was taxed at the top marginal rate of 37.8%, plus the net investment tax of 3.8%. Also, since the options were granted in California, he pays Cali state taxes of 13.3% (the highest rate in the nation).

That's a total tax rate of 54.1% -- far higher than "Buffett's secretary" has ever paid in her life.

[Musk] has a 70 million dollar private jet that he can simply "write off" ...

Only when he uses it for business purposes. Personal flights -- even when commuting to work -- are not deductible expenses.

....including depreciation.

It's not clear that you realize how depreciation works. If the plane costs $70M, and he eventually sells it for $50M, he claims only a deduction of $20M -- the original purchase price is meaningless, and any depreciation credits he claimed in excess of $20M he must recover and pay taxes upon. Furthermore, if 50% of the time the plane was used for personal travel, then his total deduction is only half that.

 

[DaveBG]

LOL Musk stated many times and on TV as well that doge coin is a MEME coin and is just a joke. Good luck suing him for pump and dump.

 

[captaincranky]

I realize facts interfere with the narrative, but we're talking about Musk, not Buffett. His stock options are treated as normal income, not capital gains. Meaning he was taxed at the top marginal rate of 37.8%, plus the net investment tax of 3.8%. Also, since the options were granted in California, he pays Cali state taxes of 13.3% (the highest rate in the nation).

And you're still harping about what Musk paid in taxes in and om the California Tesla plant. Why do you think the's wearing a cowboy hat these days? Because he's building a plant on Texas, a state with much lower corporate tax rates. And then there's the plant in China to consider. He can either move the corporate "headquarters" to Texas. Or perhaps, rip a page out of Apple playbook, and move to Ireland..

Let's face facts. Look at all the publicity Musk is getting for "being a good boy and paying his taxes".

Then we should consider under whose name is the jet registered? It's probably registered to Tesla, and not Musk himself.

 

[captaincranky]

Musk paid $11 billion in taxes (2020).

Let's assume this is correct. I prithee tell me how could "the world's richest man", get away with not paying that amount?

He can afford to pay the tax, and then revel in the glory which the optics of the situation brings him. Not only is he "saving the world with his electric vehicles", but concomitantly, "saving the US economy",

The last I heard he was trying to arrange financing to finalize the Twitter purchase. If that's the case, he's back to his primary skill, which is talking money out of other people's pockets.

The only point we agree upon, is that this is a frivolous lawsuit, brought by people who are stupid enough to hang on every word that comes out of that mutt's mouth