FDA advises people not to use THC vapes, black market vaping products

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
But the links to the studies I posted were not conducted by the CDC. The Mayo Clinic is not the CDC. And you can scroll to the bottom of the link in the most recent article that I linked to and also discover the affiliations of the authors - again, NOT the CDC.

You just don't give up, do you?
No, I've vaped for a decade. Anyone who knows how to make eliquid knows it does not contain lipids, it does not contain oil, it is water soluble. That study is correct, however only for vaping oil based liquids (THC). They're being less than genuine by not specifically stating that important bit of information. Nicotine vaping is NOT oil based. In fact regular nicotine vapes would not be capable of vaping such a liquid. This is why ceramic coils are used in THC cartridges. They're not the same thing.

I don't give up because there is a purposely created misconception portrayed to the public that will result in more deaths related to inhaling THC oils (majority black market); more deaths due to vapers being scared back to smoking, and smokers continuing to smoke. It's about the truth. People have died and continue to die because of this.
 
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Markoni35

TS Addict
Sounds like a good time to legalize and regulate THC cartridges.
Legalize THC? Are you serious? Nowadays THC products cause psychoses, suicidal and homicidal thoughts and reduces fertility. It should be only legalized as a weapon of mass destruction.
 

treetops

TS Evangelist
You are more likely to be killed by your toaster. Injured by a toothpick.

"This convenient kitchen appliance, found in nearly every home in the world is far more deadly to humans than sharks. In fact, 700 people worldwide are killed every year by toasters. The United States alone has 300 toaster-related deaths. Most of the deaths are the result of electrical shock from sticking a knife into the slots to remove jammed toast. That is 175 times more deaths from toasters than from shark attacks."

"These small objects seem innocuous enough, but the sharp, thin shapes of toothpicks can be very dangerous. Every year 9000 people end up in the hospital from choking on toothpicks. Most toothpick victims are children between the ages of 5 and 14. Furthermore, an average of 3 people die every year from accidentally swallowing toothpicks, puncturing their internal organs. Toothpicks kill nearly as many people every year as sharks."

https://www.sharksider.com/know-dangerous-shark
/
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
No, I've vaped for a decade. Anyone who knows how to make eliquid knows it does not contain lipids, it does not contain oil, it is water soluble. That study is correct, however only for vaping oil based liquids (THC). They're being less than genuine by not specifically stating that important bit of information. Nicotine vaping is NOT oil based. In fact regular nicotine vapes would not be capable of vaping such a liquid. This is why ceramic coils are used in THC cartridges. They're not the same thing.

I don't give up because there is a purposely created misconception portrayed to the public that will result in more deaths related to inhaling THC oils (majority black market); more deaths due to vapers being scared back to smoking, and smokers continuing to smoke. It's about the truth. People have died and continue to die because of this.
You keep harping on lipids - from the other article that you apparently did not read
Although it is difficult to discount the potential role of lipid, we believe that the histologic changes instead suggest that vaping-associated lung injury represents a form of airway-centered chemical pneumonitis from one or more inhaled toxic substances rather than exogenous lipoid pneumonia as such, but the agents responsible remain unknown.
You keep treating this as if it is only your experience that matters. That is a logical fallacy.

You also keep treating this as if it is definitive that only THC products are to blame. No one, not the CDC nor the study from the New England Journal of Medicine specifically state anything along the lines of "We have determined beyond doubt that THC vaping liquids are the absolute cause of the deaths."

Perhaps, your vaping equipment is not among the type that was used in the study of toxic chemicals in the vape "smoke" which was specifically high-powered vape equipment. Did you even read that one either, or did you just blow it off because you know better from your experience?

I bet that you were railing against the anti-vaxx crowd; however, IMO, you sound a lot like the anti-vaxxers WRT this.

I wish you the best of luck in your vaping endeavors. I hope you are getting from it what you need.
 
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amghwk

TS Guru
Smoking and "Vaping" - BOTH are bad. Period. No amount of excuses and amelioration of so called vaping are going to change that.
 

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
Lipids and pesticides, both are NOT found in ejuice.

There are three problems:
  1.   1. Oils such as Vitamin E Acetate found in black market THC products and apparently a handful of legal THC products. Not ejuice.

  2.   2. Pesticides such as Hydrogen cyanide, only found in black market THC products (from cartel marijuana). Historically found in legal marijuana as well. Not ejuice.

  3.   3. Synthetic THC products from the black market. Not ejuice.


*Ejuices were tested; ZERO ejuices have been linked to these deaths.

The ONLY evidence to the contrary is a fraction of people who have refused to admit the felony of purchasing black market THC. Actual tests show no link to legal nicotine vaping or ejuice.

Media, politicians, and government organizations are using this unrelated outbreak to misinform the public to gain support in their anti-vaping crusade.


Read about the tobacco Master Settlement Agreement (MSA):


Guess what? Every state proposing a flavour or vape ban are the ones with historically highest cigarette sales, meaning the ones losing the most money from the MSA. Many are defaulting on their bonds, and they believe eliminating vaping (or handing the industry to Big Tobacco and taxed) would increase cigarette sales and help them repay their bonds.



edit: apparently there is a problem with uploaded images outside of forum view (which displays their full size). They display as thumbnails and if clicked to expand result in a 404 page not found. Uploaded images to Imgur instead.
 
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MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
While this may seem offtopic. It isn't. The result of all this hysteria and corruption is flavour bans. Banning the most important part why vaping works for smokers who cannot quit otherwise. Flavours allow smokers to disassociate their taste buds from stinky combustible tobacco.

The youth don't care about flavours, the youth are vaping high strength nicotine (50mg) in JUULs to get a head buzz. The same reason I enjoyed smoking when I started at 15 years old.

If you want to cut youth usage, lets regulate nicotine strengths as Europe already has. High strength nicotine that was introduced to the market by JUUL (aka big tobacco). Don't forget, JUUL supports the flavour ban because they know that's not what is hooking teenagers. Lets stop killing thousands of small mom and pop businesses helping adult smokers finally stop smoking.



I've ordered online from Dashvapes. They don't only verify age by Equifax (I had to upload a selfie with my ID), they also ship with required signature and card at your door through the courier. I trust their data.
 

pit1209

TS Booster
While this may seem offtopic. It isn't. The result of all this hysteria and corruption is flavour bans. Banning the most important part why vaping works for smokers who cannot quit otherwise. Flavours allow smokers to disassociate their taste buds from stinky combustible tobacco.

The youth don't care about flavours, the youth are vaping high strength nicotine (50mg) in JUULs to get a head buzz. The same reason I enjoyed smoking when I started at 15 years old.

If you want to cut youth usage, lets regulate nicotine strengths as Europe already has. High strength nicotine that was introduced to the market by JUUL (aka big tobacco). Don't forget, JUUL supports the flavour ban because they know that's not what is hooking teenagers. Lets stop killing thousands of small mom and pop businesses helping adult smokers finally stop smoking.



I've ordered online from Dashvapes. They don't only verify age by Equifax (I had to upload a selfie with my ID), they also ship with required signature and card at your door through the courier. I trust their data.
Are you James0007? because you sound a lot like him, he also was adamant in protecting e-cigarettes from being banned, I mean I don't know why you would start doing that on Techspot and even though you consider yourself as MaXtor common sense there is none of that in vaping, smoking or inhaling anything besides medications or clean air into your lungs, specially just because you want to get high.
 

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
Are you James0007? because you sound a lot like him, he also was adamant in protecting e-cigarettes from being banned, I mean I don't know why you would start doing that on Techspot and even though you consider yourself as MaXtor common sense there is none of that in vaping, smoking or inhaling anything besides medications or clean air into your lungs, specially just because you want to get high.
I know, with an estimated 13 million vapers in the US alone, it's hard to believe that there could be more than one person on Techspot educated about vaping.

And I do not get high from vaping, or from anything. I drink alcohol on occasion, but I don't use cannabis – nothing against it however, apart from the obvious dangers of black market cartridges.
 

pit1209

TS Booster
And I do not get high from vaping, or from anything. I drink alcohol on occasion, but I don't use cannabis – nothing against it however, apart from the obvious dangers of black market cartridges.
Very educated about vaping but not about nicotine I see, start reading about it and learn why you're addicted to that chemical and maybe just maybe you will change your mind unless you use cartridges without nicotine then I wouldn't understand the point in inhaling and exhaling smoke just because.
 

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
Very educated about vaping but not about nicotine I see, start reading about it and learn why you're addicted to that chemical and maybe just maybe you will change your mind unless you use cartridges without nicotine then I wouldn't understand the point in inhaling and exhaling smoke just because.
Recent studies on nicotine outside of smoking compare it directly to caffeine. This means nicotine without ammonia and other chemicals which are added to cigarettes to increase the addictiveness. They share the same upsides and downsides.

Both are stimulants. Both may be used to prevent and treat Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, as a well as ADHD. Both can be used as a pesticide in very high concentrations. Both can be hard on your heart and should be avoided if you have heart issues. Both share similar addictive properties.

I can attest to the last part having easily gone weeks without either. However, I return to them as I enjoy drinking coffee with that caffeine kick, and I enjoy vaping tasty flavours with a little kick of nicotine at 0.5mg / 0.05% (verse JUUL's 50mg / 5%). When I had smoked, if I ran out of cigarettes and it was too late to buy a pack, I would pathetically and desperately tear open and reroll tobacco from cigarette butts. As a vaper, if my vape dies (battery dies), I just don't vape.

Also, vaping does not produce smoke, it produces vapor. :p
 

pit1209

TS Booster
Recent studies on nicotine outside of smoking compare it directly to caffeine. This means nicotine without ammonia and other chemicals which are added to cigarettes to increase the addictiveness. They share the same upsides and downsides.

Both are stimulants. Both may be used to prevent and treat Parkinson's disease, Alzheimer's disease, as a well as ADHD. Both can be used as a pesticide in very high concentrations. Both can be hard on your heart and should be avoided if you have heart issues. Both share similar addictive properties.

I can attest to the last part having easily gone weeks without either. However, I return to them as I enjoy drinking coffee with that caffeine kick, and I enjoy vaping tasty flavours with a little kick of nicotine at 0.5mg / 0.05% (verse JUUL's 50mg / 5%). When I had smoked, if I ran out of cigarettes and it was too late to buy a pack, I would pathetically and desperately tear open and reroll tobacco from cigarette butts. As a vaper, if my vape dies (battery dies), I just don't vape.

Also, vaping does not produce smoke, it produces vapor. :p
Both are stimulant but that doesn't mean they work the same way, you obviously don't understand the pharmacology and biochemistry behind it, they are not the same nor do they have the same addictive properties and no, cigarettes are not addictive just because added chemicals, nicotine is more than enough to do that even more so than the majority of illegal drugs. Just the fact that you spend your time defending an addiction and trying to learn the "positives" about it is a sign that you're just addicted to this the same as any other person addicted to any illegal drug and justifying their ways. You say if your vaper battery dies you just don't vape, let's see how much you last without charging it, that thing is just controlling your life, one of the reasons why I don't consume anything addictive not even coffee.
 

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
Both are stimulant but that doesn't mean they work the same way, you obviously don't understand the pharmacology and biochemistry behind it, they are not the same nor do they have the same addictive properties and no, cigarettes are not addictive just because added chemicals, nicotine is more than enough to do that even more so than the majority of illegal drugs. Just the fact that you spend your time defending an addiction and trying to learn the "positives" about it is a sign that you're just addicted to this the same as any other person addicted to any illegal drug and justifying their ways. You say if your vaper battery dies you just don't vape, let's see how much you last without charging it, that thing is just controlling your life, one of the reasons why I don't consume anything addictive not even coffee.
Again I've gone weeks without vaping, same as with drinking coffee. I go through phases of both.

Anyways, while you stand on your moral high horse, yes, I spend time defending a life saving technology for the remaining 38,000,000 people still smoking in the US and the 1,100,000,000 people still smoking worldwide.
 

pit1209

TS Booster
Again I've gone weeks without vaping, same as with drinking coffee. I go through phases of both.

Anyways, while you stand on your moral high horse, yes, I spend time defending a life saving technology for the remaining 38,000,000 people still smoking in the US and the 1,100,000,000 people still smoking worldwide.
Life saving technology? hahaha, life saving would quitting or not having to be addicted to a substance just to feel better or to keep going in the day to day problems that everyone else also has to deal with and like I always like to think "it could always be worse".
 

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
Life saving technology? hahaha, life saving would quitting or not having to be addicted to a substance just to feel better or to keep going in the day to day problems that everyone else also has to deal with and like I always like to think "it could always be worse".
Of course not inhaling anything beyond air into your lungs is best, but switching to a 95% less harmful alternative is most definitely life saving to smokers who cannot quit. They can then control their nicotine levels, and lower gradually if they choose, and easily quit, again, if they choose.

Do you drink coffee or alcohol? Do you eat processed foods or foods with sugar in them? There are all sorts of vices that people abuse. Personally I enjoy indulging in many different vices, albeit moderately (I do go a little overboard on exercise and healthy eating). You're welcome to be a purist, but don't forget to avoid potatoes, tomatoes, and eggplants, cause they contain a tiny amount of that evil nicotine too.

Anyways, I hope you have other hobbies than judging other people. Live your life how you want, life is good. :)
 

Ryan Barrett

TS Rookie
So is the bottom line that there is no "safe" THC vape as it will always contain some kind of oil? I use resin cartridges myself as I only need a hit or two since it's more concentrated. Edibles are my only other option as I don't really like any kind of smoke. I'm concerned now.
 

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
So is the bottom line that there is no "safe" THC vape as it will always contain some kind of oil? I use resin cartridges myself as I only need a hit or two since it's more concentrated. Edibles are my only other option as I don't really like any kind of smoke. I'm concerned now.
Disclaimer: I'm not a cannabis user, and I have minimal knowledge on the legitimate products or their safety. But I would completely avoid inhaling any oil based THC products. If it was me I'd get a dry herb vaporizer in the meantime and use that instead. At least those have been used for years without issue (that I know of).

While your lungs will absorb water based vapor and even very small trace amounts of oil. Inhaling oil based liquids is a serious risk. So far tests have linked the vast majority of the illnesses directly to black market products which included Vitamin E Acetate or even left over pesticides from cartel marijuana. Nothing that I've seen has blamed pure THC oil, but I don't see how that can be safe either. The ejuice vaping industry has avoided any oil based ingredients since its inception.
 

Ryan Barrett

TS Rookie
Disclaimer: I'm not a cannabis user, and I have minimal knowledge on the legitimate products or their safety. But I would completely avoid inhaling any oil based THC products. If it was me I'd get a dry herb vaporizer in the meantime and use that instead. At least those have been used for years without issue (that I know of).

While your lungs will absorb water based vapor and even very small trace amounts of oil. Inhaling oil based liquids is a serious risk. So far tests have linked the vast majority of the illnesses directly to black market products which included Vitamin E Acetate or even left over pesticides from cartel marijuana. Nothing that I've seen has blamed pure THC oil, but I don't see how that can be safe either. The ejuice vaping industry has avoided any oil based ingredients since its inception.
From the video posted above even legitimate sources of oil based THC have e acetate. The guy said he got his vape from a medical dispensary. But the herb based vape is a good idea. I'll look into that. Thanks.
 
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MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
The UK has started a campaign to reassure the public that (nicotine) vaping is not the cause of these deaths, it is black market THC.

 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
The UK has started a campaign to reassure the public that (nicotine) vaping is not the cause of these deaths, it is black market THC.

Good luck with that. Having had some experience with addictions and recovery, it sounds to me like you are exhibiting what is known as denial.

 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
@MaXtor Here's a couple of articles that may interest you


 

MaXtor

TS Maniac
Platinum
@wiyosaya I was an addict when I smoked, that is certain with over a pack per day, sometimes two. Not to mention the severe withdrawal that I would go through without a cigarette. I'm no longer an addict. I used to binge drink too, though I've also had that under control for a long time. I found Jesus, joking, I found purpose and self control.

Let's do some math:

The average cigarette contains 2mg of nicotine. I used to smoke 30+ cigarettes per day, that's 60mg+ of nicotine. Now I vape ejuice with 0.5mg/ml of nicotine. I go through about 2ml per day. That's 1mg of nicotine I'm consuming vs the 60mg+ I used to with smoking (equivalent to half a cigarette) and without the 7000+ other chemicals. If you ate 10 eggplants, you would consume the same 1mg of nicotine. Even if I was smoking half a cigarette per day, I wouldn't be concerned, and vaping is far less harmful.

I enjoy my morning coffee every weekday with a complimentary bitter tasting vape, sometimes another coffee in the afternoon. I enjoy a glass of wine with dinner on weekends and after dinner I enjoy vaping a delicious creamy fruit or pastry type flavour rather than eating dessert. When I have time to sit back and read a book, I'll vape too. I enjoy all of these things in moderation.

Not everyone that consumes a less than moral substance is an addict, despite what you may believe as an ex-addict. Anyways, live and let live. If you want to call me an addict, that's your prerogative. I'll continue defending everyone's right to choose, to live their life how they want, and their right to less harmful alternatives.
 

wiyosaya

TS Evangelist
@wiyosaya I was an addict when I smoked, that is certain with over a pack per day, sometimes two. Not to mention the severe withdrawal that I would go through without a cigarette. I'm no longer an addict. I used to binge drink too, though I've also had that under control for a long time. I found Jesus, joking, I found purpose and self control.

Let's do some math:

The average cigarette contains 2mg of nicotine. I used to smoke 30+ cigarettes per day, that's 60mg+ of nicotine. Now I vape ejuice with 0.5mg/ml of nicotine. I go through about 2ml per day. That's 1mg of nicotine I'm consuming vs the 60mg+ I used to with smoking (equivalent to half a cigarette) and without the 7000+ other chemicals. If you ate 10 eggplants, you would consume the same 1mg of nicotine. Even if I was smoking half a cigarette per day, I wouldn't be concerned, and vaping is far less harmful.

I enjoy my morning coffee every weekday with a complimentary bitter tasting vape, sometimes another coffee in the afternoon. I enjoy a glass of wine with dinner on weekends and after dinner I enjoy vaping a delicious creamy fruit or pastry type flavour rather than eating dessert. When I have time to sit back and read a book, I'll vape too. I enjoy all of these things in moderation.

Not everyone that consumes a less than moral substance is an addict, despite what you may believe as an ex-addict. Anyways, live and let live. If you want to call me an addict, that's your prerogative. I'll continue defending everyone's right to choose, to live their life how they want, and their right to less harmful alternatives.
@MaXtor Congratulations! It sounds like you have come a long way from where you started,

When I quit smoking, I was smoking two packs a day of Camel unfiltered cigarettes. Quitting is not easy. I know. Perhaps the only reason that I quit, and I am glad that I did - I cannot see myself ever going back - is that at the time, I had a heart attack. The suggested recovery at that time was to do very little - not even leave my house. I had my father get rid of my cigarettes and I certainly was not going to leave my house to buy any - so I quit cold turkey. I do not really remember much about the experience. It was a long time ago, but whatever the experience, I endured it.

Interestingly enough, my father did not get rid of my cigarettes. He hid them. I found them several years later and was angry that he just hid them, but I just threw them out and forgave him for just hiding them. I was glad they were out of sight and out of mind.

I also experienced many other substances - alcohol, daily MJ, and various other things, too. Those are long gone from my life with an occasional glass of wine - maybe once a year - usually less.

For me, the amount of any substance I consumed lost its meaning. Yes, there are things out there that require a certain amount to become physically addicting. I will not go so far as to say there are no substances that could be considered totally harmless. Take the venom of the blue ringed octopus, for example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blue-ringed_octopus or the cone snail https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cone_snail even tiny amounts of their venom will kill a human rapidly. However, if you encounter one of these critters and you stay away from them, you might say that their venom is harmless because you avoided it. To some extent, what is done with anything determines its nature - and whether is it good or bad. Botox (yes, I know it tends to be used for vanity purposes) is an example of a dangerous substance that when used in small amounts can be beneficial.

Quantities became irrelevant for me because I asked myself a question. That question was why did I use these things? It was, perhaps, the most important question I ever asked myself. I did a deep dive within to face my shadow aspects and at least attempt to find the answers. I still actively pursue those aspects to this day because it helps me grow.

I get the feeling that you are not all that appreciative of my posting information that is contrary to what you have posted. That's OK. If I were in your position, and I see aspects of who I used to be in the past in you, I would not appreciate it either.

From my perspective, with respect to your posts - especially those that imply vaping is safer than smoking - I ask myself who are you trying to convince? Those here at TS, someone else, yourself? That is not a question for me to answer, and it is not a question to which you owe me any answers. As I see it, however, an answer to that question has the potential to shine some light on the road ahead of you.

For me, paraphrasing Chogyam Trungpa, the biggest battles I fight are with myself.
 
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