First Windows 11 Patch Tuesday slows down AMD CPUs even more than the release build

nanoguy

Posts: 1,021   +14
Staff member
A hot potato: With Intel’s Alder Lake dropping in the coming weeks, Microsoft may have spent too much time optimizing Windows 11 for hybrid CPU architectures that combine performance and efficiency cores. This led to poor optimization for AMD CPUs on the release build, which seems to be getting worse with every update. Thankfully, the fixes are scheduled to go out in a week.

Yesterday, Microsoft released the first Patch Tuesday update for Windows 11, which brought a number of fixes to the new operating system. Most notably, it solved compatibility issues between certain Intel “Killer” and “SmartByte” networking software and Windows 11, where users would see connection drops and slow network speeds.

The company said in the release notes that there weren’t any known issues with this update, but it didn’t take long for someone to find one based on the extensive feedback that can be found on the Feedback Hub and the known issues present in the release build of Windows 11. It turns out that Microsoft managed to make the performance issues recently observed on Ryzen CPUs even worse, just as AMD is readying a fix for one of them.

To put things in context, the release build of Windows 11 slows down AMD CPUs by up to 15 percent in some workloads such as eSports games and single-threaded applications. The folks over at TechPowerUP were curious enough to fire up the AIDA64 Cache & Memory Benchmark and see if anything has improved after this first update. What they found was that the L3 cache latency of the Ryzen 7 2700X CPU, which is around 10-11 ns on Windows 10, had increased to 17 ns on the release build of Windows 11 and currently sits at around 32-34 ns after the first monthly patch.

We were able to confirm these results on a machine equipped with the same CPU model. AMD and Microsoft both said patches for this issue as well as a CPPC (preferred core) bug are coming later this month, and after some digging, it looks like they’ll land on October 19 and October 21, respectively.

If you've just upgraded to Windows 11 on an AMD-based PC, you should know that you have up to 10 days to roll back to Windows 10 if you experience performance issues. To do so, go to Settings -> System -> Recovery. You should see a "Go Back" button, which can be used to start the downgrade process. You may also want to check out our guide on how to disable VBS in Windows 11 for a performance boost.

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Dimitriid

Posts: 1,337   +2,615
Let's get the thin foil hat on for fun: wouldn't it be pretty convenient for intel if Microsoft just didn't have time to fix a performance regression on Windows 11 big enough to get Alder Lake a great first impression on the reviews cycle, then later on when it turns out it's just basically the same than Zen3 without the unfortunate yet perfectly timed issues Microsoft is throwing at AMD well, reviews are out, orders are made and people's mind are not going to move from the "intel indeed is back!" mentality.

Now getting off that conspiracy theory I think it's just a simple case of AMD being a second-class citizen to Microsoft still: They didn't work with AMD for the initial Ryzen launch, the initial threadrippers had even more problems on Windows than Ryzen 1 and now it seems like it's the same story: intel probably gets a dedicated team of Microsoft employees working around the clock to tune in performance while AMD might get some white papers in an email several weeks too late to react in a "here you go, figure this out yourselves" kind of attitude.

 

brucek

Posts: 942   +1,363
Interesting thoughts. I'm curious how this happens too. Is testing for performance regression on all major CPU architectures really not a standardized and automated part of the windows QA process? Or, quite possibly it is but the particular tests chosen did not show an issue. That's my guess.

While I wouldn't think Microsoft would do this intentionally... I do wonder if AMD has asked them for explanation and to state on the record that they do not... just in case.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,747   +5,193
Interesting thoughts. I'm curious how this happens too. Is testing for performance regression on all major CPU architectures really not a standardized and automated part of the windows QA process? Or, quite possibly it is but the particular tests chosen did not show an issue. That's my guess.
IMO, the better question is does Microsoft even have a QA process for Windohs?
 

Superconductor

Posts: 64   +73
Rolled the dice and upgraded to Win 11 on my 5800x/Aorus Xtreme based gaming rig. Haven't seen any loss in performance. Yeah, yeah, I know - anecdotal. But seriously... my Aida64 scores are the same as they were on Win 10. So there has to be more to the story...

VBS was already disabled on my system.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 3,868   +1,918
I know MS and AMD are working together on both issues, so couldn't this be both there faults? Or AMD's? I only say that, because after it was revealed that Zen 1000 series didn't have W11 support, I didn't hear any complaints from AMD.
 
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Phaetos

Posts: 43   +42
I really wish these techmags would stop spreading a minute rumor on disabling a feature that actually has no impact on performance and in turn increases the security risk of the PC. Disabling VBS is of no help to regain the performance loss caused by programming issues between M$ and AMD.

Watch Video below to learn @techspot and other online mags that just toss out unverified conjecture:

 

emmzo

Posts: 364   +344
Let's get the thin foil hat on for fun: wouldn't it be pretty convenient for intel if Microsoft just didn't have time to fix a performance regression on Windows 11 big enough to get Alder Lake a great first impression on the reviews cycle, then later on when it turns out it's just basically the same than Zen3 without the unfortunate yet perfectly timed issues Microsoft is throwing at AMD well, reviews are out, orders are made and people's mind are not going to move from the "intel indeed is back!" mentality.

Now getting off that conspiracy theory I think it's just a simple case of AMD being a second-class citizen to Microsoft still: They didn't work with AMD for the initial Ryzen launch, the initial threadrippers had even more problems on Windows than Ryzen 1 and now it seems like it's the same story: intel probably gets a dedicated team of Microsoft employees working around the clock to tune in performance while AMD might get some white papers in an email several weeks too late to react in a "here you go, figure this out yourselves" kind of attitude.
What you are really striving to say is bad MS/Intel, poor AMD, however the conclusion to your comment is "buy Intel and always be safer", after all MS has a "dedicated Intel team", right?
 

Dimitriid

Posts: 1,337   +2,615
What you are really striving to say is bad MS/Intel, poor AMD, however the conclusion to your comment is "buy Intel and always be safer", after all MS has a "dedicated Intel team", right?
Sort of: If you plan on remaining exclusively on Windows 11 it might be a better idea to build around Alder Lake, we'll find out in a few weeks.

But I would advocate that if performance is equal, Ryzen 3 on Windows 10 or better yet, on Linux is much better than Alder Lake in Windows 11, but mostly because of Microsoft and Windows not specifically because of intel (In this case). This is also true for Epyc and Threadripper: might as well run Linux based host OS (ESXi or maybe even Proxmox for smaller companies/deployments) and virtualize windows server if you need to than the other way around.
 

DukeJukem

Posts: 258   +276
I really wish these techmags would stop spreading a minute rumor on disabling a feature that actually has no impact on performance and in turn increases the security risk of the PC. Disabling VBS is of no help to regain the performance loss caused by programming issues between M$ and AMD.

Watch Video below to learn @techspot and other online mags that just toss out unverified conjecture:

Watched this roughly a week ago. One users' experience does not reflect everyone elses.
 

DukeJukem

Posts: 258   +276
These "type" of behaviors have effected AMD since every Ryzen release began and it was usually a BIOS/Chipset issue on AMDs' end for the most part. I suspect this to be the same reason this is happening with the introduction of Windows 11. These issues will be sorted out. No need to worry. Welcome to AMD.
 

Phaetos

Posts: 43   +42
Watched this roughly a week ago. One users' experience does not reflect everyone elses.
That's true, but the story picked up by all these mags is literally from one person's perspective that this fixed his issue, and they ran with it without any sort of testing or confirmation. At least Thio did testing with datapoints and different configurations.
 

Mr Majestyk

Posts: 928   +821
LOL, I mean if only the company had the resources to employ decent programmers and engineers. This is the trouble when you are a small start-up like Microsoft. :p
 
Let's get the thin foil hat on for fun... Microsoft is throwing at AMD well, reviews are out, orders are made and people's mind are not going to move from the "intel indeed is back!" mentality.

Now getting off that conspiracy theory I think it's just a simple case of AMD being a second-class citizen to Microsoft... intel probably gets a dedicated team of Microsoft employees working around the clock to tune in performance while AMD might get some white papers in an email several weeks too late to react[.]

The long standing alliance between Intel and Microsoft isn't much of a secret. AMD operates on a shoestring compared to their enormous competitor, and the fact that they manage to command the amount of market share that they do relative to their size is commendable. AMD's real problem is that they don't have a competitive mentality. AMD's corporate colors are intentionally black and white because AMD is run as a white-label solution company. Marketing is not something they focus on, and they do pretty well embedding chips well outside of the CPU market in other companies' products right and left. It's not unheard of for an Intel branded motherboard to have chips with AMD labels or for those chips to show up on an Apple motherboard as well. It's not an entirely terrible business strategy, but it's not the sort of fighting attitude that screams at Microsoft "LOOK AT ME LOOK AT ME I'M OVER HEAR I NEED ATTENTION NOW!" Apple did not go from being an overpriced, overhyped vendor of proprietary personal computers to being the corporate behemoth it is today by being the nice kid who plays nicely with everyone when they allow it, but sometimes sits in the corner and eats paste. Apple did go through a paste-eating phase in the 90s, but AMD will probably always suffer from it's paste eating addiction. Sometimes you have to put down the paste jar, walk up to one of the popular kids and punch them in the face to get respect. AMD will never risk that as white label sales will always be their KPI.
 

wiak

Posts: 74   +19
This is why you never should pre-order games or software, wait a few months and all the big bugs will be fixed and when it comes to games CHEAPER.. lol

case in point cyberpunk, buggy mess on release, now its cheaper and has less bugs
 

arrowflash

Posts: 486   +532
This is why you never should pre-order games or software, wait a few months and all the big bugs will be fixed and when it comes to games CHEAPER.. lol

case in point cyberpunk, buggy mess on release, now its cheaper and has less bugs

Have you played it recently? CP2077 on v1.31 is still a buggy trainwreck. I know because I've played this version start to finish, naively expecting the game to be more polished at this point. I heard quite a few new bugs were also introduced since v1.3. Nearly one year and several patches later, CP2077 is still buggier than a Bethesda open world RPG on launch day.
 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 3,868   +1,918
This is why you never should pre-order games or software, wait a few months and all the big bugs will be fixed and when it comes to games CHEAPER.. lol

case in point cyberpunk, buggy mess on release, now its cheaper and has less bugs
People had to play it to find the bugs. So if everybody waited.....
Let me help you. In your case, you WANT people to pre-order so they can find the bugs so you don't have to wait as long before you can finally pull the trigger!

You're welcome!