Ford cuts F-150 Lightning production in half as EV demand falters

[midian182]

In brief: Ford is slashing production of its all-electric F-150 Lightning pickup truck by 50% next year despite increasing plant capacity for the EV in 2023. The cuts, likely due to high prices and increased competition from models such as the Tesla Cybertruck, result from "changing market demand." With around 75,000 F-150 Lightning vehicles set for production in 2024, we could see more Cybertrucks produced throughout next year.

According to a memo seen by Automotive News, Ford's suppliers have been told by the auto manufacturer that from January, it is slashing the production rate of the F-150 Lightning from 3,200 trucks a week down to 1,600 trucks a week, reducing output by half.

The news is a surprise given that Ford received 200,000 reservations for the EV ahead of its release in 2022. The company even announced it was doubling its original production output to 150,000 and spent six weeks increasing capacity of the F-150 Lightning at its Michigan plant.

But demand for EVs isn't growing as quickly as expected. CNBC reports that although sales of the F-150 Lightning have steadily increased in 2023, reaching a monthly record of roughly 4,400 sold in November, Ford has only sold 20,365 of the trucks this year. The company also paused a $12 billion investment in EV manufacturing after warning that electric vehicles are too expensive.

We've recently seen car dealers ask the Biden administration to slow down its push to get more EVs on the road as the vehicles haven't been selling very well. Cost of living and reliability concerns have also played a part in the faltering demand.

The Tesla Cybertruck still looks set to become a big rival to the F-150 Lightning, despite all the complaints aimed at the former. Elon Musk said Tesla is targeting production numbers of 250,000 Cybertrucks per year, though that won't become a reality until after 2024. With Ford halving production of the F-150 Lightning, it could lag behind the Cybertruck in terms of production rates next year.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/101190-ford-cuts-f-150-lightning-production-half-ev.html

 

[Neatfeatguy]

They're novelty vehicles. They absolutely have the power to tow, but they have very limited range and by limited range I'm talking about around 100miles. Who in the right mind is going to drop $50K+ for an electric truck that can't tow very far and you're stuck having to try and map out a path to the next charging station to accommodate not only your truck, but also the load it is towing.

A gas truck, you can bring along spare fuel, and go off some where remote with your load in tow and not have to worry about finding a charging station to get you to your destination and then back out.

An electric truck, in my opinion, is an f'ing stupid novelty item, a complete waste of resources, time and money for both parties (manufacturer and consumer).

 

[yRaz]

They're novelty vehicles. They absolutely have the power to tow, but they have very limited range and by limited range I'm talking about around 100miles. Who in the right mind is going to drop $50K+ for an electric truck that can't tow very far and you're stuck having to try and map out a path to the next charging station to accommodate not only your truck, but also the load it is towing.

A gas truck, you can bring along spare fuel, and go off some where remote with your load in tow and not have to worry about finding a charging station to get you to your destination and then back out.

An electric truck, in my opinion, is an f'ing stupid novelty item, a complete waste of resources, time and money for both parties (manufacturer and consumer).

This is why I like Toyota's take on it, they feel plug in Hybrid's are the way to go because you can charge them like a normal EV when you need to but you use the ICE engine as a range extender for the few times a year a normal personal needs to tow a load.

 

[J95qRP7]

There are actually fewer electric F-150 on lots than there are ICE versions. Seems the electric version has a better supply/demand ratio than the traditional version. Perhaps if they released a Lightning at the $40000 MSRP they initially said, instead of the $50000 it currently is, they’d sell more. There is a market for them and once Ford stops trying to gouge customers for the absolute maximum, they’ll lower the price and inventory will start flowing again.

“F-150 inventory is climbing as ‘trimflation’ pushes truck prices ever higher. As we approach Labor Day 2023, F-Series inventory sits at 117 days nationwide. For the best-selling electric truck on the market, the F-150 Lightning, there’s currently a 97-day supply nationwide with 3,632 for sale.” https://caredge.com/guides/ford-inventory-surplus-2023#

 

[Jrfeimst2]

It’s not the demand. I want a truck. It’s the F******* price! I’m not paying 80 grand for a truck. I don’t care if it’s gas or electric! Fords pricing on F150s are ridiculous! They can’t even sell ICE F150s due to their ridiculous pricing.

 

[nulll]

They're novelty vehicles. They absolutely have the power to tow, but they have very limited range and by limited range I'm talking about around 100miles. Who in the right mind is going to drop $50K+ for an electric truck that can't tow very far and you're stuck having to try and map out a path to the next charging station to accommodate not only your truck, but also the load it is towing.

A gas truck, you can bring along spare fuel, and go off some where remote with your load in tow and not have to worry about finding a charging station to get you to your destination and then back out.

An electric truck, in my opinion, is an f'ing stupid novelty item, a complete waste of resources, time and money for both parties (manufacturer and consumer).

The towing issue is certainly a concern that needs to be addressed for these machines to have a hope of pushing into the F350/3500 market, the counter point is that in the F150, 250/1500, 2500 space they offer a very compelling option. Whether it be as fleet trucks for companies like u-haul or massive contractors like Haliburton/Schlumberger (ironic I know) there is a very solid use case as they simply require less servicing with no oil changes or gas it really starts to add up on the logistics side even when just factoring the man power associated with the service. Another example is telecom companies for light duty boom trucks as a replacement for the ladder vans they currently use. All of these vehicles see only short to moderate range expectations (yes you'd have outlier cases but that isn't the norm) and the EV's simply have far higher load carrying capacity and towing (over short hauls) at the same price point.

Ford has a solid product portfolio with the Lightning, Mach-e (still can't call it a mustang) and certainly the unsung hero of their EV fleet the E transit! Though that market might get steam rolled by Benz as they just released the E Sprinter van and unless it is an unmitigated disaster (like the EQS for example) they're probably going to just keep right on owning that market across most of the world. Rivian is also in with a serious product in the commercial van space, only with Amazon for now but the R&D is through to delivery of the first version so that's a good head start on a lot of players as they've already made many of the mistakes and refinements needed to target a larger user base.

These machines are going to be a lot more than just a rich mans toy in the very short term as both the Lightning and Cybertruck will benefit from reverse economies of scale affecting ICE trucks while seeing improvements and advancements to their own tech through increase range for towing, load capacity through lighter batteries with higher energy density and the associated weight savings that come from an ever refining design and manufacturing process.

 

[Neatfeatguy]

The towing issue is certainly a concern that needs to be addressed for these machines to have a hope of pushing into the F350/3500 market, the counter point is that in the F150, 250/1500, 2500 space they offer a very compelling option. Whether it be as fleet trucks for companies like u-haul or massive contractors like Haliburton/Schlumberger (ironic I know) there is a very solid use case as they simply require less servicing with no oil changes or gas it really starts to add up on the logistics side even when just factoring the man power associated with the service. Another example is telecom companies for light duty boom trucks as a replacement for the ladder vans they currently use. All of these vehicles see only short to moderate range expectations (yes you'd have outlier cases but that isn't the norm) and the EV's simply have far higher load carrying capacity and towing (over short hauls) at the same price point.

Ford has a solid product portfolio with the Lightning, Mach-e (still can't call it a mustang) and certainly the unsung hero of their EV fleet the E transit! Though that market might get steam rolled by Benz as they just released the E Sprinter van and unless it is an unmitigated disaster (like the EQS for example) they're probably going to just keep right on owning that market across most of the world. Rivian is also in with a serious product in the commercial van space, only with Amazon for now but the R&D is through to delivery of the first version so that's a good head start on a lot of players as they've already made many of the mistakes and refinements needed to target a larger user base.

These machines are going to be a lot more than just a rich mans toy in the very short term as both the Lightning and Cybertruck will benefit from reverse economies of scale affecting ICE trucks while seeing improvements and advancements to their own tech through increase range for towing, load capacity through lighter batteries with higher energy density and the associated weight savings that come from an ever refining design and manufacturing process.

It'll be a long time before EV are cheaper. Right now their cost is what it is because of all the subsidies that the government pays to help lower the cost. If you remove all the subsidies the price of EVs will make a significant jump.

Also, I wouldn't want to be in a business that thinks having a fleet of EV is a good business model. Have you seen vehicles from U-Haul? All dinged up, dented. Insuring costs are a lot higher on EV and many repair shops won't touch an EV for repair work, even if it's body work. These vehicles, as the market stands, is not ideal for fleets. EVs are just not ideal vehicles. Maybe in a few decades - if this model can be sustained (which I don't think it can be) - they could be ideal, but not any time soon.

To each their own, but EV in their current form doesn't make any sense to me.

 

[yRaz]

It'll be a long time before EV are cheaper. Right now their cost is what it is because of all the subsidies that the government pays to help lower the cost. If you remove all the subsidies the price of EVs will make a significant jump.

Also, I wouldn't want to be in a business that thinks having a fleet of EV is a good business model. Have you seen vehicles from U-Haul? All dinged up, dented. Insuring costs are a lot higher on EV and many repair shops won't touch an EV for repair work, even if it's body work. These vehicles, as the market stands, is not ideal for fleets. EVs are just not ideal vehicles. Maybe in a few decades - if this model can be sustained (which I don't think it can be) - they could be ideal, but not any time soon.

To each their own, but EV in their current form doesn't make any sense to me.

even with the subsidies I saw that the electric F-150 is posting a loss of $12,000US a vehicle. On top of that they aren't selling so they're holding valuable capital up(that's expensive at current interest rates) that the Dealership could be using for other things. A side note to this is that all vehicles are selling poorly right now because everyone produced a lot of "luxury" vehicles while financing was easy and credit was cheap. Find a base model of anything right now, it's almost impossible. Even economy vehicles are being listed for 10k over sticker right now

 

[Neatfeatguy]

even with the subsidies I saw that the electric F-150 is posting a loss of $12,000US a vehicle. On top of that they aren't selling so they're holding valuable capital up(that's expensive at current interest rates) that the Dealership could be using for other things. A side note to this is that all vehicles are selling poorly right now because everyone produced a lot of "luxury" vehicles while financing was easy and credit was cheap. Find a base model of anything right now, it's almost impossible. Even economy vehicles are being listed for 10k over sticker right now

There's also a story out there about how there are 400 or so Ford dealerships that are backing out of EV because they just aren't moving. I think there are 2000-2100 or so Ford dealerships in the US and nearly 1/5th of them are backing out. Not sure where I read the story a few weeks back, but it's easy to find. Here's a link to one:

https://fordauthority.com/2023/11/more-ford-dealers-have-dropped-out-of-ev-sales-program/

I don't know about others, but I find that to be a stark indicator of what's to come with EVs if things keep going in this direction for them; high costs, low range and lack of sales.

 

[axiomatic13]

This makes me sad. I love my F-150 Lightning. It's a super great truck. I did pay too much for it though.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

There are actually fewer electric F-150 on lots than there are ICE versions. Seems the electric version has a better supply/demand ratio than the traditional version. Perhaps if they released a Lightning at the $40000 MSRP they initially said, instead of the $50000 it currently is, they’d sell more. There is a market for them and once Ford stops trying to gouge customers for the absolute maximum, they’ll lower the price and inventory will start flowing again.

“F-150 inventory is climbing as ‘trimflation’ pushes truck prices ever higher. As we approach Labor Day 2023, F-Series inventory sits at 117 days nationwide. For the best-selling electric truck on the market, the F-150 Lightning, there’s currently a 97-day supply nationwide with 3,632 for sale.” https://caredge.com/guides/ford-inventory-surplus-2023#

It's not $50k. that's for the fleet XL model. The XLT is the bare minimum most dealerships will order, and that starts at $55k. Of course, that model is the small battery with only 230 miles of range. If you want the 330 mile model, that will set you back, minimum, $76k!

Absolute insane pricing.

 

[yRaz]

This makes me sad. I love my F-150 Lightning. It's a super great truck. I did pay too much for it though.

They are good trucks, I actually like them more than the cyber truck or the Rivian. I wouldn't want to use it as an everyday work truck but it's fine for what the average American needs out of a truck.

I just don't understand what people have against plug in Hybrids. If anything, the transportation industry is perfect for all electric with the "work" or "truck" industry perfect for plug in hybrids. You reduce fuel costs significantly and they still get better gas mileage than a standard ICE truck.

People aren't against electrification, quite the opposite. People just don't want electrification the way that the government is forcing it on us. We don't even have the infustructure for all EVs by 2030 anyway. I've seen estimates that it would cost between 1.3 and 2Trillion US dollars just for modifying the grid to make that possible. And as someone who works commercial construction, we already have major labor shortages across the US, we don't have the people to build the grid even if the money was there. From the estimates that I've seen, and I've seen a few of them, if we started training people TODAY we wouldn't be prepared to start working on the grid infustructure until 2028-29 and it wouldn't be completed until well into 2030. We're talking 2037-2038 and that's if we had the people and the money to do all of it. Currently, we have neither. I've seen estimates of it not being complete until between 2042-2045.

And that's if everything goes according to plan without supply shortages or other hiccups. I remember a project I was working on in 2020 still isn't complete because of the concrete supply shortage. Last year we had construction companies buying concrete factories because it was the only way they could get material. You had billion dollar companies going around to small town supply yards and homedepo's buying all the Portland cement they had because it was simply unattainable.

 

[scavengerspc]

So, the market is showing some ebb and flow?
Well, it's good that NEVER happens in any other product market.

We are coming off the worst year for new car sales in over a decade but, thankfully
I guess this isn't related. /s

 

[yRaz]

So, the market is showing some ebb and flow?
Well, it's good that NEVER happens in any other product market.

We are coming off the worst year for new car sales in over a decade but, thankfully
I guess this isn't related. /s

It's nice that the markets are actually showing showing some volatility and aren't prepped up by money printing or low interest rates. Like, yeah, my stocks are doing great but they're worth less adjusted for inflation than they were in 2018

 

[toooooot]

Are electric trucks even useful considering their huge weight?

 

[scavengerspc]

Like, yeah, my stocks are doing great but they're worth less adjusted for inflation than they were in 2018

??
I'm thinking I misunderstood.
Adjusted, not adjusted, any long term player in the stock market that isn't MILES ahead of where they were 6 years ago should honestly sell every last share and open a savings account.

Are electric trucks even useful considering their huge weight?

18 wheelers are the trucks with "huge weight". The Lightning is about 1500 lbs more
than the smoke pump model.
Are the big rigs useful?

 

[Theinsanegamer]

18 wheelers are the trucks with "huge weight". The Lightning is about 1500 lbs more
than the smoke pump model.
Are the big rigs useful?

An 18 wheeler can tow a 50 ton trailer across multiple states in a single day.

A F-150 lightning can barely make it out of its own zip code before needing a recharge if you dare tow anything.

 

[yRaz]

??
I'm thinking I misunderstood.
Adjusted, not adjusted, any long term player in the stock market that isn't MILES ahead of where they were 6 years ago should honestly sell every last share and open a savings account.

It's managed by a trust through my employer and the only way to get direct access to it is to quit my job, which I'm not doing. I'm not retiring for another 25 years anyway so I'll just ride it out

 

[axiomatic13]

An 18 wheeler can tow a 50 ton trailer across multiple states in a single day.

A F-150 lightning can barely make it out of its own zip code before needing a recharge if you dare tow anything.

It's not that bad. I get 300 miles on my F-150 Lightning with stuff in the bed. I admit, I do not tow anything. The weight issue is real though. I have the extended battery and the curb weight is 7700 lbs.

 

[liammac002]

Lmao

 

[scavengerspc]

It's not that bad. I get 300 miles on my F-150 Lightning with stuff in the bed. I admit, I do not tow anything. The weight issue is real though. I have the extended battery and the curb weight is 7700 lbs.

What always gets me is the complaint about loss of range when towing. Now, you and I both know huge losses in towing efficiency goes both ways. I can't get why such basic knowledge isn't widely shared.

How Much Does Towing Affect Your Gas Mileage?

We're all fairly familiar with the concepts of physics, yet you might not know that physics are the reason you pay more for gas when you're towing.

www.motorbiscuit.com

"Then, when you consider that every 100 pounds or 45 kilograms of extra weight decreases fuel efficiency by 2 percent, it’s quite easy to see how towing can have such a large impact on your gas mileage."

 

[axiomatic13]

What always gets me is the complaint about loss of range when towing. Now, you and I both know huge losses in towing efficiency goes both ways. I can't get why such basic knowledge isn't widely shared.

How Much Does Towing Affect Your Gas Mileage?

We're all fairly familiar with the concepts of physics, yet you might not know that physics are the reason you pay more for gas when you're towing.

www.motorbiscuit.com

"Then, when you consider that every 100 pounds or 45 kilograms of extra weight decreases fuel efficiency by 2 percent, it’s quite easy to see how towing can have such a large impact on your gas mileage."

I think the towing issue right now boils down to the convenience of refilling an ICE engine vs recharging an EV battery. You can do that easily the way gas stations are designed. You cannot do that with EV charging stations. Your trailer would be in the way of everything. My biggest beef in the EV argument is that it takes jobs away from O&G business. It doesn't, the jobs are highly interchangeable.