Game of Thrones cinematographer says it's your fault The Long Night was too dark

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
I don't really feel like listening to you tonight.

You're serial posting, quoting yourself, and you seen to be a shill for "Value Electronics".

Much in the same way, you proselytize , blacker than black, only comes with a $4000,00 TV. 6500k is really "bluish white". If you were to read the "color temperature" of the northern blue sky you'd be up about 25,000K.

Now, noon daylight is about 5600K, it's hardly "reddish", and the same setting works for a monitor. Our sun is categorized as a yellow star". This discussion is starting to turn existential like, "how white is white", or maybe, "if 5600K daylight falls in the forest does it make a reflection if nobody's there to see it?

So, keep your 6500K standard, and then complain about eyestrain. The makers of those expensive TVs will do you a big favor and get rid of it by dropping the color temp and just won't tell you what they're doing.

If you remove some of the blue component in a light source, the color temperature has to drop, get it?

Like I said in other posts, I have a degree in photo imaging, and you have a lot of hot air, and a magazine under your arm. And like I also told you before the guy with this year's "Value Electronic's best TV", can legitimately call you 6 year old model a piece of crap. Time marches on, so you need to grab some extra overtime, and buy the latest most expensive TV you can find, or time will pass you buy.

I've dealt with people like you for years. With a Consumer's Report under their arm, asking "how much harmonic distortion does this amp have?

Here's some results from the question "color temperature of common light sources"

Warm Light resembles the color of an incandescent; looking orange or yellow. Cool White ranges from Yellow-White (3000K) to White (4000K) to Blue-White (5000K). Daylight ranges from Blue-White (5000K) to Bright Blue (6500K).Sep 20, 2017

The best light temperature for offices is between 3500 Kelvin and 5500 Kelvin . Anything above 5500K is just too blue and anything below 3500K will make your employees less productive.Jun 28, 2018//Here's the search page:https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&hs=3fL&ei=FHbXXPXoCO_A5gL3iqugBg&q=color+temperature+common+light+sources+&oq=color+temperature+common+light+sources+&gs_l=psy-ab.12..35i39.34324.34324..37323...0.0..0.74.74.1......0....1..gws-wiz.......0i71.gANI9BrBwuc

Now run along and play.
 
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GlennS

TS Rookie
I've dealt with people like you for years. With a Consumer's Report under their arm,...
Setting the color temp of your display device has nothing to do with what color temp is best for a working office or for your living room, it is about having a set standard so the end user has the same experience as the producer.
Well, this next link isn't from "Consumer's Report" but I'm sure this website won't teach you anything either:
https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-tv-color-temperature-and-why-does-it-matter/

In case you don't want to read the entire article, here is the important part:
[SIZE=5]"One temperature to rule them all[/SIZE]
It's vital that all stages in television production have a set color temperature. Without the D6500 standard, each camera could produce different colors. Imagine watching Craig, and each time they switched to a different camera (there are three), he'd look redder or bluer. Distracting to say the least, right? With scripted shows, the monitors used during the editing process need to match the cameras as well, otherwise more color inaccuracies could result.
There are more stages, but let's not muddle the point. In order to ensure that the show (or movie) has a consistent look and feel--one the director intends--all devices in the chain need to be set for the same color temperature.
So the question becomes, don't you want to watch it that way, too?
"

The "--all devices in the chain need to be set for the same color temperature" includes your TV also. But of course if you prefer not to see it as intended, that's fine... as long as you can admit it.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Setting the color temp of your display device has nothing to do with what color temp is best for a working office or for your living room, it is about having a set standard so the end user has the same experience as the producer.
Well, this next link isn't from "Consumer's Report" but I'm sure this website won't teach you anything either:
https://www.cnet.com/news/what-is-tv-color-temperature-and-why-does-it-matter/

In case you don't want to read the entire article, here is the important part:
[SIZE=5]"One temperature to rule them all[/SIZE]
It's vital that all stages in television production have a set color temperature. Without the D6500 standard, each camera could produce different colors. Imagine watching Craig, and each time they switched to a different camera (there are three), he'd look redder or bluer. Distracting to say the least, right? With scripted shows, the monitors used during the editing process need to match the cameras as well, otherwise more color inaccuracies could result.
There are more stages, but let's not muddle the point. In order to ensure that the show (or movie) has a consistent look and feel--one the director intends--all devices in the chain need to be set for the same color temperature.
So the question becomes, don't you want to watch it that way, too?
"

The "--all devices in the chain need to be set for the same color temperature" includes your TV also. But of course if you prefer not to see it as intended, that's fine... as long as you can admit it.
What part of "I have a degree in photography" don't you get? I don't need a lesson from you, period. Nor do I think I have a stutter in my posts.

You've already said, "as the director intended", which makes the color balance subjective right from the jump. Or can you read director's minds too?

As for :scripted shows like sitcoms, all you have to do is balance the capture train one time, and it's already setup for the next episode. Barring of course, wear and tear on the set lights, which change color temperature over time, with use.


So, since the 6300K standard seems to be treating people to eyestrain and headaches, have you ever considered the possibility that the standard is too blue, as opposed to 5600K being "too red".

I've seen monitors with color temps in the 9000K range, but those settings were for use in high ambient cold light environments.
 
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GlennS

TS Rookie
What part of "I have a degree in photography" don't you get? I don't need a lesson from you, period.
You obviously haven't had training in modern TV display technology and calibration, or you have had training but can't grasp the concept.
Maybe if you understood the technology of plasma and LCD displays you would understand that there is a reason why cheap entry level displays cannot give you proper black levels (which cannot give you detailed shadow details), cannot give proper white levels, cannot give consistent color temperature/balance, and do have improper halo effect and motion blur. To get all of that correct it takes more and better technology which costs money, it is not that the salesman is trying to scam you.

My 6 year old plasma display is still relevant today because I spent the money to get the basics right. It can display complete blackness, it has great white levels, color temperature/ color scale stays accurate throughout luminance changes, it has no haloing and no motion blur. Due to proper calibration, when the source material calls for white or gray, my display will recreate proper white or gray, no I am not worried about eyestrain due to watching movies and TV shows.


*** MODERATORS... Note about my earlier post which is a quote with no new content:
I don't understand how that happened, moderators can delete that post if possible.
 

captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
You obviously haven't had training in modern TV display technology and calibration, or you have had training but can't grasp the concept.
Maybe if you understood the technology of plasma and LCD displays you would understand that there is a reason why cheap entry level displays cannot give you proper black levels (which cannot give you detailed shadow details), cannot give proper white levels, cannot give consistent color temperature/balance, and do have improper halo effect and motion blur. To get all of that correct it takes more and better technology which costs money, it is not that the salesman is trying to scam you.
Your TV is better than my TV, got it.

Nobody can get proper color and black levels, unless they spend as much for a TV as you did. Got it!

You couldn't be bothered recommending a lower priced TV for a person or family without the financial means to afford one similar or better than yours, because that would be beneath you. Got that too.

Or could it be that you know nothing about mid-priced TVs, and how they compare with one another? Which is really the overarching issue that you've managed to completely avoid, while you continue to drone on about how good your TV is.

Since you've read a couple of articles about TV, I couldn't possibly know as much as you about color spaces such as sRGB, or Adobe RBG, and a monitor's ability to reproduce them, expressed as a percentage. I think it has something do do with the term "gamut", but I better check my textbooks, so I can manage to understand your vast expertise on the topic.

My 6 year old plasma display is still relevant today because I spent the money to get the basics right. It can display complete blackness, it has great white levels, color temperature/ color scale stays accurate throughout luminance changes, it has no haloing and no motion blur. Due to proper calibration, when the source material calls for white or gray, my display will recreate proper white or gray, no I am not worried about eyestrain due to watching movies and TV shows.
They should probably outlaw plasma TV, on the grounds that they're energy hogs.

As far as the rest of your posting goes, it's just you relentlessly bragging about how great YOUR TV is, and has absolutely nothing to do with any lack of topical understanding on my part..

So, if you want affirmation, validation, and praise about how great your TV is, and how astute, cleved, and well informed you are for buying it, invite some friends over to watch a game. I'm sure you'll get plenty of , "wow what a great picture your TV has",sunshine blown around in the vicinity of your behind.

In the meantime, stop trying to talk down to me, it's fairly obnoxious
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
@captaincranky I am so glad that you are the one reference to rule them all. :laughing:
It is always a pleasure doing battle over the important things in life. ;)
FWIW, one set of rules does cover imaging, and it's very simple; will the source you're trying to print or transmit, "fit", into the "color space" available..

I honest to god don't need a lecture from some noob about "shadow detail", or "how black is black", or that a 5500K white is really red. It isn't,. It's simply not "blue white".

I never challenge you about something which I honestly believe you know more than me. Why not treat me to the same courtesy?

The member I'm "involved with" ATM. thinks he knows it all because he read some electronics- >retail store's< "annual TV report". It taint so, not by a long shot.

I've gotten paragraph after paragraph of mindless crap, because someone thinks that you really do need a $4000.00 TV, to see a poorly produced TV episode. Which carries with it a certain mindless arrogance and disregard for someone's else's financial situation. Keep it up, and I'll sic him on you. Let's see if the missus will allow you to spend 4K for a TV on some 's say so.

Hell 3 different types of photographic papers will give you 3 different "black levels". Why do either of you think I can't translate the same concept to images viewed by transmitted light?

Especially since I had two semesters of cinematography.

This is real simple people, if you can't offer any useful information or comparison between TVs in the prospective price range of your "friend", either say, "I don't know anything about them", or just keep your mouth shut.
 
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captaincranky

TechSpot Addict
Let it go guys.

Better watch Chernobyl, absolute must-see!
Argue, that's what men do for sport, isn't it?

The manly arts of drinking beer and arguing still remain as the "sport of kings", retaining their joyfulness, long after the wife, girlfriend, or missus, have stopped putting out.

Unfortunately, I absolutely loathe the taste of beer, so I argue twice as hard to make up for that which I perceive as an almost unforgivable inadequacy.
 

regiq

TS Addict
Argue, that's what men do for sport, isn't it?

The manly arts of drinking beer and arguing still remain as the "sport of kings", retaining their joyfulness, long after the wife, girlfriend, or missus, have stopped putting out.

Unfortunately, I absolutely loathe the taste of beer, so I argue twice as hard to make up for that which I perceive as an almost unforgivable inadequacy.
How could anyone dislike a real, craft AIPA? :yum
Anyway, guys, watch HBO's Chernobyl mini series. It won't matter if it's too dark or whatever...