Reasoning generally involves supporting your reason with evidence… I await yours…
Graphics card prices drop again, now within seven percent of MSRP
- Thread starter nanoguy
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fps4ever
Posts: 1,153 +1,923
Don't bother to feed the troll. Whether you are wrong or right doesn't matter at all. It's about him absolutely needing to win a pointless internet disagreement. Its almost autistic like...
I believe the troll is the guy who interjects into an argument with nothing to add but simply calls someone a troll…
mods - please delete this after you delete the post before mine
mods - please delete this after you delete the post before mine
Why is the sky blue? Shorter wavelengths of light corresponding to blue scatter easier in the atmosphere. You: show me evidence! Everybody knows mining has had a big impact on video cards pricing, but you. Why? Miners were making money, so, they could afford higher prices as long as the ROI was good. Most ONLY gamers could not. You: show me evidence! Sorry, reasoning implies some cognitive skills.
fps4ever
Posts: 1,153 +1,923
Miners have had I think the biggest hit on on them. You can argue the pandemic as well but just look at the pallets of consumer cards designated for miners the last couple of years. On the flip side ask him to prove miners didn't have a major impact. Common sense is being swept aside just for the sake of winning an arguement.
Miner pics
Slappy McPhee
Posts: 273 +177
Meh....I have several friends running with old GPUs; talking early 10 series and even the 900 series still awaiting the prices to drop and at the same time whining about how they can't game the way they want to or edit media the way they want to. They have the $$$ to purchase and did so even when prices were much higher, but they said they would be damned if they were going to give the scalpers their hard earned money. I picked up 3060 Jan 2021 for 750 and then sold it three months later for 700 picking up a 3070 for 1100. I have had close to a year now with my 3070 and have thoroughly enjoyed it. Sometimes you just have to nut up and as each day passes if you didn't take the opportunity to do what you wanted you have wasted that day. Its the same with the Raspberry Pi crowd. When the Pi 3B+ came out so many cried "what about the Pi 4??" and then as SOON as the Pi 4 launched they wanted the Pi 5 and if they have the 3B or the 3B+ still they are waiting for the more powerful Pi 5 which who knows when/if that will ever come to fruition. They all want to emulate Gamecube, better PSP, and even PS2 on their SBC yet if they spent a little more then could have all of that many other ways, but some are just born to b1!ch their way through life.
Common knowledge isn’t always so common... you can prove that shorter wavelengths of light correspond with certain colours fairly easily... Miners have been mining for years - and there have been surges in crypto many times...
Nvidia and AMD are not fools - they know that there are miners! They are simply having supply issues - and it’s a lot easier to blame miners than to blame their own supply issues!
brucek
Posts: 2,118 +3,409
Prices rise when demand exceed supply. Both gamers + miners contribute to demand.
But there is an important price sensitivity difference. Typically gamers are buying one card, and are weighing its cost/value against other items in the finite household budget. Minus the occasional whale, there's a limit to what the average consumer will pay for more sparkles.
Miners have a different cost equation. They want as many cards as they can make money on, and they will pay any price that still leaves room for profit. For them there's no cost ceiling other than what the most optimistic believes the mined crypto will be worth.
There's another important difference re: variability of demand. The GPU makers believe in an enduring and somewhat predictable demand from gamers, and are willing to make long term investments around capacity for it. Compare to the demand from miners, which they certainly recognize and appreciate when its present, but also don't place the same long-term trust in. If they did, they'd eventually build enough supply for both, but because it is too variable, it is not baked into planning the same way.
But there is an important price sensitivity difference. Typically gamers are buying one card, and are weighing its cost/value against other items in the finite household budget. Minus the occasional whale, there's a limit to what the average consumer will pay for more sparkles.
Miners have a different cost equation. They want as many cards as they can make money on, and they will pay any price that still leaves room for profit. For them there's no cost ceiling other than what the most optimistic believes the mined crypto will be worth.
There's another important difference re: variability of demand. The GPU makers believe in an enduring and somewhat predictable demand from gamers, and are willing to make long term investments around capacity for it. Compare to the demand from miners, which they certainly recognize and appreciate when its present, but also don't place the same long-term trust in. If they did, they'd eventually build enough supply for both, but because it is too variable, it is not baked into planning the same way.
6700 XT and 6600 XT have been available at their MSRP for roughly a week now. It's the NVIDIA GPUs that could take time.
Mining has existed for YEARS - and both Nvidia and AMD have known all about it. Had they been able to make as many cards as they had wanted, no one would be mentioning it at all.
Think on this: to dedicated miners, GAMERS are the problem with prices!
Call it like I see it
Stock market has also existed for decades but that doesn't guarantee anyone who invests will become millionaire. Sometimes it's more profitable, sometimes it's a loss. Only since Q4'20/Q1'21 has ethereum been profitable ( except for the small boom in 2017/18). If you bought a GPU for mining before Feb 2021 you would have got huge profit, but if you only buy it tomorrow the profit will be nowhere close to 2021 numbers and you will need more than a year to get your return on investment.
All he had to do is watch any on of HUB's monthly GPU Market update videos (or any other video discussing this topic from a reputable source) and the correlation is crystal clear.
I have seen the 6600 and 6500 XT very close to MSRP, but these other cards I haven't. Yes, the 3060 Ti, which was Nvidia's value champ is still $200 over MSRP from most manufacturers. The 3060 can be found $100 over MSRP. The 3070 Ti however, can be found relatively easy for $100 over MSRP. I have even seen it at MSRP ($599) one time due to a instant rebate. 3080 12GB is easy to find below $1000, but never really had a suggested MSRP. 3080 10GB is available $150 over MSRP. 3080 TI/3090/3090Ti all easy to find at MSRP.
Mining has been around for years but a combination of several factors, including mining are what has caused shortages and high prices for GPUs. I know people who set up mining sheds in their backyards with several racks of graphics cards - 10s of thousands of $ for the setup. It's easy to assume that this isnt an isolated behavior for a few people. It's the mining craze of the last couple years that is the mining portion of the shortages and price increases. The people who built those sheds didnt build them in 2018, but in 2020 and 2021. Once this started to happen, and supply started dropping rapidly, those who watched closely saw an opportunity to control the market, and they did. Cards were bought in heavy bundles to choke the market and decide the prices - all for profit. And as crypto boosted so did the pockets of scalpers and retailers who seized the day. This coupled with an artificial break in the supply chain supported by pandemic layoffs in logistics, where - as demand grew, employment in the supply chain did not strengthen because companies knew inflation was right around the corner and that meant more money. To believe mining has nothing to do with this current GPU market is absurd at best. Whether or not miners made 25% of purchases is beside the point, it's the fact that their purchasing power in the market increased at a time when it was easy to see that more miners would enter the market and pay up. This heavily influenced scalpers and one off retailers to control the market for profit - an issue that hasnt existed in this market previously. Gamers aren't entitled, but their consumerism and enthusiasm did build the GPU market. Developers would be smart to create a separate piece of hardware specifically for miners and devide the market to create two separate markets so they can cut out the scalpers altogether and profit even more. Money and greed ruins all, and it's that same insidious wanting that has severely impacted the GPU market in a negative way and it wasnt because of gamers.
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