Has Bethesda agreed with AMD not to include DLSS in Starfield?

[Alfatawi Mendel]

Given that Nvidia freely provides the tools required for anyone to integrate DLSS into a game, it's highly unlikely that it would take legal action against anyone doing a poor job of it.

They may supply the tools - But the developer must do the work.
Given that it's an AMD sponsored game, why would they divert resources to satisfy Nvidia's desires...and as I said...There is always the POSSIBILTY of legal problems, that both the developer and AMD would rather not have to worry about.

 

[Alfatawi Mendel]

Data can always be used to make a point. If we look at games released/patched with support from 2022 and forward we can see that:

75 games got support for DLSS but not FSR.
68 games got support for FSR but not DLSS.

OK we can assume some of these games are old and not relevant. And some of these games got FSR 1 or DLSS 1, which nobody in their right mind should use. If we only look at games released from 2022 and forward, with minimum FSR 2 or DLSS 2 we get:

34 games released with FSR 2 but not DLSS
52 games released with DLSS 2 but not FSR.

Source: pcgamingwiki

FSR works on Nvidia hardware too. At least *some* of the hardware that isn't artificially segmented by Nvidia themselves.

 

[Alfatawi Mendel]

LOL Nvidia Anti-consumer approach, all while AMD is paying people not to implement competitive technology.

The general problem with open-source applications is that sometimes they never become optimized. With DLSS, Nvidia has a vested interest in developing it and making it better. It's a competitive advantage, in their eyes. And AMD seems to think so too, if they are indeed paying people not to implement it. The bottom line is that neither DLSS nor FSR are primary drivers in a GPU purchase decision.

The bottom line is: Most of the Tech 'influencers' would like a word with you, given the amount of atricles that mention DLSS as a must-have, when Nvidia's rastering power falls short.

 

[punctualturn]

For posteriority

And at 10:30 into the video, Tim makes excuses for poor and defenseless nvidia. Then somehow, mentions physx, hairworks and instead of trashing nvidia for their clear anticonsumer move, he directs the narrative against AMD…

No intention of getting anyone triggered but the modding community is already promising support for dlss. https://www.tomshardware.com/news/modder-promises-dlss-3-early-starfield

Funny, I don’t remember those modders rushing to implement FSR when Cyberpunk launched.

Neither countless outraged news sites accusing nvidia of anticonsumer practices, etc.

 

[Sausage Legs]

This behaviour doesnt surprise me. AMD are generally more anti-consumer than Nvidia. Their products are riddled with bugs and they dont support them for as long. I gave up on Radeon recently, they used to be a lot cheaper and perform roughly the same but now they cost almost the same and do far less.

 

[godrilla]

And at 10:30 into the video, Tim makes excuses for poor and defenseless nvidia. Then somehow, mentions physx, hairworks and instead of trashing nvidia for their clear anticonsumer move, he directs the narrative against AMD…


Funny, I don’t remember those modders rushing to implement FSR when Cyberpunk launched.

Neither countless outraged news sites accusing nvidia of anticonsumer practices, etc.

Um because FSR was in its infancy stage. I believe modders don't become experts overnight but just in case you wanted the latest version FSR 2.2 came out last month via Nexus mod

FidelityFx Super Resolution 2.2 - FPS boost mod

Boost your FPS in Cyberpunk by replacing DLSS with FSR 2.2 which works on all GPUs.

www.nexusmods.com

I don't see any brand loyalists crying about lack of Xess support either.

 

[EdmondRC]

AMD should not attempt to block DLSS implementations and Nvidia should not block FSR implementations. By blocking one or the other, you are really just harming the owners of these GPUs. AMD had the choice to make FSR proprietary and so, that doesn't make Nvidia DLSS bad for being proprietary as it obviously requires hardware that AMD does not include in their GPUs. Blocking it is effectively only hurting Nvidia owners by not allowing them to make full use of their hardware. It's not selling AMD GPUs. It makes no sense, FSR is a great alternative if you do not have an RTX GPU. That alone should be enough to make people reconsider if DLSS is really a selling feature of RTX, but wondering if AMD is going to block should not be a factor.

 

[waclark]

DLSS is a proprietary technology. It is not up to AMD nor Bethesda to include its implementation - and would be legally risky to do so, since a poor implementation of it would leave themselves open to lawsuits from Nvidia.
FSR does the job just as well anyhow.

It is entirely up to the developer to include whatever technology they want in a software application, games or otherwise. If the HW vendor makes that available, as Nvidia and AMD do, then the SW developer is free to add it or not.

A poor implementation would not open Bethesda up to lawsuits. How many game developers have you seen sued over poorly optimized games on Windows, X-box, PlayStation or otherwise? You can't sue someone because they are bad programmers. The issue is whether AMD is paying people to not implement competitive technology. That would be a restraint of trade and anti-competitive behavior.

 

[waclark]

The bottom line is: Most of the Tech 'influencers' would like a word with you, given the amount of atricles that mention DLSS as a must-have, when Nvidia's rastering power falls short.

It's a secondary decision point. Raster performance and cost are the primary drivers for GPU purchases. When raster and cost are similar, we look to things like size, power draw, or maybe even performance in a specific game. DLSS support can tip the balance one way or the other but regardless of what influencers are saying, very few people start their decision to buy a GPU with a "it must have DLSS" statement.

Given that there are 3B gamers world-wide and given that one of the biggest tech influencers is LTT with about 15M subscribers and 1-2 million views per video, I'd say their influence is very limited.

 

[Nestea]

Df df

This behaviour doesnt surprise me. AMD are generally more anti-consumer than Nvidia. Their products are riddled with bugs and they dont support them for as long. I gave up on Radeon recently, they used to be a lot cheaper and perform roughly the same but now they cost almost the same and do far less.

ok dude. what? 3060 8gb vs 12 gb
780ti vs 290x
gtx 970 3.5gb fiasco
nvidia's love of soft-gimping VRAM

 

[Fizzy pop2]

I can see why there is no DlSS 4 as you need 4000 series boards which are not selling well. However DlSS 3 should be considered.

 

[waclark]

If Nvidia wants DLSS on there they will get it. If AMD are truly paying Bethesda I'm sure Nvidia can pay more.

And people should focus their rage towards Bethesda, nobody else.

And why not just ask them? If they lie they will eventually be found out and it would have a bigger impact on them to be caught doing this + lying about it.

Not if AMD gets there first. If AMD locks Bethesda into FSR only, there's not much Nvidia can do at that point, other than to get Bethesda to revoke any agreements with AMD, and I don't see that happening.

 

[Wrinkly]

AMD don't want a side by side comparison of FSR with DLSS and/or XeSS as FSR is just garbage. It's also sad that this AMD sponsorship/partnership/bribe will certainly hold back the amount of RT we see in the PC version as again AMD lose when RT is used.

Bottom line, if I wanted console crap I would have gone AMD. I didn't go AMD as I expect better. AMD need to use their cash to build better PC GPUs.

Very disappointing anti-consumer move by AMD.

 

[Wrinkly]

FSR work with all cards, DLSS is vendor restricted

This is true. But why should I be forced to use FSR, which is garbage, when I have DLSS capable hardware? Why when using an Intel GPU would I not want to use XeSS which again is superior to FSR? The only people using FSR are those who made a bad choice in purchasing a GPU or those who own a 6.5+ year old GPU.

 

[DSirius]

This is true. But why should I be forced to use FSR, which is garbage, when I have DLSS capable hardware? Why when using an Intel GPU would I not want to use XeSS which again is superior to FSR? The only people using FSR are those who made a bad choice in purchasing a GPU or those who own a 6.5+ year old GPU.

NO, it is not. FSR is very good, regardless if you claim that is garbage. And Nvidia is freaking out and whine too much about this.
And Nvidia started this "exclusivity" before AMD. Check for example Cyberpunk and Metro Exodus Nvidia exclusivity. Cyberpunk implemented FSR only after community made mods which implemented FSR and practically forced CDPR devs to recognize that they could implemented it sooner. Metro Exodus devs, even nowadays refuse to implement FSR even when community made mods which implemented FSR fine.
And is funny how you contradict yourself with your own words. So all buyers of Nvidia GTX1xxx cards made a bad choice in your limited vision, because do not support DLSS but works perfectly with FSR.
To your "logic", those who bought RTX2xxx and RTX3xxx cards also made a bad choice regarding DLSS3, because they do not support DLSS3.
Your arguments fumble poorly. What videocard do you have? And even if you do have an RTX4xxx card next year you may find what a bad choice you made when Nvidia will release DLSS4 which will work only on RTX 5xxx or 6xxx next gen. And you can blame Nvidia which screwed it's own customers with artificial market segmentation, and of course yourself, for your bad choice.
Consumers are more intelligent than Nvidia Anticonsumer approach with it's dark pattern artificial market segmentation. If you like it, than is your own choice, but better do the math, or even better, enjoy whatever videocard you have, because soon, Nvidia DLSS4 "exclusivity" will come to help you better understand how "good" or bad is your choice.
And nobody is forcing you to use FSR, AMD is not like Nvidia which locked it's own customers with artificial market segmentation (at least until nowadays, in the future who knows what kind of shady bussiness model these companies may bring).
Starfield will play fine on Nvidia cards without DLSS as Cyberpunk or Metro Exodus play on AMD videocards without FSR.