I want to upgrade my graphics card from GeForce 6600

By Jonat · 202 replies
Jun 17, 2013
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  1. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,993   +2,528

    If it were my PC, I'd uninstall all the drivers of the same name, then reboot. That's a "Hail Mary" play though, and it's not my computer. LookinAroundknows a lot about drivers. Why don't you scoot him a PM and see if he can help.

    This is getting to the point where I'd wipe the computer, and reinstall Windows. S*** builds up over time, by virtue of years of software changes, Windows updates, and file corruption. But again, I'm not recommending this, just giving MHO.

    The point of the M$ sound driver escapes me, unless it's there for Windows sounds. Normally, most multi-channel audio is (also?) managed with devices and drivers from Realtek Corp.
    Jonat likes this.
  2. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,993   +2,528

    These are generic M$ drivers. Do they even normally show up in "Add or Remove Programs"?

    It seems lie a buggered up system file is installing multiple copies of the same driver. But why, that I don't know.

    Windows is installing, (trying to install), multiple instances of the same driver to the same memory address(es)
    Jonat likes this.
  3. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    Re: seeing 2 instances of the same device in Device Manager

    It's normal to see multiple instances of the same device in DevMgr when you have multiple instances of the same hardware device connected to your machine.

    As case in point, here's how I interpret Jonat's Device Manager snapshot that shows two "MS UAA Bus Driver for High Definition Audio" devices.

    First, I must digress and explain High Definition (HD) Audio. By definition of the HD Audio architecture standard, Windows talks to HD Audio like this
    Windows <===> HD Audio Controller <===> HD Audio Devices
    A board that supports HD Audio has its own HD Audio Controller
    > HD Audio devices connects to the board's HD Audio controller
    > Windows only talks to HD Audio controllers. The controllers connect and "talk" to the HD audio devices. (Think of it much like the relation between Windows, USB controllers and USB devices)

    Jonat, your DevMgr displays two HD Audio controllers because
    > You have onboard and offboard audio enabled in BIOS
    > Both your mobo and your graphics card support HD Audio. So each, has its own HD Audio Controller
    > Thus, DevMgr is displaying both the controllers and you see TWO devices

    Here's another tip: Use DevMgr to see how your devices connect to each other. Set DevMgr to display "Devices by Connection". This allows you to distinguish between what looks like identical devices. (By default, DevMgr displays devices grouped by Category)

    At the top of Device Manager, click View->Devices by Connection.
    > Expand ACPI devices till you get down to the PCI bus.
    > Then expand everything under PCI till you see each connected device

    Here's a snapshot from my computer set to View devices by connection. This makes it easy to distinguish between your onboard and offboard Audio controllers
    Dev Relationships.
    Jonat likes this.
  4. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    P.s. I know after all said in my prior, it still doesn't solve all your problems. But it will take me some to catch up to the thread. Also, do you need both onboard and offboard audio enbaled? In theory, things should still work with both enabled. On the other hand, if you don't need your onboard audio better to disable it in BIOS
    Jonat likes this.
  5. Jonat

    Jonat TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 64

    Here you are: My Devices by Connection screen shot



    + also added screenshot of the Realtek driver in 'add remove'

    Would disabling the driver help?

    Attached Files:

  6. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,993   +2,528

    None of which explains the error Windows is returning about no memory addresses being available for the second instance of the driver. Unless the addresses were onboard another device.

    Keep in mind this 915 board may only have a 32 bit BIOS. A 32 bit BIOS will show less than 4GB to an OS, the same as a 32 bit OS, will always show less than 4GB to the operator.

    (That assumes I've interpreted the original Intel manual correctly that came with my 915 board).

    See photo attached at Jonat's post #143
    Jonat likes this.
  7. mailpup

    mailpup TS Special Forces Posts: 7,186   +469

    You are correct. They don't show up in Add or Remove Programs.
    Jonat likes this.
  8. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    First, my "mea culpa and full disclosure" I'm not a gamer nor a graphics aficionado. I'm fairly ignorant of graphics hardware related details and discussion of things such as graphic settings, PSU, FPS and the like (which is why I seldom post in these graphic card threads). So I defer to all the expertise on all the others about those details

    I'll interpret the device/driver data that I can read from your posts and maybe a collective effort at this will help

    Look at the DevMgr expanded device snapshot your provided in your post #155
    • That first HDA controller (with the yellow bang) is the one on your GT 630 card having the problem
    • The other HDA controller is on your motherboard. It's working. DevMgr shows the Realtek devices connected to it (those Realtek devices are also on your mobo) The Realtek drivers you find in Add/Remove are for the Realtek on the mobo.
    Note that no audio devices are shown connected to the HDA controller that's on your GT630. That's cuz the device driver isn't working right (the Code 12 problem)

    fyi... Both those HDA controllers are using the same M$ generic driver that comes in Windows. As the captain said, you won't find this M$ driver in Add/Remove. Is good to try uninstalling it using DevMgr but should always expect it to reinstall itself on reboot. (Or in DevMgr you can click Action->Scan for Hardware Changes also causes Windows to reinstall the MS UAA driver)
      • Question 1: Are you running XP SP3? Are you current on Windows updates and have all the critical updates installed?
    For now, go into BIOS and disable your onboard audio. Probably won't make a difference but let's take the motherboard HDA controller and those Realtek devices out of the equation. (Once on board audio is disabled they won't appear in Device Manager any longer)

    I'll be back later once I have a chance to look further
    Jonat likes this.
  9. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    Jonat likes this.
  10. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,993   +2,528

    This has always been a bone of contention but.....IMHO, you should leave the PSU plugged into the wall, but turn of the switch on back, and bleed the system down by pressing the power button in for a few seconds.

    The PSU's ground wire is also connected to its case, and by extension the case of the PC.

    So, if you have any static charge, when you touch the PC case, (as you should before sticking your hands anywhere inside), that charge will be shunted to the house's system ground, or "earth" as they say in Great Britain.

    With the PSU unplugged, the charge really has no place to go. (Well at least other than back through your feet into the carpet).

    I realize this is moot at this point in the thread, but I have self control issues and couldn't resist sharing this.

    Is it possible that the video driver is at fault?

    Possibly this board has a 32 bit BIOS. If that were the case, would that explain why the OS is having trouble finding memory addresses for the card's audio?

    Is it possible that the memory saved by shutting down the onboard audio, will be utilized by the HDA driver associated with the video card.. (I guess we'll know soon enough on that one)...:oops:
    Jonat likes this.
  11. Jonat

    Jonat TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 64

    I have just installed the latest Intel chipset drivers + included a screen shot of that

    My Windows is service pack 3 XP + have included a screenshot of that and other info on my PC

    Say what I need to do next and I will : if I need to go ahead with the Bios thing you may have to help me with that as I don't know what that is or how to use it/get to it.


    side issue #1:
    for captaincranky There is no switch on the back of my PC which is weird

    side issue #2
    I don't know if this has anything to do with the current problems but 'ArcSoft Connect Daemon' pops up every time I restart my PC ( has appeared for a while now +m I think even before I changed my GPU

    Attached Files:

  12. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    All good questions. But as I read the list, I expected it to end with "Stayed tuned! Same bat time, same bat channel!" :p (The humour may be lost on some of our younger readers. )

    Though your question of BIOS reminded me one of more thing: Resource allocation may be done by BIOS, by Windows or a combination of both. Jonat What version of BIOS are you running? Have you checked if any BIOS updates are available for your board? (I wouldn't do a BIOS update just yet. But it's worth checking to see)
    Jonat likes this.
  13. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 9,724   +3,697

    Not really that weird. I don't know the exact ratio, so I'm just gonna say 50/50 chances that you would have a switch on the PSU. I've seen plenty of PSU's that had switches and plenty that didn't.
    Jonat likes this.
  14. Jonat

    Jonat TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 64

    Here is a screen shot of my Bios version + system information

    how do I check if any Bios updates are available for my board?

    Attached Files:

  15. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    Now that the chipset drivers are updated
    > Right click-> Uninstall the HDA controller with the yellow bang
    > Then at top of DevMgr, click Action->Scan for Hardware Change
    > Windows will reinstall the driver. Does it still have the yellow bang?
    That's a nuisance startup we can fix later. It shouldn't be affecting your graphics card issue

    To report BIOS and other info
    Generate and attach a DirectX report
    • Click Start->Run, enter dxdiag and click OK
      ===> If you’re running 32 bit Windows, dxdiag will launch on its own
      ===> If you’re running 64 bit Windows, you’ll see 64-bit DxDiag. Click it to launch the 64-bit version of dxdiag
    • Notice progress in lower left window corner
    • When done, click Save Information button and save as a text file to your Desktop
    • Click the Upload a File button to upload and attach the file to your next TechSpot post

    Current Status of Blue screen crashes and graphics card behavior?
    So if the yellow bang still occurs on the graphics card HDA controller, I don't expect audio on that card to work.
    > Is your onboard sound still enabled at this point?
    > Other then audio on graphics card not working, how is the blue screen situation? How does the graphics card otherwise seem to be behaving?
  16. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    P.s. Do you have a time window in which you can return the new graphics card if we can't get things working? What is it? It would be good to know the cut-off date just in case it comes down to that point
  17. Jonat

    Jonat TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 64

    I uninstalled the offending driver and then scanned for hardware changes and it has not reappeared +I have attached a screenshot of what it looks like now

    - Youtube music seems to play fine through the PC.
    - PC games seems to have the audio working fine too
    - PC seems to be calm - sometimes its randomly has loud fan noises.

    I have attached my bios - is it safe to attach it (private info etc)?

    What do you mean by time window?

    Attached Files:

  18. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    I meant, if you had the option to return the GT 330 by a certain date and get your $$ money back if we couldn't get it to work

    I don't see anything private in your Dxdiag report. But I have a copy of it now, so OK if you'd rather delete it from your post

    Hmmm... that's still an odd result... Here's why: Remember that Device Manager entries show the devices connected to your computer (whether or not the device has a driver installed or not and regardless of the device driver working correctly or not).

    Right clicking a device->Uninstall, uninstalls the underlying devjce driver... but NOT the device. The hardware device remains connected. So, I would still expect the device to still appear in DevMgr somewhere (whether with or without the yellow icon) though when a driver's missing it may appear with a different device name or listed under a different category (e.g. a category called Other Devices)

    So what does all that mean? It means the HDA controller on your graphics card isn't being detected at all right now. :confused: That's a problem if you should want to use High Def sound off of the graphics card. But if
    > You're happy with using the Realtek Hi Def Audio on the motherboard
    > Just using the video signal off the graphics card
    > And there are no more blue screens or video issues right now
    Maybe OK/best to leave things as are.

    fyi... From what I can tell, I also believe there is a new BIOS available on the Compaq website BUT
    > BIOS upgrades can be tricky and
    > It's not clear the BIOS upgrade has anything to do with your issues
    So probably best not to do BIOS upgrade either at this point

    Bottom line: If you're happy with audio and video on your machine as of now.. and you're not getting any more blue screen crashes, maybe we just leave well enough alone and leave things as they are? If that sounds OK with you at this point
  19. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,993   +2,528

    OK. In that case, you would just kill the power on the surge protector or power strip, whichever one you're using. This still breaks the connection from the hot lead, but leaves the ground and neutral terminal connected, exactly the same thing as the switch on the PSU does.

    What, if any Arcsoft software do or did you ever have installed on your computer. It seems you still have a process running that is trying to, "phone home".
    Jonat likes this.
  20. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 9,724   +3,697

    Capacitors do not need to be grounded to discharge their stored electricity. They only need to complete a circuit between both positive and negative polls. The larger the load, the faster the capacitor drains. Keeping the PSU connected to house ground serves no purpose in draining capacitors. You can still get the shock of your life regardless of whether the PSU is connected to house ground, if you personally are the one to complete the circuit draining the capacitor.

    This is a non-issue for the OP anyway, because the OP is not poking around inside the PSU. And as long as the PSU is turned off there is no power to do any damage within the PC case. Even if the PSU was turned on there is not enough output power to do any harm to the OP. You would have greater chance of electrocution underneath the hood of a car. That is if you were stupid enough to play with the coil wires. There is more power in the battery of any car, than there is in any PC PSU output. If you are not poking around inside the PSU, you don't have to worry about the AC current inside the PSU.
    Jonat likes this.
  21. Jonat

    Jonat TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 64

    An update:

    I switched the PC on this morning to get a 'system change' pop up saying exactly the same as image I attached in post #148. I then wet away from the computer for a few mins only to hear the PC switch off and then reappear to the 'blue screen' - so I then switched the PC off and then on again.
    The pop up did not reappear but the offending driver with the yellow symbol has reappeared. An 'error report' did appear upon switching the PC on as well so I have attached a screen shot of that.

    - would disabling the offending driver in device manager help - making it have the red cross appear (I've attached a screenshot of that too which I have now done)

    The GT630

    The new card seems to work great on three games I have on my PC (Richard Burns Rally, PRO EVO 11 + city car driving) - getting the top graphics on them compared to the GT6600. It does not play FIFA 13 football game (I'll refund it) which is just very laggy so I won't attempt any more games other than those I use now.

    - Will I notice the High Def not being there - is it that much of a difference?

    I guess I just wanted an upgraded card to get a bit more performance from my games but that be safe + works OK with my current Pentium 4 set up etc. I'm happy to keep the new one as long as it's not causing any damage to my PC - if it is then maybe it's best to swap the old GT6600 back and accept my PC as it is?


    Having been 3 hours after disabling the offending driver I have noticed that the PC seems a lot calmer and there has been no blue screen issues and the PC is even going into 'sleep mode' as normal when not used instead of going to a blue screen.

    side issue

    captaincranky I'm not sure when I installed Arcsoft - seems to be some panorama 5 thing (see attached screenshot) - is it best just so uninstall it completely?

    Attached Files:

  22. LookinAround

    LookinAround Ex Tech Spotter Posts: 6,491   +184

    Ah-ha! So power cycling the PC caused the HDA controller on the graphics card to be re-detected. That's at least good to know.

    I couldn't predict the outcome of disabling. So, I was going to suggest you just try disabling and see what happens.. but looks like you're already ahead of me and gave us the answer! I don't know what's causing that resource conflict, so seems disabling the device is best solution.

    1. I don't know if HD audio quality on motherboard would be different then HD audio from GT 630. (Maybe someone else might?) But would guess HD Audio from your motherboard will be fine for your needs

    2. I'm guessing you're connecting to your monitor using the DVI port?
    Jonat likes this.
  23. Jonat

    Jonat TS Rookie Topic Starter Posts: 64

    I'm not quite sure - mine is connected with a blue cable and some other cable out of that. - I've attached a screenshot

    So I guess disabling it is better than altering it in Bios - or would that be the same thing or I disabling it safer?

    Attached Files:

  24. captaincranky

    captaincranky TechSpot Addict Posts: 12,993   +2,528

    Well Cliff, that's all well and good, but nobody is talking about draining capacitors. I was specifically talking about draining the charge from a human about to enter the case.

    Please don't try and lecture about this issue. My father was a TV repairman, and I could repair a tube hi-fi amp when I was ten. And trust me, they have some big a** high voltage capacitors in them.

    And BTW, the "ground side of the board"., is connected to the PSU ground, which is connected to the house ground, as is the computer case.

    And yeah in the sense of dealing with static electricity, the positive side of the capacitor is the human, and the negative side is the ground. So, the "capacitor" would discharge to ground.

    Skip all the crap. If you break the hot lead, either by switching the PSU or Power strip off, the cap will bleed to ground, which is the negative terminal. It requires a load across the cap to ground to do so. In the case of the audio amp, the B+ (high voltage) of the PSU goes to the plate of the output tubes, which is loaded to ground by the primary winding of the output transformer.

    Switching off the PSU prevents the caps from recharging.

    The only way you could do as you suggest, "connect the positive of the cap to the negative and discharge it", would be to take it out of the circuit, because the negative side of all the PSU caps ARE already connected to ground, and components in the board provide the load to ground for the discharge.

    This is imperfect, because if you kill the PSU switch, you can still drain more out of the system caps, by holding in the power switch.
    Jonat likes this.
  25. cliffordcooley

    cliffordcooley TS Guardian Fighter Posts: 9,724   +3,697

    Well whoop ti do, that means you should know a static arm band doesn't care if the ground is floating or not. As long as the arm band equalizes the charge between you and the ground of the circuit you are working on, there will not be a static discharge. And touching a conductive part of the case will do the exact equivalent. What you are suggesting is over-kill and completely unnecessary. If you are looking for someone to argue with till the end of all time, I am your man.
    Jonat likes this.

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