I've just upgraded my Ryzen 5 1600 to a 3600 for £145, honestly it's the best performance upgrade for the money for Ryzen 1st gen owners on older 300 series motherboards.
Intel Core i5-11400F Review: The New Value Champ
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AlaskaGuy
Posts: 868 +848
Both the 10400F and 11400F mop the floor with the 3600 and they do it for cheaper. The 3600 is not a good cpu for gaming, especially when you consider its price.
As far as an upgrade path for the 11400F ...
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-10700F-Desktop-Processor-Graphics/dp/B086MN2XYL
Intel Core i7-10700F $263.30
Intel Core i7-11700F $329.99
We are talking here about mainstream gaming CPU. The upgrade path is irrelevant here as it refers to different use class (productivity) of a PC. Doubling cores will get you very little noticeable improvement in games and general use at much higher sticker price and higher power draw. And on top of that if you spend now $200 on R3600 with a goal of spending additional $600 + decent cooling in the future makes it even worse.
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AlaskaGuy
Posts: 868 +848
Especially when you factor in the cost of a MB.
Add a set of CL16 3200Mhz RAM to a cheap H510 or B560 board and you're off to the races.
https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-B560-PLUS-Motherboard-DisplayPort-Thunderbolt/dp/B08WRMG17M/
ASUS Prime B560-PLUS $119.99
Irata
Posts: 2,288 +4,002
3600 boxed is €179, tray €159, both in stock.
Lowest price for an 11400F I found (Germany) is € 164,68 but that‘s on back order. Other retailers charge €200+ and even there it‘s not in stock.
The thing about Ryzen us that you can run them on their stock coolers or cheap mainboards and you still get pretty much the same performance as on more expensive boards.
With Intel that has gotten better with B560 vs. B460, but to get the reviewed performance you do need to spend.
It‘s cute how on one side the budget solution prices and stock PL1 / PL2 are used, but on the other hand the unlocked performance using premium boards and cooling.
It‘s not an „and“ situation, it‘s „either / or“ with Intel.
AlaskaGuy
Posts: 868 +848
Opposite in the US, UK and Canada.
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/amd...-turbo-32mb-l3-pcie-40-65w-with-wraith-stealt
AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Was: £184.99 now £178.99
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/int...reads-26ghz-44ghz-turbo-12mb-cache-65w-retail
Intel Core i5 11400F £149.99
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/int...s-12-threads-29ghz-43ghz-turbo-12mb-cache-65w
Intel Core i5 10400F £124.99
https://www.scan.co.uk/products/asr...-ddr4-pcie-40-sata3-3x-m2-gbe-usb-32-gen1-atx
ASRock B560 PRO4 £104.99
Digitalzone
Posts: 185 +108
Both the 10400F and 11400F mop the floor with the 3600 and they do it for cheaper. The 3600 is not a good cpu for gaming, especially when you consider its price.
As far as an upgrade path for the 11400F ...
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-10700F-Desktop-Processor-Graphics/dp/B086MN2XYL
Intel Core i7-10700F $263.30
Intel Core i7-11700F $329.99
Ryzen 3600 is 2019. It did great job at the time, it's good to see Intel catching up.
Also, I would get the iGPU 11400 version. That's the way to go, especially now.
Raendor
Posts: 36 +27
Lol, people build many systems with 5600x + 3080 or 6800(xt). So why a cpu that's not really far off that said 5600x, especially at 1440p with almost non-existent difference, makes it unrealistic combo?
Next gen "midrange" will be 16 cores? Meaning high end will be at least 20 cores. Wanna bet?
Mop the floor = difference that is hard to notice without benchmarksBoth the 10400F and 11400F mop the floor with the 3600 and they do it for cheaper. The 3600 is not a good cpu for gaming, especially when you consider its price.
As far as an upgrade path for the 11400F ...
https://www.amazon.com/Intel-i7-10700F-Desktop-Processor-Graphics/dp/B086MN2XYL
Intel Core i7-10700F $263.30
Intel Core i7-11700F $329.99
Using same logic, 3600 wipes flooe with 11400 when it comes to power consumption.Going from 6C/12T to 8C/12T hardly makes any sense, only 33% more cores with no IPC improvement. If you plan to upgrade to 11700F, then forget 11400F and buy 11700F right away.
On AMD side, 5900X offers 100% more cores and 5950X offers 166% more cores. Noth also offer around 15% IPC improvement. Fair to say 10400F has no upgrade paths available when looking what AMD has to offer.
Oh yeah, I remember when 4 cores without HT was good for games for many years, it wasn't. 4 cores with HT also should have been future proof, and what happened?
You could never know how your computing needs could change. And then just upgrading CPU is much cheaper than buy everything new.
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AlaskaGuy
Posts: 868 +848
Does the 5900X support DDR5 because that's where we are headed within the next few years.Next gen "midrange" will be 16 cores? Meaning high end will be at least 20 cores. Wanna bet?
Mop the floor = difference that is hard to notice without benchmarks
Going from 6C/12T to 8C/12T hardly makes any sense, only 33% more cores with no IPC improvement. If you plan to upgrade to 11700F, then forget 11400F and buy 11700F right away.
On AMD side, 5900X offers 100% more cores and 5950X offers 166% more cores. Noth also offer around 15% IPC improvement. Fair to say 10400F has no upgrade paths available when looking what AMD has to offer.
Oh yeah, I remember when 4 cores without HT was good for games for many years, it wasn't. 4 cores with HT also should have been future proof, and what happened?
You could never know how your computing needs could change. And then just upgrading CPU is much cheaper than buy everything new.
Irata
Posts: 2,288 +4,002
That is a noticeable price difference. Problem is the 11400F is not in stock - it‘s pre-order only, due April 30th.
Same for the B560 board you listed - that‘s due May 5th.
So if you buy right now, it‘s the 10400F on a £103 Asus Prime Plus (the only available B460 board at scan) which gets you lower performance, less IO and PCIe 3, plus no real upgrade path), or you get a £149 MSI Z490 A Pro for about the same gaming performance than a Ryzen 3600. But at least the board can handle a 10900k if you want to upgrade later on.
For the same price you can get a very nice B550 board, have better IO and a nice upgrade path to Zen 3 and if you‘re lucky and Zen 3+ on AM4 is a thing, even that.
Raendor
Posts: 36 +27
I have 11400f in my house alongside with the b560-I rog board. Pretty much the whole 11 lineup is available for msrp in continental Europe. Regions play some difference for sure.
Irata
Posts: 2,288 +4,002
I was replying specifically to AlaskaGuy‘s UK example as the price difference quoted was quite a bit different there.
So yes, you can get them in continental Europe, but the 3600 is also much cheaper over here.
So not quite sure what your reply‘s point was.
Raendor
Posts: 36 +27
Thought it was about general availability.
Yeah, 3600 is now 199 EUR vs 159 EUR for 11400f, so I won't be surprised to see prices jump around in other regions.
Irata
Posts: 2,288 +4,002
At Mindfactory you can get the 3600 boxed for €178 or if you don‘t need the HSF as tray version for €159 but the latter is on back order.
The choice depends on your use case - if you want to mainly game and not upgrade your CPU down the road then the 11400F sounds preferable.
It also depends on the GPU you have, the resolution you play at and the type of games you play.
In the case of high fps competitive shooters for example, it shouldn‘t even be a contest between the 3600 and 11400 as the latter probably massacres the 3600 at the same price point but in turn probably has the same thing done to it by the 5600X, although at a noticeably higher price point.
Alfatawi Mendel
Posts: 299 +497
Please show me where I said that the 3600 benchmarked better. It is clear however that the 3600 is still better VFM. Which was the whole point of the article.
Shadowboxer
Posts: 2,074 +1,655
So this is the part people should be buying as it offers the best “bang for the buck”. It’s like buying a small, cheap family car.
Personally though I’m an enthusiast and I like to spend more and get better, even if it’s poor value. And that’s why I’m very happy to see my recently purchased 5800X at the top of the graphs, which I guess is like a V8 saloon?
Although the odd thing is that if we are comparing efficiency then the V8 saloon is technically a lot more energy efficient or “economical” as they describe that in cars.
Personally though I’m an enthusiast and I like to spend more and get better, even if it’s poor value. And that’s why I’m very happy to see my recently purchased 5800X at the top of the graphs, which I guess is like a V8 saloon?
Although the odd thing is that if we are comparing efficiency then the V8 saloon is technically a lot more energy efficient or “economical” as they describe that in cars.
No. But DDR5 will unlikely offer huge performance gains when it arrives. And probably not even after few years.
Also there may be "Zen3 with DDR5 support".
My wife shares my gaming PC for Photoshop/Lightroom/Lightroom Classic, looking at these benchmarks I'm really glad I chose the 5800x and I got it for $40 less than MSRP! It's a great value both for gaming and productivity without compromise. Paired with a RTX 3080 I managed to get a month after launch, we both should be good for a while.
The 11400f is great for an inexpensive build, but at the moment, with the GPU prices and shortage, it seems almost irrelevant to talk about inexpensive processors for gaming. If gaming is all you do with the machine I can see the 11400F saving you some costs, but I would still shoot for the 5600X due to better efficiency, the 5600x if you can get one will probably still save you in the long run.
The 11400f is great for an inexpensive build, but at the moment, with the GPU prices and shortage, it seems almost irrelevant to talk about inexpensive processors for gaming. If gaming is all you do with the machine I can see the 11400F saving you some costs, but I would still shoot for the 5600X due to better efficiency, the 5600x if you can get one will probably still save you in the long run.
Shadowboxer
Posts: 2,074 +1,655
Yeah I managed to get a 5800X, Asus TUF X570 and 16GB of 3600 CL18 memory as a bundle for only £80 more than buying a 5600X with the same mobo and ram separately.
Bundles are the way to go, you can save so much. Particularly at the low end. I saw a few bundles of a 10400F, RAM and mobo for less than £300 when I bought my 5800X. And you don’t need expensive motherboards for a non K Intel CPU as they can’t overclock anyway.
I saw some of those bundles and the only think I could think of was upgradability later, but yeah, seemed strange to bungle a non-K processor with a z590 board.
The 5800x was maligned a bit due to only being $100 cheaper than the 5900x and only having 2 more cores than the 5600x. Simply because of that and the hype that surrounds the 5600x, it was pretty easy for me to get one and getting it for $409 was a great bargin in my book. Especially, when the 5600x was $349 simply because of hype and stock issues. $60 for two additional cores isn't bad in my book.
This is purely theoretical and has nothing to do with how most consumers buy PCs. How often do you replace/upgrade you PC? On average it's about 4-6 years and maybe even more depending on your needs and current tech. After this time I can assure you everything will be considerably better and RAM will be incompatible because it will be at least DDR5 and maybe DDR6. So yes you will be upgrading everything and will not want to look at a 4-6 year-old 8 or even 12 core CPU which first of all will be out of stock as it will no longer be produced and second performance and efficiency of which will be worse than even the cheapest current offering.Next gen "midrange" will be 16 cores? Meaning high end will be at least 20 cores. Wanna bet?
Mop the floor = difference that is hard to notice without benchmarks
Going from 6C/12T to 8C/12T hardly makes any sense, only 33% more cores with no IPC improvement. If you plan to upgrade to 11700F, then forget 11400F and buy 11700F right away.
On AMD side, 5900X offers 100% more cores and 5950X offers 166% more cores. Noth also offer around 15% IPC improvement. Fair to say 10400F has no upgrade paths available when looking what AMD has to offer.
Oh yeah, I remember when 4 cores without HT was good for games for many years, it wasn't. 4 cores with HT also should have been future proof, and what happened?
You could never know how your computing needs could change. And then just upgrading CPU is much cheaper than buy everything new.
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Irata
Posts: 2,288 +4,002
I have upgraded several old PC in order for them to stay relevant / useable. Normally that‘s replacing the HDD with an SSD, adding more memory or adding a cheap GPU. That depends on the use case.
For me, the prospect of getting 40% better performance by replacing my 2700X (bought at EOL) prices with a Zen 3 CPU at reduced EOL prices is an attractive thought.
Building an all new PC is usually quite expensive and time consuming, bit by bit upgrades a lot easier.
My approach with all kinds of electronics has been to get marked down last gen products rather than the latest products unless the latter allows me to do something I cannot do with last gen. Your mileage may differ.
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