Judge voids Elon Musk's $56 billion Tesla pay package, threatening his position as world's...

Just a reality check for the Tesla boys: the CEO of Novo Nordisk, a corporation with five times the 2023 profits of Tesla, received compensation of around 10mio dollars for the year. A year that saw novo profits grow with more than Tesla’s entire profit.

THAT, is the difference between reasonable CEO compensation, and ‘murica, with its absurd CEO worship.
 
Just a reality check for the Tesla boys: the CEO of Novo Nordisk, a corporation with five times the 2023 profits of Tesla, received compensation of around 10mio dollars for the year. A year that saw novo profits grow with more than Tesla’s entire profit.

THAT, is the difference between reasonable CEO compensation, and ‘murica, with its absurd CEO worship.
It's a nice irony to compare this company with any other, and put words like fair in the same sentence. Thanks for making me laugh.


Let's think a little, people. It is still private, in the sense of not being state-owned. Judges have nothing to do in this case, no one killed or committed any crime against anyone. Companies have governance mechanisms to make their own decisions.
 
Yes, it's an obscene amount. But judges meddling with private companies is a toga dictatorship.

This is a question for the shareholder committee to decide.

Can you read? It's in the first paragraph:

"Tesla shareholder Richard Tornetta filed a lawsuit after the EV giant granted Musk the largest executive compensation package in history. Tornetta accused Tesla of breaching its fiduciary duty by unjustly enriching its CEO."

"What does it mean to be a fiduciary?

A fiduciary is someone who manages money or property for someone else. When you're named a fiduciary and accept the role, you must – by law – manage the person's money and property for their benefit, not yours."

"fiduciary
/fɪˈdjuːʃ(ə)ri/
adjective

  1. 1.
    LAW
    involving trust, especially with regard to the relationship between a trustee and a beneficiary.
    "the company has a fiduciary duty to shareholders"
 
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Can you read? It's in the first paragraph:

"Tesla shareholder Richard Tornetta filed a lawsuit after the EV giant granted Musk the largest executive compensation package in history. Tornetta accused Tesla of breaching its fiduciary duty by unjustly enriching its CEO."

"What does it mean to be a fiduciary?

A fiduciary is someone who manages money or property for someone else. When you're named a fiduciary and accept the role, you must – by law – manage the person's money and property for their benefit, not yours."

"fiduciary
/fɪˈdjuːʃ(ə)ri/
adjective

  1. 1.
    LAW
    involving trust, especially with regard to the relationship between a trustee and a beneficiary.
    "the company has a fiduciary duty to shareholders"
A minority appealing to a judge in an attempt to override the majority and break the rules is all I see.
 
Nobody is denying that the company grew
Understatement of the century, Puiu. 1200% growth to a $1T valuation in just over three years -- the fastest such growth by far in all human history, you describe as saying "the company grew". LOL, ok.

I don't think you understand the difference between a shareholder and a board member.
I understand quite well. The shareholders of Tesla voted in these board members, who wisely made Musk this offer, an offer that is in no way extraordinary or unusual. The only "unusual" thing here is Tesla's growth. The CEOs of companies like Ford, GM, and Tesla are regularly paid multi-million dollar salaries for losing their company's billions of dollars. Musk was paid no more than he deserved.

Is the number too big for you to register just how much money 56bil is even for a company like Tesla?
The number is big only because Tesla is big. And Tesla is big only because of Musk. I realize you live in a nation with a long proud history of socialism, where people would rather all starve together than see themselves prosper among billionaires, but the facts are clear. Musk made every shareholder of Tesla rich. A 400% return on investment every year for 3 years? No one gets that from a multi-billion dollar corporation.

Tesla shares dropped for good reason. It's Musk's fault for trying to cheat the shareholders.
What universe are you in? When Musk received this pay package, Tesla's shares exploded in value. When a judge took it back, Tesla's shared dropped. This is the reality.
 
This is what happens in when you incorporate in a blue state.

Tesla would not be Tesla without Musk. Period, love him...hate him. He is the reason all the shareholders have made as much as they have on their investments. Tesla needs to incorporate in Texas and get the hell out of Delaware.

And, if you have not figured it out. Musk is a investor. He invests in things no one else has achieved.
 
Just a reality check for the Tesla boys: the CEO of Novo Nordisk, a corporation with five times the 2023 profits of Tesla, received compensation of around 10mio dollars for the year.

THAT, is the difference between reasonable CEO compensation, and ‘murica, with its absurd CEO worship.
LOL yes, and in 2018 -- a year where Novo Nordisk LOST money, the CEO received a 30% pay hike from DKK 10.7 million to 13.9 million. Even the board members voted themselves a pay raise. They literally paid themselves and the CEO millions of dollars to lose money for the company's owners.

That's the difference between the socialists mindset and the mentality of success. Lars Jorgenson prefers to be paid huge sums regardless of how well he actually performs his job. Musk took an enormous gamble: He accepted a salary of zero dollars ... plus a bonus package that was astronomical only because he gifted Tesla the largest growth in all recorded history. .
 
LOL yes, and in 2018 -- a year where Novo Nordisk LOST money, the CEO received a 30% pay hike from DKK 10.7 million to 13.9 million. Even the board members voted themselves a pay raise. They literally paid themselves and the CEO millions of dollars to lose money for the company's owners.

That's the difference between the socialists mindset and the mentality of success. Lars Jorgenson prefers to be paid huge sums regardless of how well he actually performs his job. Musk took an enormous gamble: He accepted a salary of zero dollars ... plus a bonus package that was astronomical only because he gifted Tesla the largest growth in all recorded history. .
"Musk took an enormous gamble: He accepted a salary of zero dollars" - you do realise that he owns 22% of the shares, right? He literally gambled nothing.

And you are trying to compared a CEO that received an outrageous 14mil pay with somebody who wants to receive 56 BILLION.
 
Understatement of the century, Puiu. 1200% growth to a $1T valuation in just over three years -- the fastest such growth by far in all human history, you describe as saying "the company grew". LOL, ok.


I understand quite well. The shareholders of Tesla voted in these board members, who wisely made Musk this offer, an offer that is in no way extraordinary or unusual. The only "unusual" thing here is Tesla's growth. The CEOs of companies like Ford, GM, and Tesla are regularly paid multi-million dollar salaries for losing their company's billions of dollars. Musk was paid no more than he deserved.


The number is big only because Tesla is big. And Tesla is big only because of Musk. I realize you live in a nation with a long proud history of socialism, where people would rather all starve together than see themselves prosper among billionaires, but the facts are clear. Musk made every shareholder of Tesla rich. A 400% return on investment every year for 3 years? No one gets that from a multi-billion dollar corporation.


What universe are you in? When Musk received this pay package, Tesla's shares exploded in value. When a judge took it back, Tesla's shared dropped. This is the reality.
"The number is big only because Tesla is big" - makes zero sense. Paying him 20% of the revenue (full, revenue, not net profits) from 2019 to 2023 is just stupid.
 
It's a nice irony to compare this company with any other, and put words like fair in the same sentence. Thanks for making me laugh.


Let's think a little, people. It is still private, in the sense of not being state-owned. Judges have nothing to do in this case, no one killed or committed any crime against anyone. Companies have governance mechanisms to make their own decisions.
No, it is a public stock, and the board is beholden to the shareholders by law. If the board breaks that trust to the benefit of the CEO this is against the law. The shareholders sued, and won.
 
And you are trying to compared a CEO that received an outrageous 14mil pay with somebody who wants to receive 56 BILLION.
Listen closely, Puiu. I'm going to give you a choice. You've invested in a company and you can choose a CEO for $14M to lose you money. Or you can hire a CEO for $56B to make you wealthy beyond belief. Which do you choose?
The shareholders sued, and won.
No, the vast majority of shareholders didn't support the lawsuit. This suit was brought by a thrash metal drummer named Richard Tornetta, who owns less than 0.0001% of Tesla.
 
Listen closely, Puiu. I'm going to give you a choice. You've invested in a company and you can choose a CEO for $14M to lose you money. Or you can hire a CEO for $56B to make you wealthy beyond belief. Which do you choose?

No, the vast majority of shareholders didn't support the lawsuit. This suit was brought by a thrash metal drummer named Richard Tornetta, who owns less than 0.0001% of Tesla.
"CEO for $14M to lose you money" - or you know you invest 1 million in somebody who does the same thing. it's a moot point to wonder about whatifs

"the vast majority of shareholders didn't support the lawsuit." enough did and enough saw through the BS. and this isn't something new, this lawsuit was started back in 2018 right after the vote.

for example: https://www.reuters.com/article/uk-tesla-ceo-idUKKBN1GX0C7/
 
"CEO for $14M to lose you money" - or you know you invest 1 million in somebody who does the same thing. it's a moot point to wonder about whatifs
It's not a moot point. It's a real issue that affects not only Tesla, but every shareholder in the USA, of any firm.

Musk took a huge gamble: "if I don't double the company's value, I don't get paid one penny. " He would have worked for free -- and not just for one year, but for an entire *decade*.

"the vast majority of shareholders didn't support the lawsuit." enough did
Be real. One thrash metal drummer supported the lawsuit: Richard Tornetta, who owned an insignificant number of shares. As for the $56B returned to the company -- well, Tesla lost half that immediately, as other shareholders got wind of the ruling.
 
It's not a moot point. It's a real issue that affects not only Tesla, but every shareholder in the USA, of any firm.

Musk took a huge gamble: "if I don't double the company's value, I don't get paid one penny. " He would have worked for free -- and not just for one year, but for an entire *decade*.


Be real. One thrash metal drummer supported the lawsuit: Richard Tornetta, who owned an insignificant number of shares. As for the $56B returned to the company -- well, Tesla lost half that immediately, as other shareholders got wind of the ruling.
the link I gave you shows that it wasn't just that guy. enough shareholders banded together against Musk.

"He would have worked for free -- and not just for one year, but for an entire *decade*." - no he wouldn't. he has Tesla Shares. the main reason for this deal isn't the money, it's for him to get closer to that 25% voting power. it's why so many shady things were done.
 
"He would have worked for free -- and not just for one year, but for an entire *decade*." - no he wouldn't. he has Tesla Shares.
Lol, by this absurd logic, Richard Tornetta -- the thrash metal drummer who brought this suit -- should have also worked for Tesla for free for the last ten years. After all, he owns shares! I won't even mention that conflating "Musk the shareholder" with "Musk the CEO" violates the most basic principle of corporate law: separation of ownership.
 
Lol, by this absurd logic, Richard Tornetta -- the thrash metal drummer who brought this suit -- should have also worked for Tesla for free for the last ten years. After all, he owns shares! I won't even mention that conflating "Musk the shareholder" with "Musk the CEO" violates the most basic principle of corporate law: separation of ownership.
By that logic people should just shut up when they see shady things happening just because "money talks". It makes zero sense.
 
"Elon Musk faces losing his title of richest person in the world after a Delaware judge found in favor of investors"

Big Deal...!
 
If you hate capitalism so much I suggest checking out one of the booming consumer paradises of Cuba, North Korea, or a former Soviet Republic. Here in the US, we're fans of freedom ... some of us, at least.

Capitalism didn't produce billionaires. It produced a booming middle and upper middle class. Neoliberalism gave us billionaires, when Ronald Reagan and Margaret Thatcher completely deregulated markets in the 1980s.
 
Listen closely, Puiu. I'm going to give you a choice. You've invested in a company and you can choose a CEO for $14M to lose you money. Or you can hire a CEO for $56B to make you wealthy beyond belief. Which do you choose?

No, the vast majority of shareholders didn't support the lawsuit. This suit was brought by a thrash metal drummer named Richard Tornetta, who owns less than 0.0001% of Tesla.
So as I clearly stated in my original post… Novo Nordisk profits grew by more than Tesla’s total profits for this year. As in Tesla profits are 3bn, and Novo profits GREW by 4bn… Clearly the 14mn dollar CEO is working just fine…

The fact is that American CEO’s are overpaid to a ludicrous extent, none more so than Musk. Many CEO’s whose companies will not see profits the size of Novo’s for this year throughout their entire lifetimes are paid more than the CEO of Novo. That’s not ‘investing in leadership’, it’s insanity.
 
No, it is a public stock, and the board is beholden to the shareholders by law. If the board breaks that trust to the benefit of the CEO this is against the law. The shareholders sued, and won.
So you're saying that 51% of the shareholders got together and took this action?
 
So you're saying that 51% of the shareholders got together and took this action?
Please remember that shares don’t work like a representative democracy, for OBVIOUS reasons. The board is beholden to ALL shareholders, big and small. If a minority shareholder group believes their interests are being mismanaged they can sue. The obvious case for why this is necessary is in the case of someone holding an absolute majority of the stock, and then simply awarding themselves everything the company has as ‘compensation’ essentially stealing the remainder of the company they didn’t own.
 
Please remember that shares don’t work like a representative democracy, for OBVIOUS reasons. The board is beholden to ALL shareholders, big and small. If a minority shareholder group believes their interests are being mismanaged they can sue. The obvious case for why this is necessary is in the case of someone holding an absolute majority of the stock, and then simply awarding themselves everything the company has as ‘compensation’ essentially stealing the remainder of the company they didn’t own.
You are making up the situation.

If the minority is not happy with the company they should sell their shares and get out. That's how it works. When a minority goes against the interest of the majority through subterfuge of the law, this is called dictatorship, which is the opposite of the much acclaimed democracy.

What is happening can easily be classified as market manipulation, the judge and whoever initiated the actions should be held responsible.
 
You are making up the situation.

If the minority is not happy with the company they should sell their shares and get out. That's how it works. When a minority goes against the interest of the majority through subterfuge of the law, this is called dictatorship, which is the opposite of the much acclaimed democracy.

What is happening can easily be classified as market manipulation, the judge and whoever initiated the actions should be held responsible.
What you are describing is not a democracy, it is dictatorship of the majority… systems have safeguards, and the safeguards are mediated through an independent judiciary… if you don’t like that idea, you don’t like democracy… you’d prefer an authoritarian system run by you and your in group.
 
Just a reality check for the Tesla boys: the CEO of Novo Nordisk, a corporation with five times the 2023 profits of Tesla, received compensation of around 10mio dollars for the year. A year that saw novo profits grow with more than Tesla’s entire profit.

THAT, is the difference between reasonable CEO compensation, and ‘murica, with its absurd CEO worship.

We don't have CEO worship. Americans have been the victim of 50 years of deregulation at the hands of Reaganomics. As long as there are no laws reigning in corporate excess, there's nothing stopping anyone from hoarding as much money as possible.
 
What you are describing is not a democracy, it is dictatorship of the majority… systems have safeguards, and the safeguards are mediated through an independent judiciary… if you don’t like that idea, you don’t like democracy… you’d prefer an authoritarian system run by you and your in group.
Juggling words to go against the people? Why don't you order a judge to also choose who will be the president, governors, etc... after all, in your head, this is democracy, a noisy half dozen subjugating the majority.

Only having an absolute level of alienation to think that the judiciary helps in anything by overturning what the majority decided in a fair and clear way. This only causes legal instability.

Good or bad, the will of the majority must prevail if that is democracy

The judiciary has increasingly shown itself to be an irrational abstraction that people created to call justice, since they are human with beliefs and fears, also susceptible to pressure and corruption, none of them can be called impartial, they do not act on decisions in similar cases. different results depending on who judges. This is one of the places where AI deserves to be employed, only an AI would be fair, based only on logic and data.
 
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