Millionaire who wants to live forever stops taking longevity drug over concerns it sped up aging

Where's religion in my reply? I'm not allowed to at least speculate about what happens to me after I die? Or do you feel uneasy because it sounds less like speculation and more like authoritative truth?
As soon as you mentioned the word "soul", you brought it in... the soul is an imaginary concept from RELIGION.
Our discussions flow organically. If someone wants to speculate about the metaphysical, then nothing except fear-driven anti-"religious" discrimination would stop anyone else from adding to the discussion.
No... they do NOT flow organically... everyone else was talking about something else - YOU brought in religion.
If my brain is transplanted successfully, and that's a huge speculation, then what determines whether it's still me is whether the brain goes through any sort of death or shift during the transplant. Plus, what happens if you transplant it into an artificial shell, like Ghost In The Shell or Robocop?

All these transplant talk is fictitious. They involve physical technologies that are far from ready in our reality. Whereas the metaphysical does not rely on science and tech and cannot be proven or disproven by the physical. If you're incapable of handling metaphysical statements then just ignore the sub-thread and move on.
The point of a site like TECHspot is to talk about various TECH - whether they exist or not.
It is NOT to debate whether religion is correct or not. Faith-based things cannot - by your own admission - be proved or disproved. All they do is stir up trouble... please leave it OUT of this thread.
 
All day every day in an environmental bubble snacking on drugs seems a bit misguided. No one taught the guy the difference between being alive and living.
 
He can... but there are moderators... and they tend to disapprove of stuff like that... but hey, why shouldn't we be debating religion on a tech site?
Half the conversation here is bitching about politics, it's kind of refreshing to see the other faux pas subject raise it's head.
 
hehe... much as politics can be divisive, at least the politicians actually exist...
Even though much of the talking points are fabrication or contrarianism... xD

These things should be sorted out like in the old days, competing leaders choose a champion to fight to the death. No more squabbles.
 
Where's religion in my reply? I'm not allowed to at least speculate about what happens to me after I die? Or do you feel uneasy because it sounds less like speculation and more like authoritative truth?
OK,what you're referring to as "soul", I'll neither confirm or deny. When we refer to an animal's intelligence, the trait of being "self aware", ranks high in our perception of intelligence. Humans are certainly "self aware", in its simplest definition, next down the line are chimpanzees, and so forth. We've, (as far as we know), are the only species with the ability to,"talk to itself". More charitably we refer to it as "the power of reasoning". The ability to reason is at once, a blessing and a curse. "I think. therefore I am", pretty much sums it up. However, It's my belief that the fear of the unknown, and the fear of, "the end", have consumed to much of our existence You know, "oh dear, what am I going to do without me". (Much less what is the rest of the world going to do without me).

One of them Greek dudes theorized that for a society to exist, there has to be an "unprovable reward.", and an "unprovable punishment". Religion, particularly with respect to Christianity, provides that. It's basically a means to control the masses through fear Believing that we have a "soul", is a simplification of accumulated knowledge, and how we train ourselves to act, measured against accepted norms. We constantly "virtue signal" to ourselves about ourselves. The sum of our knowledge, our response to various stimuli, and acting in accordance with our emotions, define us to us as having a "soul". For some, having a "belief system" allows them to use it as a comparator, for their behavior, against their ideals, and the ideals of society as a whole. For better or worse emotions can trump logic. "I fear death, therefore there can be no such thing as true death." That's JMO.
If my brain is transplanted successfully, and that's a huge speculation, then what determines whether it's still me is whether the brain goes through any sort of death or shift during the transplant. Plus, what happens if you transplant it into an artificial shell, like Ghost In The Shell or Robocop?
In today's world, science fiction versus science fact become closer, and the line between them becomes more blurred by the day. I would caution you to recognize when science fiction becomes the basis of your reasoning or belief system. Metaphysical speculation was all the rage in the 60's. Why something as frivolous as, "if a tree falls in the forest does it make a sound", could go on for hours or until the dime bag ran out, whichever came first. Existentialism was all the rage.

Let's say they put you in an artificial being, you likely wouldn't miss pain, but you would surely miss pleasure, the sins of the flesh and all that. Science fiction provides us with various ostensibly "intimate relationships". But bear in mind, they're all, by their very nature, are platonic.

OK, I don't know how old you are, or what you've seen in the way of movies. But, given your train(s) of thought to this topic, I think you should absolutely watch "Free Jack", as it deals with the exact points you've centered on, transfer of consciousness. I have it linked for your convenience. It's got Charlie Sheen's well behaved brother, Emelio Estevez, if you like the Stones, it's got Mick Jagger, and above all, it's got Sir Anthony Hopkins, ("Silence of the Lambs",'Clarice'... that guy) Then there's the original, "Blade Runner", that deals with artificially grown humans, and whether or not they have "souls". (It even had self driving taxis!)

Seriously, all these movies coalesce into a magnificent overview of what;s being discussed in this thread. And they're all "must see TV". guaranteed. Oh, and "Alita: Battle Angel" is another gem. It has human minds in artificial shells throughout .
 
OK,what you're referring to as "soul", I'll neither confirm or deny.
Because of the logical limitations of science, nobody can confirm or deny the existence of a soul using science.
When we refer to an animal's intelligence, the trait of being "self aware", ranks high in our perception of intelligence. Humans are certainly "self aware", in its simplest definition, next down the line are chimpanzees, and so forth. We've, (as far as we know), are the only species with the ability to,"talk to itself". More charitably we refer to it as "the power of reasoning". The ability to reason is at once, a blessing and a curse. "I think. therefore I am", pretty much sums it up.
I've always found it crippling to human society and civilisation when humans prefer to benchmark themselves against the lower animals. Animals don't produce and study Literature. We may overlap with animals in biological processes and complex group behaviours, but what or whom do we overlap with when it's the love for poetry, the search for truth, and the desire to carry out justice?
However, It's my belief that the fear of the unknown, and the fear of, "the end", have consumed to much of our existence You know, "oh dear, what am I going to do without me". (Much less what is the rest of the world going to do without me).
In this era of being alive, I see words and actions from people who appear to have no fear of death, and their actions ruin families, take the lives of others, change the course of history for the worse. Like the Hamas rapists of the Oct 7 attempted genocide, like Putin sitting cosy in his Kremlin palace, like the Muslim militias rampaging through West Asia and sub-Saharan Africa. Like the school shooters and the tide pod eaters.

I'd say having a nominal fear of death is healthy. There are many unhealthy ways to attempt to avoid death, unfortunately, which the article that spawned this discussion thread has written about. The most logical way is to discover who in the metaphysical (or supernatural) realm has control over death -- and find out more about Him, what good He has done for mankind, and worship that being. "Victory Over Death" is something that should be familiar in the culture you grew up in.
One of them Greek dudes theorized that for a society to exist, there has to be an "unprovable reward.", and an "unprovable punishment". Religion, particularly with respect to Christianity, provides that.
What's his name?
It's basically a means to control the masses through fear.
Did the Greek dude conclude this? Or you?
Believing that we have a "soul", is a simplification of accumulated knowledge, and how we train ourselves to act, measured against accepted norms. We constantly "virtue signal" to ourselves about ourselves. The sum of our knowledge, our response to various stimuli, and acting in accordance with our emotions, define us to us as having a "soul".
From the POV of scientific discovery, which needs physical phenomena and repeated experimentation to disprove theories deductively (and prove theories inductively), there's no way to deductively disprove the existence of a soul. Soul here, applying Occam's Razor, is that part of a human being that is other than the physical body with its sinews, organs, and 5 senses.

But there are human experiences that suggest we have more than one foot in the metaphysical - the constant need to discuss Deity, worship Him, sneer at Him, avoid Him, or the deep thoughts and expressions of love, whether agape, eros, philia or storge (the 4 that really matter to most humans), or the ability to manipulate ideas or program them in the non-physical realm of logic with its own strict laws. Do these - Deity, love, logic - simply disappear along with the physical body upon death? Strictly speaking, only someone who has come back from the dead can tell us. We're quite trapped within the circle of earthly reality, blind to whatever's outside, and many have simply decided that outside is irrelevant, or does not exist.

And of course we have religious revelation, the most familiar one around these parts being Christianity, "Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Instead, fear the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell."
For some, having a "belief system" allows them to use it as a comparator, for their behavior, against their ideals, and the ideals of society as a whole. For better or worse emotions can trump logic. "I fear death, therefore there can be no such thing as true death." That's JMO.
Everybody has a belief system, nobody is exempt from this observation. And everybody's belief system is religious, because every belief system has unprovable axioms, necessitating Faith in the validity (truth) of these unprovables.
OK, I don't know how old you are, or what you've seen in the way of movies. But, given your train(s) of thought to this topic, I think you should absolutely watch "Free Jack", as it deals with the exact points you've centered on, transfer of consciousness. I have it linked for your convenience. It's got Charlie Sheen's well behaved brother, Emelio Estevez, if you like the Stones, it's got Mick Jagger, and above all, it's got Sir Anthony Hopkins, ("Silence of the Lambs",'Clarice'... that guy) Then there's the original, "Blade Runner", that deals with artificially grown humans, and whether or not they have "souls". (It even had self driving taxis!)

Seriously, all these movies coalesce into a magnificent overview of what;s being discussed in this thread. And they're all "must see TV". guaranteed. Oh, and "Alita: Battle Angel" is another gem. It has human minds in artificial shells throughout .
Alita is amazing. I should delve into Blade Runner some time, thanks for the recommendations.
 
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The point of a site like TECHspot is to talk about various TECH - whether they exist or not.
It is NOT to debate whether religion is correct or not. Faith-based things cannot - by your own admission - be proved or disproved. All they do is stir up trouble... please leave it OUT of this thread.
What's the difference between tech that ARE fiction* and metaphysical concepts that may or may not be fiction? Since we both concur that the metaphysical is scientifically unprovable, though your stance suggests that it ought to be treated like fiction, or even worse than tech fiction..?

*anti-aging machinery / rays / pills / potions, brain transplant into bio-organic shells, etc.
 
What an amusing discussion!

For those who believe humans have souls, they should reread those 1st chapters of Genesis, The key word being became not obtained a living soul. Man is a soul; rather than man has a soul. Moreover, when the book says so-and-so gave up the ghost, it literally means he simply stopped breathing, permanently.

So much for the Biblical support of life after death. Which is not to say that such does not exist, but merely that the founding books of the Bible do not support it.
 
What's the difference between tech that ARE fiction* and metaphysical concepts that may or may not be fiction?
One is science fiction - which might become non-fiction in the future...
One is religious hogwash that can't be proven or disproven since it relies on faith. Since we are on a Tech site - and are SUPPOSED to be using logic in our comments and arguments - it has no place here.
Since we both concur that the metaphysical is scientifically unprovable, though your stance suggests that it ought to be treated like fiction, or even worse than tech fiction..?
No - because science fiction CAN become reality - the classic example is Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea as he has a submarine (Captain Nemo's Nautilus) long before they were actually invented...
*anti-aging machinery / rays / pills / potions, brain transplant into bio-organic shells, etc.
Those all might actually happen one day... souls, on the other hand, will never exist outside of religion.

What an amusing discussion!

For those who believe humans have souls, they should reread those 1st chapters of Genesis, The key word being became not obtained a living soul. Man is a soul; rather than man has a soul. Moreover, when the book says so-and-so gave up the ghost, it literally means he simply stopped breathing, permanently.

So much for the Biblical support of life after death. Which is not to say that such does not exist, but merely that the founding books of the Bible do not support it.
Never try and use logic in a religious debate - you'll never get satisfaction as your opponent can just say "you're wrong" with no reason (or need) to prove themselves.
 
One is science fiction - which might become non-fiction in the future...
One is religious hogwash that can't be proven or disproven since it relies on faith. Since we are on a Tech site - and are SUPPOSED to be using logic in our comments and arguments - it has no place here.

No - because science fiction CAN become reality - the classic example is Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea as he has a submarine (Captain Nemo's Nautilus) long before they were actually invented...

Those all might actually happen one day... souls, on the other hand, will never exist outside of religion.


Never try and use logic in a religious debate - you'll never get satisfaction as your opponent can just say "you're wrong" with no reason (or need) to prove themselves.
I agree that logic & faith are incompatible as far as arguments go, but my post was based upon simple fact. the words are not disputable; it says what it says. Though I admit, religious people will argue their side anyway.

Religion is irrefutable, & based upon that fact alone, is fiction. Something about irrefutable hypotheses, as I recall.

Another thing, the word translated as soul, is also translated as breath & wind. :D In the Greek, it is pnuema; air.
 
I agree that logic & faith are incompatible as far as arguments go, but my post was based upon simple fact. the words are not disputable; it says what it says. Though I admit, religious people will argue their side anyway.

Religion is irrefutable, & based upon that fact alone, is fiction. Something about irrefutable hypotheses, as I recall.

Another thing, the word translated as soul, is also translated as breath & wind. :D In the Greek, it is pnuema; air.
"Nefesh", which is what many Christians translate as "soul" from Genesis, tends to be translated as breath or wind (breath of God is a common one) nowadays. The thing is, ancient Hebrew had a fairly limited vocabulary compared to modern languages of our time... hard to really know what they meant back then...

But to decide that the "soul" only traces back to Genesis would also be a fallacy... I suspect many eastern religions would have a beef with that... it's like going down a rabbit hole when you argue religion - that's why most non-religious sites (aka Techspot) tend to ban it from discussions...
 
"Nefesh", which is what many Christians translate as "soul" from Genesis, tends to be translated as breath or wind (breath of God is a common one) nowadays. The thing is, ancient Hebrew had a fairly limited vocabulary compared to modern languages of our time... hard to really know what they meant back then...

But to decide that the "soul" only traces back to Genesis would also be a fallacy... I suspect many eastern religions would have a beef with that... it's like going down a rabbit hole when you argue religion - that's why most non-religious sites (aka Techspot) tend to ban it from discussions...
The Hebrews wanted a religion that was VERY different from those of the neighboring nations; hence, 1 God, invisible, cannot be represented by anything on Earth or in heaven, etc. 1st 4, or is it 5 Commandments.

That the concept of a soul as something you have, & the hereafter, are features of most other religions is historic fact. Admittedly, I failed to state that in my previous post. :D
 
No - because science fiction CAN become reality - the classic example is Jules Verne's 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea as he has a submarine (Captain Nemo's Nautilus) long before they were actually invented...
So human brain transplants maybe can cross over into the realm of reality.
As we approach the crossing point, but perhaps find that we just cannot do so, I get it that most will say that science has no frontier, but the lack of progress may point to an insurmountable barrier, that being that transplanting the brain without transplanting the soul (or "ghost" as in Ghost in the Shell) will not give you the same human back, assuming that the bio-organic body can even be animated and interface successfully with the transplanted brain. Wasn't that what the protagonists in this comic were wrestling with, whether they were the same persons as before?

When we deal with fiction like brain transplants, as much as it involves high technology, we bump into the metaphysical really quickly. Staying civil in such discussions is the key, not blanket banning any such discussions even before the start line.

Twins, multiplets, cloning... exact same DNA, nearly the same environmental exposure, yet entirely different persons. One COULD argue that merely the sequence of being born already creates different neuronal networks, different timing and levels of endocrine activity.
 
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The Hebrews wanted a religion that was VERY different from those of the neighboring nations; hence, 1 God, invisible, cannot be represented by anything on Earth or in heaven, etc. 1st 4, or is it 5 Commandments.
To be accurate, the God of the Hebrews wanted them to have a very different religion from the polytheistic Egyptians and Canaanites. And on top of that, to have nothing to do with the child sacrifice and temple prostitution practised by the Canaanites. That's why the Hebrews were sent in as a vanquishing army, taking over the land that is forever theirs even until tomorrow.
 
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