Navy pilots describe encounter with unidentified aerial phenomena in new 60 Minutes segment

brucek

Posts: 863   +1,241
By the guy in the video I linked, stupid. He's an expert.
What exactly do you feel his expert qualifications are? He's certainly not a highly respected naval aviator the way Fravor is. Nor is he an expert on the space, sky and sea sensor systems that are capturing these incidents, the details and output of which in many cases are still classified.

I suppose it's possible the DoD is lying that it has accumulated too many measurements it can't explain to ignore. But the guy in the video doesn't even have the full measurements at all. He doesn't even fully engage with the much more basic topics of how multiple aviators could fail to ID a bird or balloon from visual range, nor be incompetent to describe (unusual) sea surface conditions, nor be fooled into thinking they are being engaged with in mirroring maneuvers at jet speed.

But he is convincing that you can only tell so much from a single grainy video from a single flight system. Of course if that's all there was we wouldn't even be having these discussions in the first place. Nor would we be seeing a former director of national intelligence saying he was concerned about airspace incursions that were probably just birds or balloons.
 

Kirby1

Posts: 118   +185
What exactly do you feel his expert qualifications are? He's certainly not a highly respected naval aviator the way Fravor is. Nor is he an expert on the space, sky and sea sensor systems that are capturing these incidents, the details and output of which in many cases are still classified.

I suppose it's possible the DoD is lying that it has accumulated too many measurements it can't explain to ignore. But the guy in the video doesn't even have the full measurements at all. He doesn't even fully engage with the much more basic topics of how multiple aviators could fail to ID a bird or balloon from visual range, nor be competent to describe (unusual) sea surface conditions, nor be fooled into thinking they are being engaged with in mirroring maneuvers at jet speed.

But he is convincing that you can only tell so much from a single grainy video from a single flight system. Of course if that's all there was we wouldn't even be having these discussions in the first place. Nor would we be seeing a former director of national intelligence saying he was concerned about airspace incursions that were probably just birds or balloons.
It's all in the video. Watch it before you write an essay about how wrong you are. No one is lying.
 

brucek

Posts: 863   +1,241
Could you give me a few choice time markers where he has a good answer to any of the issues I raised? At a minimum he's certainly not admitting to having and disclosing classified data on our full sensor capabilities and readings. He can make the position the DoD is not giving us everything (nor will they ever, nor should they - there's a reason sensor details are closely kept), but it's much harder to explain why the people who do have access to all that can't explain what they have.
 

brucek

Posts: 863   +1,241
I just watched the whole video start to end, supplementing my previous skimming of it and reading of the YouTube comments of what he said. Thanks for wasting 25 minutes of my time, I don't know why you're claiming it's all in there, there's hardly anything beyond the 3 videos themselves.

For starters no one is claiming any "expert" credentials on aviation or military sensor platforms. The interviewer expressly disclaims any qualifications in the topics at the start, and the interviewee presents none other than having taken some civilian flying lessons.

There's a reasonable discussion of the 3 released videos in isolation. I agree with him that on their own they are not definitive proof of anything.

There's a few half-hearted sentences replying to a couple Fravor quotes without seeming to consider their full supporting context (his impeccable qualifications, backed up by other pilots over multiple days, corroborated by the Princeton's powerful radars, and then multiplied by the similar incidents in other locations with other crews and more types of sensor platforms.)

Even without all that, focusing just on Fravor himself, nothing in this video begins to have the credibility Fravor himself does when you hear him talk at length in say the Lex Friedman interview. I would like to see these two go 1:1, I think they are both articulate well-meaning people, and it would be illuminating to see the conversation broadened to all the information, not just the 3 videos.

Then we get to the DoD rollout of all this itself. Mick West's theory is they just got tired of processing FoIA requests. That doesn't explain why if any of their experts has a convincing explanation of how this was a bird or a balloon, why that would be withheld from the original responses or the coordinated public releases now.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,393   +4,724
It's a shame we can't provide feedback on articles. This would get 1 star out of 5 from me. Having this sort of drivel on Techspot just degrades the whole site and undermines the respect that people have for the site in general.
The fact that high-ranking US Government officials are acknowledging that some, emphasis on some, of these are truly unknowns and exhibit behavior beyond the capabilities of the most advanced US Aircraft raises this topic, IMO, well beyond the level of drivel.

By the guy in the video I linked, stupid. He's an expert.
There is a great quote from Richard Feynman - "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts". https://www.azquotes.com/author/4774-Richard_P_Feynman
Anyone can post a You Tube video and claim expertise. Now why would they do that? I think its because they get clicks, and they get paid.

As I see it, any thing that can pull 600 to 700G while accelerating is well beyond any human technology. Getting an occupant of such a craft to land and say "Take me to your leader" is a pipe dream, IMO. To them, paraphrasing G'Kar from TV Series Babylon 5, humans are likely like ants are to humans.

As someone who has been interested in the phenomenon for some time, it is astonishing that the US Government is finally acknowledging the phenomenon. There have been several releases in the past few years from the US Government where they have admitted, "We do not know what they are but they exist."

If anyone cares to research further https://www.livescience.com/cia-declassified-ufo-archives.html#:~:text=The 'Black Vault' documents cover everything from mysterious,of alleged UFO sightings were declassified in 2020.
https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/ufo/
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 883   +1,677
We are finally moving away from the false terrorism boogieman and to the false UFO/ET one.

Control via constant fear is tiresome, but at the very least, I will finally see a “real” UFO.
 

m3tavision

Posts: 678   +443
By the guy in the video I linked, stupid. He's an expert.

That video you linked is a big hoax, with two deniers projecting what they think it might be... instead of what the Military says it wasn't... (man made)

He claims the object in the video is NOT moving (barely moving) and yet, he is totally unware of the distance and angle of attack, that the fighter jet is taking, while the fighter jet's software is locked on to the MOVING TARGET... as they circle their Jet in a tight bank trying to close on the target.... and this dude says the object was possibly 100 miles away..?

Did thee two bloggers even listen to the Pilots de-brief..?

 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,393   +4,724
We are finally moving away from the false terrorism boogieman and to the false UFO/ET one.

Control via constant fear is tiresome, but at the very least, I will finally see a “real” UFO.
After decades of the US Government denying the existence of UFOs/UAP and now acknowledging them as real, I think you have the direction of the trend toward a false UFO/ET one (your words) reversed. As I see it, denial of the existence of UFOs/UAP was the epitome of a "false UFO/ET one" as the government, itself, was paranoid about how the public would react to their confirmation of the existence of UFOs/UAP.
 

NeoMorpheus

Posts: 883   +1,677
After decades of the US Government denying the existence of UFOs/UAP and now acknowledging them as real, I think you have the direction of the trend toward a false UFO/ET one (your words) reversed. As I see it, denial of the existence of UFOs/UAP was the epitome of a "false UFO/ET one" as the government, itself, was paranoid about how the public would react to their confirmation of the existence of UFOs/UAP.
My comment goes way deeper than what it seems that you understood on the two subjects mentioned.
 

Kirby1

Posts: 118   +185
The fact that high-ranking US Government officials are acknowledging that some, emphasis on some, of these are truly unknowns and exhibit behavior beyond the capabilities of the most advanced US Aircraft raises this topic, IMO, well beyond the level of drivel.


There is a great quote from Richard Feynman - "Science is the belief in the ignorance of experts". https://www.azquotes.com/author/4774-Richard_P_Feynman
Anyone can post a You Tube video and claim expertise. Now why would they do that? I think its because they get clicks, and they get paid.

As I see it, any thing that can pull 600 to 700G while accelerating is well beyond any human technology. Getting an occupant of such a craft to land and say "Take me to your leader" is a pipe dream, IMO. To them, paraphrasing G'Kar from TV Series Babylon 5, humans are likely like ants are to humans.

As someone who has been interested in the phenomenon for some time, it is astonishing that the US Government is finally acknowledging the phenomenon. There have been several releases in the past few years from the US Government where they have admitted, "We do not know what they are but they exist."

If anyone cares to research further https://www.livescience.com/cia-declassified-ufo-archives.html#:~:text=The 'Black Vault' documents cover everything from mysterious,of alleged UFO sightings were declassified in 2020.
https://www.nsa.gov/news-features/declassified-documents/ufo/
Most likely there is other life out there in the universe, but to think they come to earth to just fly around secretively is beyond ridiculous. The video I linked is extremely convincing and anyone with an open mind would be hard pressed to deny it's validity. The only people who would deny it either; didn't watch it, or have invested too much time and energy into conspiracy theories to change their opinion in the face of evidence.

Anyone with a basic understanding of geometry can follow what is being explained in the video and easily understand that these are not aliens or anything like that, just normal objects.
 

Kirby1

Posts: 118   +185
What exactly do you feel his expert qualifications are?
If you actually watched the video, you would know the answer to that.

While I'm usually against telling anyone to watch a youtube video as a form of evidence, in no small part because that's what a lot of you conspiracy nuts do, in this case since the things in question are videos themselves, a well made video on the subject is appropriate.
 

Kirby1

Posts: 118   +185
It's pretty sad that so many people put real effort into convincing themselves that there is some big lie, and the way the click-bait fueled media cycle operates it's hardly surprising. The only redeeming aspect of it is that I tend to believe that the loudest people on the internet are also the dumbest.

And I'm sure now someone will say, "gee look at all your comments" without realizing that I am simply responding to people that quoted me, and not even all of them, aside from this comment and my original one.

You people need education.


Any reasonable person with a basic understanding of physics knows that, not only would it be insane to think aliens could make it to earth so casually as to have hundreds of these small crafts flying around, evading cameras most of the time... but ask yourself, why would they? Are they just tourists and there is a thriving alien tourism industry that manages to evade detection aside from these occasional long angle camera shots? Sounds pretty stupid. Are they here to enact some form of control over our population? If so, why would they need to fly around all the time in secret crafts? Sounds stupid again.

What doesn't sound stupid is that the government has to disclose these things due to the freedom of information act and other laws like it, and sometimes they gather footage that they don't take the time to fully analyze and thus it's left as a mystery but that doesn't mean it's anything special. What's more likely, that sometimes when flying you can see something from so far away that it's hard to identify and the government doesn't always care enough to solve every video footage mystery... or aliens?

Don't let yourself be so stupid.
 
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brucek

Posts: 863   +1,241
Anyone with a basic understanding of geometry can follow what is being explained in the video

So you believe the core issue here is none of the multiple aviators involved; nor the radar operators; nor the intelligence analysts tasked with analyzing the full suite of satellite, awacs, fighter pilot, sub sonar, and ocean sonar picket signals; nor any other expert available to the pentagon, or the former DNI, or President Obama (who also yesterday repeated that there are things they can't explain); all didn't have access to this "basic understanding of geometry"?

You're continuing to ignore the full suite of data that is trying to be understood. You are also the person bringing up aliens.

While I personally would be surprised if the ultimate answer was aliens, that does not change the fact the pentagon is acknowledging that its full arsenal of sensor systems including simultaneous human pilot eyeball reports from 2/4 different locations (much harder to fool multiple points of reference at once) are reporting seeing/sensing large, fast, agile objects in the vicinity of aircraft carrier groups. That's a legitimate national security problem that deserves as much R&D as it takes to resolve it without letting the issue get deprioritized because people are afraid to touch anything that might get them tarred with alien conspiracy nut.
 
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captaincranky

Posts: 17,205   +5,959
It's a shame we can't provide feedback on articles. This would get 1 star out of 5 from me. Having this sort of drivel on Techspot just degrades the whole site and undermines the respect that people have for the site in general.
Ya know, it's always the low post count noobs that start this crap about "how this topic shouldn't be on a site like Techspot". I consider them, "amateur editors, and wannabe site operators".

For the sake of your mental health, I would suggest simply mot clicking on the topic

You have my heartfelt sympathies, since you can't seem to find enough of your own brand of drivel.

Such as, "Whaa, boo hoo, I can't get a video card, because of those damned miners". There's a whole support group for you here, with the same ailment.

Or, "Intel bad, AMD good".

How about, "M$ is putting news dingles on the next Windows update". That should slake you thirst for "real computer-centric content".

But wait, there's more...Musk will likely say something so stupid and outrageous soon, which will have legions of his admirers here, with mouths agape,in awe at his, "brilliance"
 
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m3tavision

Posts: 678   +443
Most likely there is other life out there in the universe, but to think they come to earth to just fly around secretively is beyond ridiculous. The video I linked is extremely convincing and anyone with an open mind would be hard pressed to deny it's validity. The only people who would deny it either; didn't watch it, or have invested too much time and energy into conspiracy theories to change their opinion in the face of evidence.

Anyone with a basic understanding of geometry can follow what is being explained in the video and easily understand that these are not aliens or anything like that, just normal objects.

We are still using fuel... as a means of propulsion kid.

When we are able to use gravity as propulsion, (in about another 600-1000 years, going to the moon, will be a like going on a date.)


Your assumptions are laughable, because OUR data tells us these things are not from Earth. But elsewhere... which is logical, seeing their propulsion and maneuvers, etc. and knowing that we have ONLY seen life on earth and have never seen 10 ^100 planets out there.

Humans do not posses the ability to travel at 10,000 MPH, then instantly stop and hover, before descending into the ocean...!


Those two guys are not experts, you simply do not understand the sophistication of US military equipment.
 

ziffel66

Posts: 121   +200
If this is human tech and we can go from 0 to 80,000 ft drop in seconds then as species we have gone further than the moon.
But if everything is either "fake" as some call it or just human tech. Why is that NASAs own cameras have caught stuff that can't be explained properly or that in '88/'89, that during a space shuttle mission the actual recorded audio was, there is a alien spacecraft trailing us. As those pilots are very well trained and if it was Russia, China or any other foreign country you wouldn't say alien spacecraft unless that is exactly what you saw. Also why would you call it that us unless you have seen or know about it. Think about that.
Fine. you explain to me then how other life forms attained FTL travel tech.

As with religion, you'd have to use 'mysterious ways' to explain something that defies the laws of physics.
 

texasrattler

Posts: 1,192   +561
Fine. you explain to me then how other life forms attained FTL travel tech.

As with religion, you'd have to use 'mysterious ways' to explain something that defies the laws of physics.
So you want someone explain to you how another species gained FTL travel that we don't have. They could simply be a old species that been around for a longtime or maybe another species passed tech n knowledge on to them.
Or maybe they they are from the distant future.
Point is who knows. You can choose to believe or don't. Same as with God, you believe or don't.

Maybe things aren't as mysterious as people think. Sometimes the truth is right in front of you but you choose not to see or believe.