Pavel Durov charged in France for failure to moderate illegal content on Telegram

[nitebird]

Privacy is not all or nothing. If you are at home, you are entitled to protection from police coming in and randomly searching. But if they have probable cause - someone hearing cries for help from your home - police can use force to enter. This doesn't change if you transfer ownership of your home to a "platform".

Analogy aside, it's one thing if France wanted access to the message content of all users, and another if France has probably cause for a user and a warrant to search.

 

[Mihai S]

Bloomburg is what you linked to LOL. If you want the truth you will NEVER EVER get it from mainstream affiliated sources . The mainstream media are all 100% pro Macron .

What's this got to do with Macron???

Either way, I was quoting a paragraph relaying the French prosecutor's statement on this case.

 

[corvard]

Before anyone defending privacy and all that, think for one second the sheer amount of forbidden content being shared, the amount of people being doxed on there, and the crime related stuff (selling) that happens. Again that platform needs moderation - and it is under no circumstances that a platform with 40 million of users can get away with zero to none moderation.

I get it - it's one of the few apps that uphold privacy, but nothing you ever communicate over a digital line, is ever private. Live with it.

You can report illegal content on Telegram, and it will be removed.

 

[Endymio]

No, it’s like suing a car salesman for not disclosing the owner of a car used for a hit & run, after being served a warrant. ... Telegram refuses to comply with court warrants.

Nonsense. The primary of France's charges against Durov are that, by operating Telegram, he is "complicit" in every crime someone may commit through it. They're also accusing him of using "unregistered" cryptography services. From their official press release:

- Complicity - Administration of an online platform to enable anillicit transaction by an organized gang
- Complicity - Fraud by an organized gang,- Criminal association with a view to committing a crime
- Complicity - Acquisition, transport, possession, offer or transfer of narcotics,
- Complicity - Dissemination, offer or provision by an organized gang of an image of a minor of a pornographic nature,
- Complicity - Offer, transfer or provision without legitimate reason of equipment, an instrument, a program or data designed or adapted for an attack and access to the operation of an automated data processing system,
- Laundering of crimes or offences in an organised gang
- Provision of cryptology services aimed at ensuring confidentiality functions without a compliant declaration
- Provision of a means of cryptology not exclusively ensuring authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration
- Importation of a means of cryptology not exclusively ensuring authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration.

Way down the list, they're also accusing Durov of "refusing to communication the information necessary" for France to intercept communications. In other words: they want his decryption keys, so they can read any and all messages on Telegram.

 

[wiyosaya]

Notice that no other tech CEOs have arrest warrants, depsite their platforms being used in the same way? How about the utility companies, they are abetting the same crimes, why are they not arrested?

We'll see how well good ole' Musk stands up in Brazil - especially since his businesses are being squeezed at multiple stress points.

This is politically motivated, full stop. Just like the arrest of people who speak against macron. But its the West, so it must be OK, right?

You say that without proof and assume you are correct. Maybe you are correct and maybe you are not. IMO, without that proof, your opinion is conspiracy theory - not unlike the allegations of massive voter fraud in the US.

And NO, use of government agencies for political vendettas is never OK, no matter who or what says it is, in any form of government as I see it.

 

[Thanthan]

Nonsense. The primary of France's charges against Durov are that, by operating Telegram, he is "complicit" in every crime someone may commit through it. They're also accusing him of using "unregistered" cryptography services. From their official press release:

- Complicity - Administration of an online platform to enable anillicit transaction by an organized gang
- Complicity - Fraud by an organized gang,- Criminal association with a view to committing a crime
- Complicity - Acquisition, transport, possession, offer or transfer of narcotics,
- Complicity - Dissemination, offer or provision by an organized gang of an image of a minor of a pornographic nature,
- Complicity - Offer, transfer or provision without legitimate reason of equipment, an instrument, a program or data designed or adapted for an attack and access to the operation of an automated data processing system,
- Laundering of crimes or offences in an organised gang
- Provision of cryptology services aimed at ensuring confidentiality functions without a compliant declaration
- Provision of a means of cryptology not exclusively ensuring authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration
- Importation of a means of cryptology not exclusively ensuring authentication or integrity control functions without prior declaration.

Way down the list, they're also accusing Durov of "refusing to communication the information necessary" for France to intercept communications. In other words: they want his decryption keys, so they can read any and all messages on Telegram.

Most information on Telegram is not end-to-end encrypted, so I dont believe this to be the actual issue. Noone is going after Signal, or German email provider Tuta, or anyone else for using end to end encryption, so that can’t really be the the problem with telegram. Similarly no one in France is going after no logs VPN’s or the Tor browser or whatever. So I simply don’t believe you’re right that this is an issue of France wanting a backdoor to communications. The issue left over is that Telegram refuses to comply with search warrants and social network moderation laws requiring to monitor and take down illegal content. The latter part only applies to non E2E encrypted content, as Telegram obviously can’t read E2E content and thus can’t moderate it, but again, most content, even illegal content, on Telegram is not E2E.

 

[Endymio]

Most information on Telegram is not end-to-end encrypted, so I dont believe this to be the actual issue.

It's not the "most" that France -- and the US wants. It's the encrypted parts they care about. If you're using Telegram to share Mom's bundt cake recipe, you normally don't encrypt it.

Noone is going after Signal, or German email provider Tuta, or anyone else for using end to end encryption...Similarly no one in France is going after no logs VPN’s or the Tor browser

Unless Signal and Tuta already complied. Durov himself -- as well as a VP of Telegram -- have stated western authorities made multiple requests for Telegram to insert a backdoor to allow them to decrypt messages at will.

As for "no log VPNs", they do nothing whatsoever to thwart monitoring by a state-level actor, nor can one simply "arrest" an entire decentralized, open-source project like Tor.