Telegram will provide authorities with IP addresses, phone numbers of suspects

[Alfonso Maruccia]

What just happened? After spending a few days behind bars, Pavel Durov is now willing to adopt a more collaborative approach with Western authorities. Telegram's CEO has announced significant changes to how the service will handle content moderation and investigations related to crime.

Durov recently confirmed that Telegram has updated its terms of service, making it much harder for criminals using the platform. The new policy includes significant changes regarding collaboration with "law enforcement authorities," who will now have easier access to crucial data useful for identifying suspects.

If a valid order regarding a criminal suspect is issued by the relevant judicial authorities, the revised TOS state that Telegram will first perform its own "legal analysis" of the order. The company may, and likely will, disclose a user's IP address and phone number to authorities, and a quarterly transparency report will be issued detailing all the data shared with judges and investigators.

Before Durov announced the change, Telegram's TOS indicated the company's willingness to cooperate with authorities in identifying "terror suspects," but nothing more. Now, the TOS contain much clearer language indicating that Telegram no longer wants to be considered a safe harbor for criminals.

Durov was arrested by French authorities in August for allegedly failing to implement an adequate moderation policy against criminal activities on the platform. Durov was later released on bail after paying €5 million but is still required to remain in France until the charges are resolved.

In his latest post, the Russian billionaire said Telegram has assigned a team of moderators to address the crime-related issues on the platform. These moderators, aided by unspecified AI algorithms and tools, have been searching for illegal content over the "last few weeks." Telegram users are also encouraged to report any unlawful behavior occurring on the service.

Durov stated that "99.999 percent" of Telegram users have nothing to do with criminal activities, while the remaining 0.001 percent is tarnishing the platform's image.

According to a recent analysis published after the arrest of the 39-year-old entrepreneur, Telegram is particularly popular among US white supremacists, as well as among weapon and drug dealers, and even terrorist organizations like Hamas. The platform still offers a way to engage in end-to-end encrypted secret chat rooms, although this is not the default method for traditional users accessing the service.

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Telegram will provide authorities with IP addresses, phone numbers of suspects

 

[scavengerspc]

Well, good for them. Maybe breaking the law will continue to be a crime. ALL crimes.
But I do hope they provide the info only when a warrant is issued, because this could be abused if
they just start whipping out information with little cause.

 

[Win7user]

I'm sure this will help their (Telegram) bottom line.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

You didnt want.....PRIVACY, did you, random citizen? Didnt you know that Privacy....is BAD? Criminals use it! You're not a criminal, are you? You don't really WANT privacy, do you?

Now be a good little sla.....citizen, and hand over all your activity for your moral superiors to comb over to prevent thoughtcrimes and behavior we have labeled as "bad" using unelected unrestrained boards of just the worst people on earth.

Well, good for them. Maybe breaking the law will continue to be a crime. ALL crimes.
But I do hope they provide the info only when a warrant is issued, because this could be abused if
they just start whipping out information with little cause.

I guess you've missed the last 20 years of governments abusing their positions with secret courts and gag warrants for EVERYONE's information, which was the whole reason telegram refused to comply in the first place? Because ALL that data now goes to the government.

 

[Plutoisaplanet]

Honestly, people who claim that Telegram should be shut down should remember that 4chan has been run for 20 years in the US and barely anything is moderated there too. It is also known for a subset of its nefarious users and and the CEO is not being arrested lol. There's not much different.

 

[brucek]

I have no problem with bona fide search warrants against specific individuals, reviewed and approved by a judge, based on a showing of probable cause of a specific crime. That's a reasonable balance that has been worked out over decades and centuries.

My problem is with warrantless and/or dragnet searches, like "give me the phone number of everyone who has ever used the word 'pot' in a text" (or worse, "just hand them all over and we'll do the searching & filtering, you can trust us"). Hopefully, this outcome is more like the former than the latter.

There's a jurisdictional issue I'm not clear on how it works. If playing more than two hours of video games a week is illegal in China, can a Chinese court get a warrant against me, a US citizen, based on accurate probable cause that I have played games for more than two hours (here in the US.) How would they, or Telegram, know which laws/jurisdictions applied, especially if they just have a user handle to start with?

 

[ccccn]

You didnt want.....PRIVACY, did you, random citizen? Didnt you know that Privacy....is BAD? Criminals use it! You're not a criminal, are you? You don't really WANT privacy, do you?

Now be a good little sla.....citizen, and hand over all your activity for your moral superiors to comb over to prevent thoughtcrimes and behavior we have labeled as "bad" using unelected unrestrained boards of just the worst people on earth.
I guess you've missed the last 20 years of governments abusing their positions with secret courts and gag warrants for EVERYONE's information, which was the whole reason telegram refused to comply in the first place? Because ALL that data now goes to the government.

BRAVO , you nailed it .

 

[ccccn]

Honestly, people who claim that Telegram should be shut down should remember that 4chan has been run for 20 years in the US and barely anything is moderated there too. It is also known for a subset of its nefarious users and and the CEO is not being arrested lol. There's not much different.

Nefarious users = Anybody or anything that doesn't tow the government political narrative .

 

[Art C]

The real problem is that the First Amendment is being circumvented using the words "misinformation" and "disinformation" to criminalize the writing and speaking of truths that The Party finds inconvenient. They are creating a larger need for anonymous communication.

 

[Vanderlinde]

Honestly, people who claim that Telegram should be shut down should remember that 4chan has been run for 20 years in the US and barely anything is moderated there too. It is also known for a subset of its nefarious users and and the CEO is not being arrested lol. There's not much different.

Do they publish CP content? Are active criminal groups operating through the use of 4Chan? Are terrorists active or right (extreme) wing party's sharing content that's way over the line there? Are people doxed on 4Chan?

They have tried for so long to get a grip on such groups, that eventually they arrested and wanted to held the owner responsible for hosting and providing all that bullshit on their platform.

You want a app in the EU or US? You better deal with the data laws that apply. People need to understand as long as there is terrorism, CP and all that disgusting **** out there nothing really is safe from encryption.

Criminals are just as dumb for even buying criminal proof phone's these days thinking police won't get a grip.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Do they publish CP content? Are active criminal groups operating through the use of 4Chan? Are terrorists active or right (extreme) wing party's sharing content that's way over the line there? Are people doxed on 4Chan?

They have tried for so long to get a grip on such groups, that eventually they arrested and wanted to held the owner responsible for hosting and providing all that bullshit on their platform.

You want a app in the EU or US? You better deal with the data laws that apply. People need to understand as long as there is terrorism, CP and all that disgusting **** out there nothing really is safe from encryption.

Criminals are just as dumb for even buying criminal proof phone's these days thinking police won't get a grip.

All that can be found on 4chan. And other platforms as well. YouTube had a CP issue for YEARS.

Your moral pearl clutching about "muh criminals, muh right wingers" betrays your willingness to trade in your privacy for perceived security, ensuring you attain neither. You've bought into the propaganda hook, line, and sinker, trading away your privacy to protect yourself from the boogeyman while the government steps in and does everything horrible to you physically and mentally possible while taking away any right you have to say "no".

But hey, you got to stop....well nothing, the terrorists will still strike and the government will meme "he was on our radar" to the media while arresting you for wrongthink. But you get to feel nice I guess?

 

[Vanderlinde]

Dude,

I work in the internet business for 15 years. After a "incident" with police over a charge that was pressed towards me over a tweet (the case got dropped later) I understood that, pretty much ALL digital communication, esp if your in USA/EU, is, can be tracked.

Even the dutch police on their own website states that with a warrant they are able to track you live, your conversations, even listen to active video or voice calls. I live for quite some years that privacy DOES NOT EXIST and trying to battle it is a meaningless thing.

In my case, I was followed, for months, because they could not find me, and used my cellphone (meta) data. They knew exactly every footstep I was making. Now instead of reaching out to me in person, they did what they had todo. And they contacted not me but a colleague of me in who they explained in detail my every step.

Even tho I filed a complaint, privacy does not exist.

Criminals, those who put the worst possible **** out there, will continue to abuse it. It's just a fact, bad people always ruin it for good people. So, it's simple. Don't publish or send out information about you - I live with the idea that we're being fooled anyways.

The first cellphone came with 64 bits. Before it even was introduced france for example DEMANDED the encryption to be lowered to 48 to 40 bits. Nobody was told. Only not so long ago the public finally learned about how the situation really was.

Any large app such as IG, Whatsapp, Telegram, Imessage all that stuff, do have backdoors in events where police can get in. Read the TOS of those respected company's. If they even refuse they could not hold market in US or EU. In this case both are no better then China or Russia.

Telegram is coerced - it's simple as that. If you don't offer a way for us to start acting then we will either hold you accountable or ban your app completely from the surface. They had no other choice. It's the "laws" here.

Same as with these criminal phones with encryption. People are just DUMB to even think encryption would last forever. They just coerce the server(s), snatch the keys and are able to watch. SkyEcc was a perfect example of that. They took over the servers, and where reading for months LIVE.

it was a GOLDMINE of data for so many criminal groups. as a individual, I live with the idea that someone is always able to read or listen to what I publish. Since google has tools that converts audio into text and back, why not the ISP's who run such sophisticated software to mass listen to millions of folks who make calls every day.

train a AI to pluck certain words, aspects or lines and you got interesting data.

Same as for VPN's - they can be coerced. The billions being spend on "supercomputers" is not just for running weather simulations but to crack encryption(s). Quantum computing is a real danger since it's capable when strong enough to crack pretty much the strongest thing out there in matter of minutes. The only thing genuine safe would simply not be communicating over a digital line to be fair.

I've paid significant amount(s) of money to have my servers, hardened in regards of security. The only way in would be a coerced way with a warrant. Nothing is safe as long as your under the wing of certain countries, digital ACTS and whatever.

 

[scavengerspc]

You didnt want.....PRIVACY, did you, random citizen? Didnt you know that Privacy....is BAD? Criminals use it! You're not a criminal, are you? You don't really WANT privacy, do you?

Now be a good little sla.....citizen, and hand over all your activity for your moral superiors to comb over to prevent thoughtcrimes and behavior we have labeled as "bad" using unelected unrestrained boards of just the worst people on earth.
I guess you've missed the last 20 years of governments abusing their positions with secret courts and gag warrants for EVERYONE's information, which was the whole reason telegram refused to comply in the first place? Because ALL that data now goes to the government.

Sorry brother. I subscribe to the notion that if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to fear.
Few things raise suspicion like trying to hide.

 

[monkeylove]

Well, good for them. Maybe breaking the law will continue to be a crime. ALL crimes.
But I do hope they provide the info only when a warrant is issued, because this could be abused if
they just start whipping out information with little cause.

Since governments can turn various activities into crime, then activists won't like this.

 

[AlexIL]

Sorry brother. I subscribe to the notion that if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to fear.
Few things raise suspicion like trying to hide.

Exactly the position of Soviet people during purges of 1930s in Soviet Union. Millions of people vanished thanks to a good standing citizens thinking the same way. Until they vanished too.

Privacy is not a right. It is essential part of democratic society. Once privacy is gone then Communism stars as in that system there are zero privacy for whatever matter and in it's pure form you can't decide even whom to marry or rise your own children. Sounds like Slavery? It is. Disguised by beautiful words. It's never been about hiding anything it's about controlling everything. The one who controls the flow of information controls the world.

 

[Arthurik_jan]

Sorry brother. I subscribe to the notion that if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to fear.
Few things raise suspicion like trying to hide.

Yeah, that is understandable. But look at how governments function. E.g., like in the UK, they can decide that something as harmless as putting what you think of the immigration situation out there on the social networks is hatespeech and start jailing people who break this law and in essence become criminals.

Gotta be really careful there and really ask, why would a government target Telegram specifically? Because just like some mentioned here YouTube not only had moderation problems, it still does. There's CP and regular P on it, if you go digging. An even worse case is Kik, the chat app. That is a sh** show I swear. You can listen to an episode about on the Darknet Diaries podcast by Jack Rhysider. Nothing has been being done there for YEARS but Telegram taking a vocal stance for privacy get made into an example.

That's hypocricy and something stinks, tbh.

 

[scavengerspc]

Since governments can turn various activities into crime, then activists won't like this.

Well ok, I get you there, but we are still in a strong position to keep those people away from us with our vote. If we put people in office that are obviously leaning towards that kind of governance then we deserve what we get. You know the old adage, if they tell you who they are, believe them.

Exactly the position of Soviet people during purges of 1930s in Soviet Union.

Ok, I'm pretty confident that those people had no choice.
Their elections were frauds and still are to this day. Who really believes a 90%+ election win? President Reagan won 49 states in 1984 and that only amounted to 58% of the vote.

Nothing has been being done there for YEARS but Telegram taking a vocal stance for privacy get made into an example.

Before this goes further, may I ask if you are aware of the people that they were protecting in the name of privacy? To say they are bad people only scratches the surface.
We aren't talking about hackers or people selling fake Hostess Twinkies here.
They are some damn dangerous people.

So let me say guys, I'm not in favor of being spied on for targeted ads and the like.
And I know everyone seems to have their own unsubstantiated horror story.
But again, some of those people Telegram were protecting were truly the sewage of
society. We need every tool at our disposal to catch them.

 

[Arthurik_jan]

Well ok, I get you there, but we are still in a strong position to keep those people away from us with our vote. If we put people in office that are obviously leaning towards that kind of governance then we deserve what we get. You know the old adage, if they tell you who they are, believe them.

Ok, I'm pretty confident that those people had no choice.
Their elections were frauds and still are to this day. Who really believes a 90%+ election win? President Reagan won 49 states in 1984 and that only amounted to 58% of the vote.

Before this goes further, may I ask if you are aware of the people that they were protecting in the name of privacy? To say they are bad people only scratches the surface.
We aren't talking about hackers or people selling fake Hostess Twinkies here.
They are some damn dangerous people.

So let me say guys, I'm not in favor of being spied on for targeted ads and the like.
And I know everyone seems to have their own unsubstantiated horror story.
But again, some of those people Telegram were protecting were truly the sewage of
society. We need every tool at our disposal to catch them.

I get where you are coming from. It's a messy business and always will be. Had governments not repeatedly abused their power, it would be a different story altogether.

I've experienced first hand what happens when the government starts putting people behind bars left and right without paying attention to nuance. Lost my father for almost 6 years when I needed him most because of this.

And I don't agree with Telegram protecting the scum of the earth, so I definitely will look into it and try and see to what extent was it focused on protecting the criminals instead of just simply advocating for privacy. But I don't have high hopes of having that question answered.

 

[Phylop]

Telegram is not a secure messaging service and hasn't been for a very long time, if ever. The most accessible secure alternative is Signal.

 

[Arthurik_jan]

I guess it goes to show that because we don't live in a perfect world, there will always be hot topics like this and thank goodness for that.

 

[hahahanoobs]

"reputation as a safe haven for criminals"

Hmmm... Just like Tor....

 

[JamesBlond]

So he finally became a puppet for the one world order

 

[fazy shah]

Correction this is not for criminals but specifically for israel as their latest data leaked at telegram and they asked them to stop it and provide details so their terrorism is not disclosed to the world.

 

[Vanderlinde]

Sorry brother. I subscribe to the notion that if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to fear.
Few things raise suspicion like trying to hide.

Oh I understand, the value of privacy etc, but it's the opposite for the last 20 years to be fair.

But as of today, I live with, anything send through digital or even analog, can be monitored by a third party.

 

[TempleOrion]

Sorry brother. I subscribe to the notion that if you are not a criminal, you have nothing to fear.
Few things raise suspicion like trying to hide.

Absolutely. But the "free speech above all else" fanatics, especially in the demented jungle of certain US forums, love to protect child molesters, drug traffickers and other assorted scum of the earth. It's who they associate and identify with, so it's no wonder really LOL