PlayStation 4 is destroying the Xbox One in Amazon customer poll

[captaincranky]

"Hiding behind anonymity AND not staying on topic. Get lost buddy!"

Peter XXXX

Unlike you buddy, I will never need to hide behind ANY weapon. You think your Government or mine can do what?

Truth, not spook truth really hurts yes?

Well then Pete, as has already been stated, this is absolutely not the place for this.

This thread is about console gaming boxes, about as frivolous a topic as you can find here at TS, or anyplace else. (Of course the, "or anyplace else" is me editorializing as I am both wont and very prone to do).

In a larger sense, citizens of a government do not necessarily represent the opinions of, or condone all of that government's actions. If we did, we wouldn't even need the two stinking, miserable excuses for, "choices?"we have for political "parties". (And that has come to mean, "parties" in the common everyday sense of the word).

In any event, allegedly the USA is cut from British cloth. So, you'd think we'd be getting along better, wouldn't you?

This PRISM issue would be a non issue, if every douche in the world, (and I'll include myself if it will make you happy), didn't absolutely feel that they have the inalienable right to run their yaps incessantly on the web or a stinking cell phone.

In any event, we could speculate that MI-6 is using the same tactics, but hasn't yet been caught at it. And what the heck, when you come right down to it, the British Empire wasn't always as nice to their subjects as they could have been.

Soooo, why don't you hold those fiery, rhetorical, verily even "revolutionary" thoughts of yours, and vent them here: https://www.techspot.com/community/...ive-up-on-online-privacy.193253/#post-1316726

(And if you don't think you're going to make it there before pissing all these grand concepts away, try crossing your legs. That has helped me on numerous occasions).

 

[Guest]

Thanks for that captaincranky, have read through your post. Responded toM4a4! Also aware that this thread is on Xbone & PS4.

You se though, all the features added to Xbone and the Prism revelations are intricably linked. To say they are not, or potray the console as being benigh is untruthfull and a disservice to all the other gamers out there. SO M$ respond by saying your country is not getting it at launch. Good, let themkeep it for ever. Here in the UK, their is a seriuos groundswell rising against the Prism 9 for being wankers. Anybody, in my opinion who buys M$ Xbone is a fool. No climb-down will do; they ( Prism 9 ) have shat on us all forever, they can all ****-off and die. My opinion.

You said - ........... "This PRISM issue would be a non issue......,"

This is the problem captaincranky, you are saying that........., its all ok?
Sorry dude, but with that statement, you are part of the problem.
No NO NO, never in my name.

Thanks for the link to other article, will book mark and come back another day.

 

[SirGCal]

How so?

1) Steam is not a console that you pay $500 for.

1) Not exactly true... Well for long anyhow. The 'Steam Box' is right around the corner. A Box specifically setup to run Steam games. Someone like me who has over 300+ steam titles (not a single one of which I paid more then $20 for, all of them on the specials or bundles deals, MOST under $5), it's perfect. It's also UPGRADABLE!

First flavor starts right at $499, or will. It will come in various flavors. Here's a few links:

It is being made by Valve themselves...

http://www.ign.com/wikis/steam/Steam_Box
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/valve-steam-box-release-date-news-and-features-1127072

Who knows how good it will be; but it supposedly is coming as an option.

 

[m4a4]

How so?

1) Steam is not a console that you pay $500 for.

1) Not exactly true... Well for long anyhow. The 'Steam Box' is right around the corner. A Box specifically setup to run Steam games. Someone like me who has over 300+ steam titles (not a single one of which I paid more then $20 for, all of them on the specials or bundles deals, MOST under $5), it's perfect. It's also UPGRADABLE!

First flavor starts right at $499, or will. It will come in various flavors. Here's a few links:

It is being made by Valve themselves...

http://www.ign.com/wikis/steam/Steam_Box
http://www.techradar.com/us/news/gaming/valve-steam-box-release-date-news-and-features-1127072

Who knows how good it will be; but it supposedly is coming as an option.

It will act like a PC, not a console. That will be it's limitation. Games will not be optimized for it...

 

[SirGCal]

It will act like a PC, not a console. That will be it's limitation. Games will not be optimized for it...

Both new consoles use an AMD APU (CPU/GPU combo) of which is roughly an AMD 7790 caliber GPU. It's all x86 architecture. While they might get some 'optimization', I don't see a "gamers" pc being outdone in any way this time around. Or crashing. My gaming rig hasn't crashed in any of the 300+ games in over 3 years running Win 7. And while my Nvidia GPU might be my biggest 'heal' against the new console setup, even Xbox used them in their latest E3 display test rigs... Which I found about as embarrassing as it gets. At least Sony used their actual hardware. Kudos to that. I do not see PC gaming being anything but boosted by the latest setup of consoles which all I have to say is 'about time' since we've been neglected for so long.

Plus the Steam Box can run on Linux which most steam games do support and after testing it myself, they run better, faster, smoother, etc. Go figure. We'll see when it's released. But they hired entire teams specifically to recode games just for this purpose. Or via their own site; you can install windows if you want.

 

[Guest]

PC gaming is good if you are patient and willing to build your own rig to get the best gaming experience possible.

For most that is not an option, many parents buy a console for their children to play with. Others cannot game on the PC because their wives would not condone a grown-a$$ man hiding in his mancave playing Battlefield all night long while she wants some pie.

 

[Burty117]

Just thought I'd leave this here as it is pretty much the worst press Microsoft could get and it's completely their fault

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xb...ng-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html

Considering their console runs on ATI hardware, If I was an exec at AMD/ATI I would like to know why they were using Nvidia cards in their test rigs? And for Microsoft internally, why wasn't windows 8 being used? It seems Microsoft themselves don't trust windows 8!

 

[SirGCal]

PC gaming is good if you are patient and willing to build your own rig to get the best gaming experience possible.

For most that is not an option, many parents buy a console for their children to play with. Others cannot game on the PC because their wives would not condone a grown-a$$ man hiding in his mancave playing Battlefield all night long while she wants some pie.

If you ignore your family; PC or Console doesn't matter. You have other issues. I work 120 hours and play too many games as it is. But I also have a wife and twin infant boys. So I play at the wee-morning hours (when I'm still awake that is). I'm 38 and mostly game on my PC when I do have a chance to sit down and play. Right now it isn't much but over time it will grow again. But if you ignore your duties, you are anything but a 'grown-a$$' man, I don't care how physically old you might be...

 

[m4a4]

Just thought I'd leave this here as it is pretty much the worst press Microsoft could get and it's completely their fault

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xb...ng-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html

Considering their console runs on ATI hardware, If I was an exec at AMD/ATI I would like to know why they were using Nvidia cards in their test rigs? And for Microsoft internally, why wasn't windows 8 being used? It seems Microsoft themselves don't trust windows 8!

Or people like you don't think. It is one of the dev kits (something they wouldn't change just because they made a deal with AMD). It's supposed to have more power so that they can do diagnostics and such.
Here, it was revealed a long while ago it was using Nvidia, if you don't believe me: http://gamerant.com/xbox-720-dev-kit-details-ram-graphics-card-kinect-tao-161164/

 

[captaincranky]

You said - ........... "This PRISM issue would be a non issue......,"


This is the problem captaincranky, you are saying that........., its all ok?

Sorry dude, but with that statement, you are part of the problem.

No NO NO, never in my name.....[ ]....

I actually didn't make a judgement call on PRISM itself. What I did highlight is, that we're all sheep in a pen of our own making.

As I pointed out in the other thread I linked, right or wrong, our NSA doesn't have the time money or manpower, to devote to watching every moment of every man, woman, and child's life on the planet.

So, a lot of this outrage over PRISM, is simply pursuant to people deluding themselves into believing they're way, way more interesting and important than they really are.

I'm probably closer to neutral on the issue than anything else.

George Bush was way more dangerous than this administration, (or so I think), because he was requesting that ISPs turn over every account that had done a search for porn, so that (ostensibly), child pornographers could be rooted out.

Talk about killing a c0ckroach with a 12 gauge. Now that psycho WAS dangerous.

 

[SexyMan]

I find the Japanese electronic company arrogant and I wont support it with my American dollars and I bet allot of other family guy Dads wont ether. Why would I want to drive to Gamestop anyway to trade a used disk for another warn out used disk. I tell my kid to buy a downloadable game and save myself the hassle. DRM is a red herring to which Sony hopes it can hang its hat on for a few years. Heck if people love storage media so much they should demand all future games come on carts like old school days. The Sony is only $50 cheaper when you include the Sony Big eye. The reason Microsoft is requiring the Kenect for the Xbox one is so developers will include it in there games. Third party developers will not risk the cash on a add on that most people will not have. The Kenect is smart tech and people will come to rely on it in the future. The Xbox has more family innovation. College kids have no jobs and live off mom and dad and teens get what dad buys so I think the guys that have a life and don't vote in this thing will buy the family product. Dads win Nerds lose

We need people like you who thinks the other way and supports the XB1 no matter what. Without you, the competition would be so imbalanced. XB1 getting zero supporter is not good for the console war.

Product competitions are good for customers like you and me.

Thank you for your sacrifice, we really appreciate it.

 

[Guest]

SexyMan said:
I find the Japanese electronic company arrogant and I wont support it with my American dollars and I bet allot of other family guy Dads wont ether. Why would I want to drive to Gamestop anyway to trade a used disk for another warn out used disk. I tell my kid to buy a downloadable game and save myself the hassle. DRM is a red herring to which Sony hopes it can hang its hat on for a few years. Heck if people love storage media so much they should demand all future games come on carts like old school days. The Sony is only $50 cheaper when you include the Sony Big eye. The reason Microsoft is requiring the Kenect for the Xbox one is so developers will include it in there games. Third party developers will not risk the cash on a add on that most people will not have. The Kenect is smart tech and people will come to rely on it in the future. The Xbox has more family innovation. College kids have no jobs and live off mom and dad and teens get what dad buys so I think the guys that have a life and don't vote in this thing will buy the family product. Dads win Nerds lose


We need people like you who thinks the other way and supports the XB1 no matter what. Without you, the competition would be so imbalanced. XB1 getting zero supporter is not good for the console war.
Product competitions are good for customers like you and me.
Thank you for your sacrifice, we really appreciate it.

Quoting and supporting a fool that got completely destroyed on this topic is not a smart thing to do here. You might want to try again.

 

[captaincranky]

Quoting and supporting a fool that got completely destroyed on this topic is not a smart thing to do here. You might want to try again.

You realize you're spotting people a few credibility points by posting as "guest", don't you?

 

[technogiant]

I would like to know what you people think about this: http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions
I for one would love a Steam-like console, and I think MS has the potential to get it right... at least eventually

That's an interesting take on the reason for the DRM/used game restrictions......I suppose it all depends on whether they use the extra revenue it would generate to reduce game prices or they would simply keep then artificially inflated and rake in the profit.

Call me a cynic but corporate greed being what it is will probably lead to the latter being the case.

 

[captaincranky]

They technically are treading new ground (stupid ground to tread, but they are). They are catering to discs and are trying to make it seem like they aren't biased towards digital downloads, all while trying for a Steam-like console. If they didn't support the discs in a way that allowed reselling/trading/loaning, then they wouldn't have the strict DRM that everyone loves to hate.

OK look, I'm not going to hammer you for this the way the others have. But this is completely off target,and along with some other entries you've made in this thread, quite naive.

M$' ulterior motive/ agenda is to force subscription software on everybody. Yes, Windows and all.

You can love or hate discs for whatever reason, but the reason for getting rid of them is to get customers acclimated to digital download only (*). The next step is for software publishers to make themselves indispensable to an addicted client base. The third step, (which M$ has already taken), is to offer software on either a purchase or subscription basis. This is what they've done with "Office 365". And the last step is to pull the plug, tell you that their software is subscription only, and tell you to go f*** yourself if you don't like it.

Please don't argue with me about this. Adobe has already done this with almost all of their pro line software, and M$ is absolutely heading that way. M$ is copying Apple's business model with a more closed system, an app store, and this new stinking tablet OS, "Windows 8". You're quite liable to wake up at the end of the month with a software bill in your mailbox, right along with your electric bill. And yes, these douches are that greedy, that malicious, and that unconcerned about what the "consumer" wants. We're all sheep to them, ready for fleecing.

(*) Getting rid of DVDs just puts money into a software companies pocket. They're not going to "drop the price and pass the savings along to you". They're going to do some type of analog of the same crap the credit card companies do. Which is, lay a bunch of guilt on you for making them cut down trees to send you a paper bill, pocket the material and mailing cost savings if you go along with it, and raise your interest rate the first they have an even half-a**ed excuse to do so.

 

[Puiu]

Both new consoles use an AMD APU (CPU/GPU combo) of which is roughly an AMD 7790 caliber GPU. It's all x86 architecture. While they might get some 'optimization', I don't see a "gamers" pc being outdone in any way this time around.

As far as I know the PS4 has a GPU a bit more powerful than the 7850 and the XBOX one is a bit less than the 7770 (1.84 TFLOPs in the PS4 to 1.23 TFLOPs in the Xbox One - that's a pretty big difference).
As for the PC comparison, if you factor in the overhead and optimization, the console architecture should put it's power around 30 to 50% bigger than a PC with the same CPU and GPU when it comes to games. (depending on the game the values can be bigger or higher)
In this case you are looking at a mid to high range PC with fairly powerful gaming performance although it's still less powerful than high-end ones.

We'll just have to wait and see the first games that are ported from consoles to PC and vice-versa to see exactly the difference between the consoles and PC's.

 

[captaincranky]

And I find it hilarious that you ask me if there are serial numbers. Buying a console is not a service. The console assumes you bought the game, there's no intervention by the system to check with cloud and make sure no one else has installed it. Just like the model now, you obviously need the disc for the initial spin, but the data is read from the HDD.

Sony has already stated that they have the technology to have a disc only be playable on the first machine it was put into. This was in regard to movies, as a way of preventing piracy. Sony also signed off on root kitting people's PCs under the auspices of "copy protection" on a run of music CDs a few years back. My point is, I really wouldn't put anything past them, or for that matter, M$.

The only thing that killed the movies idea, is the rental houses would be put out of business, and I guess Sony wasn't ready for that legal battle.

It wouldn't be really difficult to implement single machine usage. Just ship the discs unfinalized, and at first use, have a burning laser installed in the game console. The laser finalizes the disc, while tattooing the mother board SN on the disc. If the SN on the disc and the machine don't match, it don't play.

One of the few reasons they have for not trying this, is because they've barely lived down the root kit scandal.

 

[SirGCal]

As far as I know the PS4 has a GPU a bit more powerful than the 7850 and the XBOX one is a bit less than the 7770 (1.84 TFLOPs in the PS4 to 1.23 TFLOPs in the Xbox One - that's a pretty big difference).
As for the PC comparison, if you factor in the overhead and optimization, the console architecture should put it's power around 30 to 50% bigger than a PC with the same CPU and GPU when it comes to games. (depending on the game the values can be bigger or higher)
In this case you are looking at a mid to high range PC with fairly powerful gaming performance although it's still less powerful than high-end ones.

We'll just have to wait and see the first games that are ported from consoles to PC and vice-versa to see exactly the difference between the consoles and PC's.

Absolutely. That's why I said roughly. I think one of the benchmarking sites I work with did theory testing with the PS4 actually 50% faster overall with everything combined. That would be a pretty huge leap but... we'll see. The GPU has to be a giant chunk of that though as it is a lot more capable then the XBox version... I was actually looking forward to the new XBox... They dropped FLAC, then MKV... now all of this. For a 'media center replacement system'. ?!? I just don't get it. /shrug

I actually didn't get a PS3 until much later in the game but if I do get a console this time around (I'm a PC gamer pure and simple), it will be PS4 and I'm not even going to bother with the Box.

But either way, neither one of them even starts to compare to my i7-3770k with GTX 690, hopefully soon to be pair of Titans over three 144Hz 27" screens. But I'm also in a wheelchair and a bit crazy and spend more then most people would on my computer obviously (and also have friends in high places) as that is pretty much the only entertainment I ever get. But that's another discussion.

Even still, a modest CPU and current GPU combo beats out either console as much as a year before their release dates. I.E. The AMD FX-8350, probably as close to the comparable console setup as you'll get in a PC at the moment... $199 right now, available back in October... Add motherboard for $40+, memory $30+, rest depending on what you want, how you want to do it. And there's your gaming rig. Not mine grant ya but still... Should run most with no problems.

And that's still regardless of any would-be game optimization. For most people, once you're at 1080 @ 60fps with all the candy, what more do you need? Most people aren't me but... still. And honestly, the consoles at release aren't going to play some current games at that level, at least at their capabilities (Crysis 3 as an obvious example, but there are plenty more). They will be down-graded for the consoles. The one thing above all others I always love about the PC (other then no lame auto-aimers, etc. or need for such) is the ability to adjust your graphics, or in my cases 'crank it up'.

 

[Burty117]

Just thought I'd leave this here as it is pretty much the worst press Microsoft could get and it's completely their fault

http://www.cinemablend.com/games/Xb...ng-Windows-7-With-Nvidia-GTX-Cards-56737.html

Considering their console runs on ATI hardware, If I was an exec at AMD/ATI I would like to know why they were using Nvidia cards in their test rigs? And for Microsoft internally, why wasn't windows 8 being used? It seems Microsoft themselves don't trust windows 8!

Or people like you don't think. It is one of the dev kits (something they wouldn't change just because they made a deal with AMD). It's supposed to have more power so that they can do diagnostics and such.
Here, it was revealed a long while ago it was using Nvidia, if you don't believe me: http://gamerant.com/xbox-720-dev-kit-details-ram-graphics-card-kinect-tao-161164/

So most of E3 was run on machines that the graphics card alone is more expensive than the entire console?! I am thinking thank you very much, your the special one here trying to justify the Xbox One as a viable console to actually purchase.

True, ATI shouldn't be worried because it was a dev kit, but Sony had actual hardware on show and the games really were running on the almost finished product.

Why couldn't Microsoft do the same? and in earlier interviews EA said that the kit being used was of "equal" spec to the Xbox One, I'm sorry, but a GTX 780 wipes the floor with the Xbox One by way over a TFLOP, that's not equal in the slightest. Since this was a dev kit Windows 7 can be let off the hook, still surprised Microsoft didn't have it upgraded to Windows 8 though.

 

[Divvet]

The problem with PC gaming is You Will Spend Allot Of Time Driving Circles To The Walmart to upgrade your PC for the latest game. This game for that new card and more memory , and another new card and then crash , crash , because a driver failed to work with some such monitor and motherboard configuration. People that think their special because their a PC gamer spend more time telling people their a PC gamer than actually playing games. My PC is awesome , My PC is better than your PC. Blah.blah. blah. Guess what nerd my 10k in home theaters 2 of them blows away your PC in gaming. 2Panasonic 65" plasma , 2Yamaha 7.2 140watts per channel ,14 M&K speakers and 2 sub woofers ,dusty PS3 and over used xbox360. I dont have to wonder if my gaming system is configured correctly to play the game, It plays the game no problems EVERY TIME. Boom! Get a real job then step up to the plate and buy both systems

From every PC gamer in the world.... WRONG! in so many ways.

 

[m4a4]

OK look, I'm not going to hammer you for this the way the others have. But this is completely off target,and along with some other entries you've made in this thread, quite naive.

M$' ulterior motive/ agenda is to force subscription software on everybody. Yes, Windows and all.

You can love or hate discs for whatever reason, but the reason for getting rid of them is to get customers acclimated to digital download only (*). The next step is for software publishers to make themselves indispensable to an addicted client base. The third step, (which M$ has already taken), is to offer software on either a purchase or subscription basis. This is what they've done with "Office 365". And the last step is to pull the plug, tell you that their software is subscription only, and tell you to go f*** yourself if you don't like it.

Please don't argue with me about this. Adobe has already done this with almost all of their pro line software, and M$ is absolutely heading that way. M$ is copying Apple's business model with a more closed system, an app store, and this new stinking tablet OS, "Windows 8". You're quite liable to wake up at the end of the month with a software bill in your mailbox, right along with your electric bill. And yes, these douches are that greedy, that malicious, and that unconcerned about what the "consumer" wants. We're all sheep to them, ready for fleecing.

(*) Getting rid of DVDs just puts money into a software companies pocket. They're not going to "drop the price and pass the savings along to you". They're going to do some type of analog of the same crap the credit card companies do. Which is, lay a bunch of guilt on you for making them cut down trees to send you a paper bill, pocket the material and mailing cost savings if you go along with it, and raise your interest rate the first they have an even half-a**ed excuse to do so.

I won't assume that the very first objective for MS is to screw people over, but I wouldn't put it past them.
And if they don't go the way of Steam with lower prices (like you are saying they won't), then I can't see them being all that successful in the long run.
Adobe might have subscriptions, but I still don't hear of people being happy with them.

But I believe Steam has set the bar pretty high (especially for consumers), and only time will tell if console makers follow suit or not and if it is good enough for the consumer...

 

[m4a4]

So most of E3 was run on machines that the graphics card alone is more expensive than the entire console?! I am thinking thank you very much, your the special one here trying to justify the Xbox One as a viable console to actually purchase.

True, ATI shouldn't be worried because it was a dev kit, but Sony had actual hardware on show and the games really were running on the almost finished product.

Why couldn't Microsoft do the same? and in earlier interviews EA said that the kit being used was of "equal" spec to the Xbox One, I'm sorry, but a GTX 780 wipes the floor with the Xbox One by way over a TFLOP, that's not equal in the slightest. Since this was a dev kit Windows 7 can be let off the hook, still surprised Microsoft didn't have it upgraded to Windows 8 though.

That's a big assumption for someone who followed someone elses assumption about the dev kits not being dev kits. I never said the console was a good purchase, especially in it's current state. I'm just removing misconceptions...

From what I hear, it was dev kits also for the ps4 (and on stage with Assassins Creed it froze/overheated/errored because of something).
And why would it be Windows 8? The dev kits have been around for years while that hasn't been around that long...

 

[Kevin82485]

I would like to know what you people think about this: http://www.neowin.net/news/anonymous-xbox-engineer-explains-drm-and-microsofts-xbox-one-intentions
I for one would love a Steam-like console, and I think MS has the potential to get it right... at least eventually

There's nothing to say that Sony couldn't implement a similar steam-like structure. Microsoft is the foolish one if they think Sony couldn't easy do this. Steam is great because of the awesome, cheap, discounted games, and if Microsoft is able to do that with X1, then great, but Sony could and likely will just as easily do that with the digital downloads while also offering easy to use, DRM-free(-ish) discs. I think Microsoft is forgetting that all PS4 games will be downloadable as well so there nothing to stop Sony from price matching. The advantage PS4 has is appeal to those people who don't want to be locked down with DRM and still want to buy disc games.

If someone could explain how Sony couldn't also do this, I would love to hear it. The "Xbox employee" who posted that rant in the link you provided is a cantankerous, pig-headed buffoon.

 

[Guest]

The bottom line is this, if I can't buy and sell used games I'm just not interested.

 

[m4a4]

There's nothing to say that Sony couldn't implement a similar steam-like structure. Microsoft is the foolish one if they think Sony couldn't easy do this. Steam is great because of the awesome, cheap, discounted games, and if Microsoft is able to do that with X1, then great, but Sony could and likely will just as easily do that with the digital downloads while also offering easy to use, DRM-free(-ish) discs. I think Microsoft is forgetting that all PS4 games will be downloadable as well so there nothing to stop Sony from price matching. The advantage PS4 has is appeal to those people who don't want to be locked down with DRM and still want to buy disc games.

If someone could explain how Sony couldn't also do this, I would love to hear it. The "Xbox employee" who posted that rant in the link you provided is a cantankerous, pig-headed buffoon.

At this point, it could only be a half and half Steam implementation (as the disc games will not be attached to your account in the right way). And I think the biggest problem would be for Sony to not look biased towards digital download over disc (that would annoy the retailer).

There are too many politics around these issues and Sony isn't financially in a spot to take such a big risk.

Oh, and where does it say that ALL of the ps4's games will be digital downloads day 1? I know MS announced that theirs would at E3, but I only remember hearing that the ps4 games would have digital downloads too, not specifically day 1...