Ryzen 7 vs. Core i7: Revisiting the 2700X vs. 8700K

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,229   +5,931
Most games, from what I've seen, can run just fine on a Core i7.

For example: when I streamed Cyberpunk I was using a 5960x with a 2080Ti and 32GB DDR4 on a 8TB Samsung QVO.

The game was running flawlessly.

The 5960X is a workstation grade CPU from 2014.

The real test would be to see how well games work on the i7 4790, but I already know the 8700K was way beefier than the 5960 I was streaming from.

I believe most games are GPU intensive rather than CPU intensive lately - but even then, most of them run just fine on a Core i5 for 1080p and 1440p gaming.
 

Irata

Posts: 1,675   +2,812
Thanks for the revisit. So the 8700K is indeed still a better gaming CPU than the 2700X but I‘d say that doesn‘t come as a surprise to anyone. What this review should also lay to rest are claims that Zen+ is a bad gaming CPU.

I‘m pretty happy with my 2700X, considering I paid €250 new for CPU+HSF (€150) including Borderlands 3 and an MSI B450 Max mainboard (€100).

Once Zen 3 CPU become cheaper, and upgrade to a 5800X is an option. Total spend will probably still be lower than getting an 8700K plus board and HSF.

What I‘d really like to see is if the extra cores make a difference when running tons of tasks in the background. I believe they do, but could be completely wrong as sadly no one tests this. Imho that would be good to know for making a buying decision wrt core count.

 

Daniele 00

Posts: 104   +82
I'm fine with my 2600x for gaming. In a pair of years I'll update to a newer ryzen (5600x maybe?) depending on the market. On the contrary 8700k users will have to buy directly a new pc. (cpu mb ram) and assamble it.
 

Nobina

Posts: 3,292   +3,369
We've come to a point where an i7-8700K is considered old. Damn.

At least this test shows these CPUs are still just fine for most people which means you don't have to upgrade every year or two as some people would make you believe.

Similar to the recent GPU throwbacks, they're mostly fine for 1080p gaming and some 1440p as well.
 

Austinturner

Posts: 277   +325
Most games, from what I've seen, can run just fine on a Core i7.

For example: when I streamed Cyberpunk I was using a 5960x with a 2080Ti and 32GB DDR4 on a 8TB Samsung QVO.

The game was running flawlessly.

The 5960X is a workstation grade CPU from 2014.

The real test would be to see how well games work on the i7 4790, but I already know the 8700K was way beefier than the 5960 I was streaming from.

I believe most games are GPU intensive rather than CPU intensive lately - but even then, most of them run just fine on a Core i5 for 1080p and 1440p gaming.
The 4790k is now about to become a problem for me, I have been gpu limited by using a gtx1080 at 4k so haven’t noticed the CPU, but as soon as I get a 3080 the 4790k is going to be holding the GPU back significantly in a few games I want to play like arma, dcs, msfs etc.

The 5800x would be great for a long time, but I don’t want to buy into DDR4 platform now, so I’m planning to get a 12900k provided it has an upgrade path to the following intel generation (fingers crossed given they should both be socket 1700).
 

Tantor

Posts: 189   +335
Good article, but the 2700x was never intended to compete with the 8700k in gaming. What made the 2700x great was the excellent multi-tasking performance at a reasonable price. All in all, a very good value.

I wonder if TechSpot will repeat this article in the future with the 5800x vs the 11700k? Probably not, the 5800x dominates the 11700k. I can't wait for Zen4.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 5,229   +5,931
The 4790k is now about to become a problem for me, I have been gpu limited by using a gtx1080 at 4k so haven’t noticed the CPU, but as soon as I get a 3080 the 4790k is going to be holding the GPU back significantly in a few games I want to play like arma, dcs, msfs etc.

The 5800x would be great for a long time, but I don’t want to buy into DDR4 platform now, so I’m planning to get a 12900k provided it has an upgrade path to the following intel generation (fingers crossed given they should both be socket 1700).



I am waiting till DDR5 before I buy a new platform.
 

Austinturner

Posts: 277   +325
I am waiting till DDR5 before I buy a new platform.
Given my history with Intel I’m a little worried a motherboard that supports Alder Lake won’t support Raptor Lake as an upgrade down the line, I’m not sure if using the same socket will guarantee support 12 months away.

I’m also a little worried we won’t have particularly performant DDR5 (speed and latency combination) for a while after alder lake release.

But Zen 4 and Raptor Lake are too far away.
 
Having recently upgraded from a 2700x+DDR4 3200 tuned to a 5600x+DDR4 3600@3866 tuned with an oldie but goldie Vega 64 (both in the same full custom loop), I can say that I never played that smoothly with the 2700x, especially in GTA V (where I doubled my minimum FPS from ~25 to ~55). As I sold the old parts (including an X470 mobo and an NVMe 3.0 ssd) for a really good price, I only paid 350€ for the upgrade to 2021 spec. Again, the smoooooooothness of the 5600x….
 

Crunch

Posts: 12   +4
Nice article. However I'd like to see more emphasis on 1% performance rather than average. :)
 

deathtrap

Posts: 14   +4
I think the load on the Main-Game-Thread and so its latency sensitivity goes up year over year.
Programming techniques get better and this very thread can do more on modern games than on older ones. This comes from offloading work to parallel threads (wich if done right do not produce thread-bubbles) and other accelerators like the GPU.
But there are still the same limits like amdahls law and the very taxing and complicated work of vectorizing code and writing fast efficient multithreaded code and will be likely forever or someone builds a godlike foolproof perfect tool for that wich could be just a dream.

okay, so I have some old games, poorly programmed DX9 on a DX8 base, racinggame on steam called ProjectTorque, its closed Beta was like August 2006.
Im on a Ryzen 2700 with Aegis 2x8GB 3000 CL16
I benchmarked a specific track, with several Bios settings XMP on-off and Win Game Mode on-off etc.
and the by far biggest gain I got was from turning the memory-interleaving to "none" wich lowers the overall bandwidth of the RAM but lowers the latency also.
it gives me nearly 5% gain in 0.1% linear lows frametime
combined with XMP-on I get an additional 5% for 10% better values in total.
those where 5 minute runs each with 3 Laps
what "mem.interleaving none" seems to do also is giving hints to OS or driver to keep threads on same CCX and cache, but I have no equipment to check that thesis.
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
I'm fine with my 2600x for gaming. In a pair of years I'll update to a newer ryzen (5600x maybe?) depending on the market. On the contrary 8700k users will have to buy directly a new pc. (cpu mb ram) and assamble it.

So what haha. A 8700K overclocked to 5 GHz on all cores will wreck a 2600X. Ryzen 2000 can't even do guarranteed 4.2 GHz on all cores, 4.1 is Avg OC. Hell 8700K will even beat a 3700X/3800X in pretty much every game and Ryzen 3000 is way faster than 1000 and 2000 series. Glofo 12nm was and is a terrible proces node. Inferior to Intel 14nm in every way.

No-one with a 8700K @ 5 GHz will have a reason to upgrade before a few years, when next gen platforms are out, if gaming and emulation is the focus.

AM4 is pretty much a dead end at this point, so people looking to have the best will have to replace motherboard and memory anyway.

Both AMD and Intel does new sockets soon.

I have never understood why people buy a somewhat crappy CPU just to be able to replace it in a few years, instead of buying something decent from day one, enjoy good performance from the start and then replace the whole system after 4-5 years.

Why do you think it's a good thing that you can re-use an old motherboard and memory? SELLING the full bundle will net you way more money on the used market and you can then buy brand new stuff, which is always better.

Never have and never will re-use motherboard and memory.
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,240   +898
Why do you think it's a good thing that you can re-use an old motherboard and memory? SELLING the full bundle will net you way more money on the used market and you can then buy brand new stuff, which is always better.
Now let's see:

Option 1: Open case, take out CPU cooler, take out CPU, add new CPU, put cooler back, close case. Done.

Option 2: Open case, unplug Every wire, cut all straps holding wires on place (cable management), take out all screws holding motherboard on place, take out everything attached on motherboard including cooler, finally take motherboard out, take new motherboard and pray it's socket has no bent pins, ... , put everything back on case and plug every wire, make new cable management, close case. Done.

Good enough reason?
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
Now let's see:

Option 1: Open case, take out CPU cooler, take out CPU, add new CPU, put cooler back, close case. Done.

Option 2: Open case, unplug Every wire, cut all straps holding wires on place (cable management), take out all screws holding motherboard on place, take out everything attached on motherboard including cooler, finally take motherboard out, take new motherboard and pray it's socket has no bent pins, ... , put everything back on case and plug every wire, make new cable management, close case. Done.

Good enough reason?

Add this to Option 1; Deal with software issues, missing support and missing features since motherboard is dated, much bigger chance of motherboard dying after 4-5 years (MOSFETs dated), lacking VRM / power delivery because CPUs need more and more juice and ripple gets worse and worse too. Also firmware needs update; profiles and settings gone, so nah not just plug and play etc.

ONCE AGAIN, if you buy a decent motherboard, cpu and memory it will easily last 4-5 years without changing ANYTHING. So why buy a crappy CPU that only last 2-3 years before it needs upgrading? Pointless.. The CPU was crappy from the start if it don't last 4-5 years.

Changing motherboard, cpu and memory + proper cabling takes 30 minutes tops, are you new at this? :joy: I have built 1000s of PCs for over 25 years at this point.. It's piece of cake these days, takes no time.

Maybe you should re-think how you put systems together if this is a timeconsuming operation and we are talking about once every 3-4-5 years haha..
 
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HardReset

Posts: 1,240   +898
Add this to Option 1; Deal with software issues, missing support and missing features since motherboard is dated, much bigger chance of motherboard dying after 4-5 years (MOSFETs dated), lacking VRM / power delivery because CPUs need more and more juice and ripple gets worse and worse too. Also firmware needs update; profiles and settings gone, so nah not just plug and play etc.

ONCE AGAIN, if you buy a decent motherboard, cpu and memory it will easily last 4-5 years without changing ANYTHING. So why buy a crappy CPU that only last 2-3 years before it needs upgrading? Pointless.. The CPU was crappy from the start if it don't last 4-5 years.

Changing motherboard, cpu and memory + proper cabling takes 30 minutes tops, are you new at this? :joy: I have built 1000s of PCs for over 25 years at this point.. It's piece of cake these days, takes no time.

Maybe you should re-think how you put systems together if this is a timeconsuming operation and we are talking about once every 3-4-5 years haha..
Buy good enough motherboard and you don't have to worry about those.

There are points. CPU lasts 5 years :laughing: Just 4 years ago 2017 Intel's fastest desktop CPU was i7-7700K. To get much better one two years later, you must have bought AM4 motherboard with Zen2 CPU. Total: Intel motherboard+7700K+AM4 motherboard+Zen2.

How about another route? Buy AM4 motherboard and cheapest Ryzen available. 2019 buy Zen2. Total: AM4 motherboard+cheap Ryzen+Zen2.

Needless to say second option was much cheaper and much easier.

That "time consuming" operation also includes risk that motherboard is broken. And that situation truly sucks. Second option only has risk that CPU is broken, much more rare.
 

Bawlsdeep

Posts: 141   +153
Buy good enough motherboard and you don't have to worry about those.

There are points. CPU lasts 5 years :laughing: Just 4 years ago 2017 Intel's fastest desktop CPU was i7-7700K. To get much better one two years later, you must have bought AM4 motherboard with Zen2 CPU. Total: Intel motherboard+7700K+AM4 motherboard+Zen2.

How about another route? Buy AM4 motherboard and cheapest Ryzen available. 2019 buy Zen2. Total: AM4 motherboard+cheap Ryzen+Zen2.

Needless to say second option was much cheaper and much easier.

That "time consuming" operation also includes risk that motherboard is broken. And that situation truly sucks. Second option only has risk that CPU is broken, much more rare.
Yes you will, even the best motherboard have 3 years warrenty tops and I have seen tons of board dying after 5+ years even topend aka 500+ dollar boards, most have 1-2 years, why? BECAUSE THEY OFTEN DIE AFTER 4-5-6 years. If they lasted for 10 years with ease, they would give 5 years warrenty. THEY DON'T. LOGIC 101.

Haha yeah sure, tons of cheap AM4 boards based on 300 series chipsets never support more than 2000 and 3000 series because ROM was too little and VRMs sucked too much. Alot of manufacturers did not even patch them properly and theres tons of threads with issues + BSODs after adding a newer ryzen in an older board + memory speed / timings and infinity fabric speed was wonky, which resulted in SUBPAR performance. Thats what you get from re-using old garbage.

You sound like you have no experience with higher end systems. I would never buy a garbage chip just to replace it 2 years after. Then I would rather wait and get a proper system from day one, ONE THAT LASTS 4-5 years.

Ryzen 1000 sucked (people were pretty much beta testers)
Ryzen 2000 sucked (crappy clockspeed, mediocre IPC and GloFo 12nm was and is a terrible node)

Ryzen 3000 was decent but first with 5000 series it was somewhat great. So whats the point. Very few boards from 1st gen allows to use a high-end 5000 chip. Hell most can't even be flashed because ROM is too little to fit the new firmware and VRM is garbage so overclocking is out of the window and boost speeds are much lower.

A Ryzen 1000/2000 chip today is worth pretty much NOTHING on the used market without motherboard and memory bundled with it.

A 8700K at 5 GHz performs like a 11600K at 5 GHz in comparison (6C/12T vs 6C/12T). 8700K is from 2017 and beats every Ryzen 1000, 2000 and 3000 in gaming when overclocked to 5 GHz which all can.

So you can talk all you want, nothing changes. If your CPU needs replacing with 2-3 years, it was garbage from the beginning, obviously...
 
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