Senate vote allows FBI access to your browsing history without a warrant

TheBigFatClown

Posts: 780   +297
The death rate from covid-19 is much higher than previous flu year deaths. If you're basing your opinion on that, then you may want to reconsider it.
No, actually I don't want to reconsider. I see all the freedoms being stripped from people in the name of protection. You really need to start reading between the lines. I'll certainly keep an open mind because it's important for us as human beings to learn things.

Doctors have stated that they are being pressured to classify deaths as COVID-19 in a very loose manner. All of America is listening to 2 doctors and ignoring thousands of others with different opinions. Is that what you're doing also? Post links if you think it will help your case. I'll always reconsider my viewpoints if it makes sense. Right now, nothing you have said or told me suggests I should do so.
 

ShagnWagn

Posts: 1,297   +1,081
Lol, you got that backwards. The Senate is neocon/repub controlled and there's no doubt that the repubs want more control over the government.

FYI:

116th Congress (2019-2021)
Majority Party: Republican (53 seats)
Minority Party: Democrat (45 seats)
Other Parties: 2 Independents (both caucus with the Democrats)
Total Seats: 100
FTFY :)

Historically, dems want bigger government for complete control over the people (galactic empire - the dark side). Reps want more control over the government but believe in a smaller government - power to the people (rebel alliance). Both are fighting for "power" though.

There are policies on both sides I agree/disagree with. I don't align with one. I hate this whole privacy invasion promoted by the reps. That and denying any climate change at all.

It's pretty easy to vote for me though - I just can't bring myself to vote for the party who promotes mass slaughter of children.
 
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Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,405   +1,378
TechSpot Elite
No, actually I don't want to reconsider. I see all the freedoms being stripped from people in the name of protection. You really need to start reading between the lines. I'll certainly keep an open mind because it's important for us as human beings to learn things.

Doctors have stated that they are being pressured to classify deaths as COVID-19 in a very loose manner. All of America is listening to 2 doctors and ignoring thousands of others with different opinions. Is that what you're doing also? Post links if you think it will help your case. I'll always reconsider my viewpoints if it makes sense. Right now, nothing you have said or told me suggests I should do so.
You made an inaccurate claim which I addressed and I see no answer from you. Here's data you can use to reconsider:

US: 85K deaths from covid-19 in 2 months
US: 30-65K flu deaths in 12 months

All of America is not listening to 2 doctors. That's just an easy, baseless claim to justify an opinion.

Doctors are listening to a consensus of experts from around the world and in fact the excess numbers of deaths in many places when compared to previous years is higher than the number of covid-19 assigned deaths. This means there are extra deaths with no other explanation, which strongly implies that those are also covid deaths which haven't been classified yet.

 

Axil00

Posts: 29   +36
Every government in the world did not respond to the virus in the same manner. So, my argument isn't really flawed from that stand point. I didn't say it was the SAME virus. I said it was a mutation from the same FAMILY of viruses. There are a quadrillion x quadrillion different viruses on planet Earth. Your only afraid of 1 of those right now because people in high places have conditioned you to be. It's population control through fear. And it seems its working pretty good on most people.

The death rate is very similar, more or less, to previous year flu deaths. The governments response this year versus the past 20 years is very different. Why?
I agree that the US overreacted to COVID. It's disingenuous to act as of this just another run of the mill virus though. Looking at death tolls in NYC you can see that we are dealing with a severe outbreak with tragic consequences.

I don't think it was unreasonable to declare emergency measures to make sure our healthcare system wasn't overwhelmed, and that was the stated purpose of the initial restrictions.

Now we know we have the capacity to handle many times more cases than we have currently. The curve is flattened, we are well past the point of diminishing returns and even taking the economy out of the equation entirely may now be causing more death from stress, isolation, and difficulty utilizing our regular healthcare services.

None of that matters though because COVID has become the political football that will determine who becomes president in 2020, and which side gains ground in government in all levels.

At the same time those at the highest risk must live in fear and isolation for even longer because we are preventing low risk people from contracting and recovering from the virus removing themselves as vectors.

Herd immunity is a misnomer, its really more of hard resistance. Every recovery increases it. But hey, dont worry. We printed 3 trillion dollars, that'll fix it. If not we'll just print a few trillion more.
 
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EClyde

Posts: 2,220   +869
This is nothing. They already control about half the population....Global warming, multiculturalism, etc. The want even more control via public health.
 
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TheBigFatClown

Posts: 780   +297
You made an inaccurate claim which I addressed and I see no answer from you. Here's data you can use to reconsider:

US: 85K deaths from covid-19 in 2 months
US: 30-65K flu deaths in 12 months

All of America is not listening to 2 doctors. That's just an easy, baseless claim to justify an opinion.

Doctors are listening to a consensus of experts from around the world and in fact the excess numbers of deaths in many places when compared to previous years is higher than the number of covid-19 assigned deaths. This means there are extra deaths with no other explanation, which strongly implies that those are also covid deaths which haven't been classified yet.

Right...so you posted numbers of deaths that have been "classified" as COVID-19 deaths and made no comment regarding individual doctors being pressured to classify more deaths as COVID-19. You used the word higher so by definition at least greater than 1? Okay, got it. I said, more or less, the same amount of deaths. It isn't a pissing contest.

Does "listening to everyone" include censoring those who disagree with you? Like YouTube and Facebook removing videos and banning materials? Yeah, that sounds like a real open and honest form of debate.
 
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Axil00

Posts: 29   +36
FTFY :)

Historically, dems want bigger government for complete control over the people (galactic empire - the dark side). Reps want more control over the government but believe in a smaller government - power to the people (rebel alliance). Both are fighting for "power" though.

There are policies on both sides I agree/disagree with. I don't align with one. I hate this whole privacy invasion promoted by the reps. That and denying any climate change at all.

It's pretty easy to vote for me though - I just can't bring myself to vote for the party who promotes mass slaughter of children.
Enh, as someone who generally considers the GOP the lesser (barely) of two evils, I cant agree that they really want smaller government. Some do, most say they do, but the party as a whole very much wants to increase federal control and authority.

Examples include the war on drugs, supporting law enforcement officers in almost every situation regardless of the circumstances, and supporting various business regulations that sound fantastic but really only serve to raise the barrier of entry on markets to protect large companies from competition.

They are also just as interested in propping up their constituents businesses just as much as Democrats. Solar subsidies are market manipulation but dont you dare question the subsidies that the US agricultural sector is essentially based on.

I give them somewhat of a pass on climate change though because it's a buzz word that's meant for spin. Kinda like Pro-Life/Pro-choice. I mean what kind of evil individual doesn't love life and choices?

If I say I believe in climate change it implies:

1.) I believe whatever current measure they are using for historic temperatures are accurate.

The "scientific consensus" on the past changes so often it's hard to keep up

2.) I believe thier predictions of future conditions.

3.) I believe the solutions they offer will have a net positive effect on mankind.

Personally I think we probably do have a problem we need to come together and tackle but since the side most concerned with hyping the problem only wants to fix it by taking from the other guy, it's not getting fixed any time soon.

Maybe the seas will rise, the crops will die, freshwater will dry up and a bunch of people will die. Then I'm sure we will finally get motivated to figure out what to do rather than yell at each other about it.
 

Polycount

Posts: 2,446   +549
Staff member
"but the bipartisan amendment fell short of the 60-vote threshold by one vote, with many of those who were likely to vote in favor, including former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, absent."

What? Why?
 
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Axil00

Posts: 29   +36
"but the bipartisan amendment fell short of the 60-vote threshold by one vote, with many of those who were likely to vote in favor, including former presidential candidate Bernie Sanders, absent."

What? Why?
Publicly: Covid (probably)

In Reality: There's no political upside. You get no points for voting for bipartisan bills. The GOP claims credit as they control the senate. Also if god-forbid a major terrorist event happens in the next couple years you get blamed even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with the amendment.
 
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Polycount

Posts: 2,446   +549
Staff member
Publicly: Covid (probably)

In Reality: There's no political upside. You get no points for voting for bipartisan bills. The GOP claims credit as they control the senate. Also if god-forbid a major terrorist event happens in the next couple years you get blamed even if it has nothing whatsoever to do with the amendment.
I'm more wondering why Sanders sat this one out. He doesn't seem the type to care much about "points."
 
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Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,152   +2,057
I'm more wondering why Sanders sat this one out. He doesn't seem the type to care much about "points."
Maybe because he's at high risk from Covid, and despite the ignorant posts above, it's really a "thing"...

Again, this is not some conspiracy to keep us locked up.... this is a REAL disease killing REAL people. I've lost colleagues and a relative... it wasn't fake...

The curve MIGHT have flattened - a bit - we don't have enough information to really know yet... we'll find out in the weeks and months to come.

Death rates from the Flu, by the way, are far less than Covid (as a previous poster already posted) - but I bet the MILLIONS of people who died of it back after the First World War would have wished for the measures we've put in place now...

Covid will always be with us - but hopefully we'll be able to treat it effectively and it will be even less "serious" than the Flu.... but we won't know for awhile, and it's foolish to pretend otherwise and just say "it's all fine, open everything up".
 
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Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,405   +1,378
TechSpot Elite
Right...so you posted numbers of deaths that have been "classified" as COVID-19 deaths and made no comment regarding individual doctors being pressured to classify more deaths as COVID-19. You used the word higher so by definition at least greater than 1? Okay, got it. I said, more or less, the same amount of deaths. It isn't a pissing contest.
I'm sure some people are over diagnosing covid-19, but if that's even by 10% I'll be surprised. Got any actual data about that? And that article you ignored also showed how excess deaths this year are *not* classified as covid-19, which suggests the data may actually go the opposite way you suggest, once everything is accounted for.

Lol and you're reducing the difference between 85K/2 months and avg48k/yr, which is:

Flu: 4K/mo
covid-19: 42K/mo

to "greater than 1." 10x the deaths per month to you is "more or less, the same amount of deaths." I'll bet if you got a 10X increase in pay, you might not classify that as "more or less" the same.

Does "listening to everyone" include censoring those who disagree with you? Like YouTube and Facebook removing videos and banning materials? Yeah, that sounds like a real open and honest form of debate.
...and you're off to a different argument, have fun moving those goalposts!
 

Polycount

Posts: 2,446   +549
Staff member
Maybe because he's at high risk from Covid, and despite the ignorant posts above, it's really a "thing"...

Again, this is not some conspiracy to keep us locked up.... this is a REAL disease killing REAL people. I've lost colleagues and a relative... it wasn't fake...

The curve MIGHT have flattened - a bit - we don't have enough information to really know yet... we'll find out in the weeks and months to come.

Death rates from the Flu, by the way, are far less than Covid (as a previous poster already posted) - but I bet the MILLIONS of people who died of it back after the First World War would have wished for the measures we've put in place now...

Covid will always be with us - but hopefully we'll be able to treat it effectively and it will be even less "serious" than the Flu.... but we won't know for awhile, and it's foolish to pretend otherwise and just say "it's all fine, open everything up".
That's fair enough.

Me and mine are definitely taking the virus seriously, and I suppose it's unfair to expect Sanders to risk his own life (and perhaps his family's, or at least his wife's) for a vote; no matter how important it might be.
 
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TheBigFatClown

Posts: 780   +297
I'm sure some people are over diagnosing covid-19, but if that's even by 10% I'll be surprised. Got any actual data about that? And that article you ignored also showed how excess deaths this year are *not* classified as covid-19, which suggests the data may actually go the opposite way you suggest, once everything is accounted for.

Lol and you're reducing the difference between 85K/2 months and avg48k/yr, which is:

Flu: 4K/mo
covid-19: 42K/mo

to "greater than 1." 10x the deaths per month to you is "more or less, the same amount of deaths." I'll bet if you got a 10X increase in pay, you might not classify that as "more or less" the same.



...and you're off to a different argument, have fun moving those goalposts!
Maybe because he's at high risk from Covid, and despite the ignorant posts above, it's really a "thing"...

Again, this is not some conspiracy to keep us locked up.... this is a REAL disease killing REAL people. I've lost colleagues and a relative... it wasn't fake...

The curve MIGHT have flattened - a bit - we don't have enough information to really know yet... we'll find out in the weeks and months to come.

Death rates from the Flu, by the way, are far less than Covid (as a previous poster already posted) - but I bet the MILLIONS of people who died of it back after the First World War would have wished for the measures we've put in place now...

Covid will always be with us - but hopefully we'll be able to treat it effectively and it will be even less "serious" than the Flu.... but we won't know for awhile, and it's foolish to pretend otherwise and just say "it's all fine, open everything up".
@Lew Zealand,

You call it moving goal posts. I call it bringing more context into the conversation. You posted one link to a NY times article. But completely disregarded my comments about YouTube and Facebook censoring other data that bring a larger view of the virus into the picture. How is that good?

Who in this thread suggested that 1) the virus wasn't real? or that 2) it wasn't killing real people? Point that post out because I want to respond to that person directly. I don't see those type of comments anywhere in this thread that reflect anything of that nature though so I'm very very confused by your post.

Covid will always be with us? Wow. Along with a quadrillion x a quadrillion other viruses that are constantly mutating. Did you have a point you wanted us to all understand with that comment?
 
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Squid Surprise

Posts: 3,152   +2,057
Who in this thread suggested that 1) the virus wasn't real? or that 2) it wasn't killing real people? Point that post out because I want to respond to that person directly. I don't see those type of comments anywhere in this thread that reflect anything of that nature though so I'm very very confused by your post.

Covid will always be with us? Wow. Along with a quadrillion x a quadrillion other viruses that are constantly mutating. Did you have a point you wanted us to all understand with that comment?
You... post #21....here's the offending lines :)
___________________
The only pandemic I am aware of is the one created, exaggerated and propped up by the government and the media 24/7 so that new laws can be passed quickly under the guise of a pandemic. And what do most of these new laws do that are being touted as requirements to protect us? Steal freedoms, liberties, privacy. That's it. People have been conditioned to fear germs. People have been conditioned to fear going outside.
____________________

That's the nonsense I (and others) are arguing against.
You state that this is over-exaggerated - when all evidence points the other way.
You have posted ZERO evidence to prove this very dangerous point.

If people believed what you were saying (and sadly, many do), they will feel free to flout the rules, go outside - and infect tons of people as well as get infected themselves - costing more lives.

So maybe think before you post next time.
 

TheBigFatClown

Posts: 780   +297
You... post #21....here's the offending lines :)
___________________
The only pandemic I am aware of is the one created, exaggerated and propped up by the government and the media 24/7 so that new laws can be passed quickly under the guise of a pandemic. And what do most of these new laws do that are being touted as requirements to protect us? Steal freedoms, liberties, privacy. That's it. People have been conditioned to fear germs. People have been conditioned to fear going outside.
____________________

That's the nonsense I (and others) are arguing against.
You state that this is over-exaggerated - when all evidence points the other way.
You have posted ZERO evidence to prove this very dangerous point.

If people believed what you were saying (and sadly, many do), they will feel free to flout the rules, go outside - and infect tons of people as well as get infected themselves - costing more lives.

So maybe think before you post next time.
Okay, I'm glad we cleared that up. I did NOT state that 1) the virus isn't real or that 2) no one is dying from this year's mutated corona virus flu strain as you masterfully suggested by twisting my words in your previous post.



News flash for you. Infections don't equate to deaths. Infections in healthy people equate to natural lifetime herd immunity. This would have all been achieved by now except for the new procedures restricting healthy interactions between the population. For some reason, somebody decided to come up with new rules for the year 2020. And what time in any past pandemic was it suggested that we are all to hide under rocks in our homes from a virus where the death rate in healthy people is less than 1%? You quarantine sick people. You do NOT quarantine healthy people.

Your way more dangerous than I am. You would give up all your liberties, your freedoms, your rights as an individual to your government because you live in perpetual fear of a mutated corona virus flu strain that has been around since the 70's. Line up little brother, your yearly vaccines are coming.
 
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Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,405   +1,378
TechSpot Elite
@Lew Zealand,
You call it moving goal posts. I call it bringing more context into the conversation. You posted one link to a NY times article. But completely disregarded my comments about YouTube and Facebook censoring other data that bring a larger view of the virus into the picture. How is that good?
When you make a claim and someone addresses it and then you don't acknowledge that but instead move to a new angle, legitimate or not, that's moving the goalposts.
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,405   +1,378
TechSpot Elite
Infections in healthy people equate to natural lifetime herd immunity. This would have all been achieved by now except for the new procedures restricting healthy interactions between the population. For some reason, somebody decided to come up with new rules for the year 2020. And what time in any past pandemic was it suggested that we are all to hide under rocks in our homes from a virus where the death rate in healthy people is less 1%? You quarantine sick people. You do NOT quarantine healthy people.
First sentence is wrong. Otherwise you wouldn't get colds every year. Or need Tetanus boosters. Or get Shingles after getting Chicken Pox. The list goes on and on. Are these somehow new rules? You don't know the epidemiology of covid-19 any more than the average person.

It makes more sense for the people who do epidemiology for a living determine that instead of what random people on the internet claim.
 

TheBigFatClown

Posts: 780   +297
First sentence is wrong. Otherwise you wouldn't get colds every year. Or need Tetanus boosters. Or get Shingles after getting Chicken Pox. The list goes on and on. Are these somehow new rules? You don't know the epidemiology of covid-19 any more than the average person.

It makes more sense for the people who do epidemiology for a living determine that instead of what random people on the internet claim.
There are a quadrillion x quadrillion viruses on planet Earth. So you're right, your first sentence is wrong. It's actually quite ridiculous.

You wanna leave it up to the epidemiologist? Okay, if you say so.

Let's Listen to the Epidemiologists
 

Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,405   +1,378
TechSpot Elite
Lulz, once again I address your point directly with evidence and once again, you avoid mine. No surprise.

And Sweden has the highest rate of covid-19 infections and deaths of the 3 Nordic nations. It was a great, independent test and showed that lockdowns can curb the spread of the disease.

Swe - 2830 cases/1M pop, 349 deaths/1M pop
Nor - 1512 cases/1M pop, 143 deaths/1M pop
Fin - 1109 cases/1M pop, 52 deaths/1M pop

Raw numbers:
Swe 28.5K cases, 3.5K deaths
Nor - 8.2K cases, 0.2K deaths
Fin - 6.1K cases, 0.3K deaths
 

TheBigFatClown

Posts: 780   +297
Lulz, once again I address your point directly with evidence and once again, you avoid mine. No surprise.

And Sweden has the highest rate of covid-19 infections and deaths of the 3 Nordic nations. It was a great, independent test and showed that lockdowns can curb the spread of the disease.

Swe - 2830 cases/1M pop, 349 deaths/1M pop
Nor - 1512 cases/1M pop, 143 deaths/1M pop
Fin - 1109 cases/1M pop, 52 deaths/1M pop

Raw numbers:
Swe 28.5K cases, 3.5K deaths
Nor - 8.2K cases, 0.2K deaths
Fin - 6.1K cases, 0.3K deaths
Let me see if I can put your numbers in perspective just a wee bit for all of us:
mortality rate
Swe - 2830 cases/1M pop, 349 deaths/1M pop = .000349 %
Nor - 1512 cases/1M pop, 143 deaths/1M pop = .000143 %
Fin - 1109 cases/1M pop, 52 deaths/1M pop = .000052 %

There, fixed. Yep, you are a truth teller sir. Get your electron scanning microscopes out people so you can actually see the difference between the two systems of lockdown. Sweden's death rate is just abysmal when compared to the other 2 nations that engaged in lockdown. And let's just forget about all the economic devastation, all the suicides, all the depression, all hunger, that lockdown has caused for other people. Because, well, those people don't really matter.
 
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Lew Zealand

Posts: 1,405   +1,378
TechSpot Elite
Let me see if I can put your numbers in perspective just a wee bit for all of us:
mortality rate
Swe - 2830 cases/1M pop, 349 deaths/1M pop = .000349 %
Nor - 1512 cases/1M pop, 143 deaths/1M pop = .000143 %
Fin - 1109 cases/1M pop, 52 deaths/1M pop = .000052 %

There, fixed. Yep, you are a truth teller sir. Get your electron scanning microscopes out people so you can actually see the difference between the two systems of lockdown. Sweden's death rate is just abysmal when compared to the other 2 nations that engaged in lockdown. And let's just forget about all the economic devastation, all the suicides, all the depression, all hunger, that lockdown has caused for other people. Because, well, those people don't really matter.
OK, 3500 dead people in Sweden is acceptable to you. A real number. Show me the numbers for "all the suicides, all the depression, all hunger." Please explain where an appropriate tradeoff between those numbers and deaths is.
 

Danny101

Posts: 1,318   +526
The Patriot Act hasn't solved the very problem it was said to be designed to solve, but only codified the surveillance state. In fact the problem increased. The state needed the Patriot Act solve a workaround for the Constitutional protections for itself. What used to be considered abuse is just another day at the office. Move along! Nothing to see here! Unless it's your personal life and don't it dare threaten the cultists in charge. No doubt it may have campaign implications. One statist party for another statist party, but under the guise of Left versus right, a shell game. The only Left versus Right that truly exist is their power versus your freedom.The Constitution only gets a historical nod and is on a walk-a-bout while it's continually ignored, How long will the people continually accepting this encroachment before they are no longer able to revolt? While we're having a discussion, it seems that's all it'll ever be. Throw the hands in the air and shrug. If you you think these politicians care, you are mistaken. They got theirs and their plush hideaways and out of view. It's the perks of office. Who are the Patriots under the Patriot Act and who are they patriotic to? It doesn't appear to be anyone who actually cares about the Constitution. All the world is a stage. Congratulations sheep, you're not getting paid to be on it. You're paying them to put you on it, and they better be happy with your performance, or else! Are you happy? You're slavery is at hand.
 
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PEnnn

Posts: 397   +328
The Senate is lib/dem controlled. No doubt this would have gone through. More government control!
Your ignorance is breathtaking!! The Republicans control the Senate!!!
Do you wish to confirm that "More government control!" statement??

And if you think Republicans love your privacy, you haven't been paying attention, which doesn't surprise me.