The Cornerplay: Xbox One's struggles are traceable to one bad decision

EEatGDL

Posts: 767   +493
It sounds like the author is saying that because the xb1 is and sounds less powerful, it has already failed.......
Did he pay attention to last gen with the 360 and ps3?

Did you pay attention to the whole article? He did mentioned them and stated the main difference between that scenario and this scenario.
 

m4a4

Posts: 2,662   +3,323
TechSpot Elite
It sounds like the author is saying that because the xb1 is and sounds less powerful, it has already failed.......
Did he pay attention to last gen with the 360 and ps3?

Did you pay attention to the whole article? He did mentioned them and stated the main difference between that scenario and this scenario.
I started skimming after he mentioned "That's how thin the line is between success and failure in the console market" even though they've only been out for close to a year.

But in the end I think it's more about games. The WiiU is pretty cheap compared to these, but it's not doing the best because it is cheap and less powerful...
 

GhostRyder

Posts: 2,151   +588
I think Ghost Ryder signed out and posted as Guest. I kid, I kid.
Wow almost a clever joke, I think the rest of what you post is plenty funny and you should stick with that.

While the author makes a convincing argument, most gamers don't care about the power of the machine. What killed Microsoft is easily traceable to the boneheaded decision to pack a useless peripheral with the system, lie about it being necessary to operate the system, and charge a $100 premium right when Sony decided otherwise and charged $100 less for the system. The PS4 having slightly more power than Xbone is just gravy.

MS has to lower the price because it is not moving as many systems as it thought it could. If it dropped the price any lower it would sign the death warrant for Xbox One. And I don't want it to because I still need to get to Generation 10 in Titanfall.
$100 bucks for more features, Kinect, a better cooling console that is also more silent. Yea it is a poor deal...It could also have something to do with the fact that PS4 released in more than double the areas Xbox ONE did.

You're wrong, but I appreciate your candor. The perception of GDDR5 RAM is unwaining. Most don't understand that its glorified DDR3 RAM making it equivalent to the DDR3 RAM in the XBox One. Most don't understand that the G stands for Graphics, but it is used for all CPU processes as well. Most do not understand that THERE IS NO dedicated graphics RAM in the PS4 and that is why it is not capable of 4K gaming while the XBox One is. If I had to say anything, I would say that Microsoft is taking it easy on Sony because Sony is going belly up. Like they did with Apple when it went belly up. Microsoft enjoys competition. It makes it a better company. But as for thier choices, it was to create a new XBox 360 at the same time they released the XBox One. Thats the only reason XBox One sales are not at pace with PS4. The bottom line is that the division for XBox profit is $475 million, and Sony's profit for the Playstation Division is $47 million. Microsoft has reigned supreme once again. And Sony is barely staying in business because Microsoft isn't exposing the weak hardware that Sony is portraying as superior.
First of all neither console is going to be a 4K gamer, most likely they will just upscale to it and that's it. Next GDDR5 is much faster than DDR3 which will give better graphical performance when sharing ram as APU's (Which the consoles essentially use) have shown the higher the ram speed the better the GPU performs. The rest I feel needs no response because its just foolish altogether and I cannot tell if its an intentional troll or not.

It sounds like the author is saying that because the xb1 is and sounds less powerful, it has already failed.......
Did he pay attention to last gen with the 360 and ps3?
Well either way the consoles have already sold better than any console in history so I would not worry either way.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,190   +4,057
TechSpot Elite
$100 bucks for more features, Kinect, a better cooling console that is also more silent. Yea it is a poor deal...It could also have something to do with the fact that PS4 released in more than double the areas Xbox ONE did.
I have to disagree on the cooling noise. the PS4 is just 1 dB loader than the xbox one (1-3 meters away from the consoles). It's also cooler when running games, but hotter when running a Blu-Ray movie.
the xbox one has around 10-15W less energy consumption while running games, but uses 6W more in standby mode.
and the most important aspect is that the PS4 does all this with no external power brick while also being much smaller. the design is very important in my opinion.
as for the 100$ features, those are very hit or miss. very subjective. I personally do not like kinect, but I see why people would want one. as for TV you would still have to use the box the cable provider gives you. I don't have any reliable information on it, I just know that OneGuide doesn't work here.
 

cmbjive

Posts: 777   +139
"$100 bucks for more features, Kinect, a better cooling console that is also more silent. Yea it is a poor deal...It could also have something to do with the fact that PS4 released in more than double the areas Xbox ONE did."

I don't know what you're talking about with the cooling aspect of each console. Both perform remarkably well in that regard. Neither are like my PS3 which makes an obnoxious whirring sound after only thirty minutes of use (no, I don't intend to get it fixed since I hardly play on the PS3 anymore).

I'm pretty sure that both systems could have launched at the same time and in the same areas and the PS4 still would have beaten the Xbone. Since the systems are virtually the same in performance sans what the author of this article is saying, the only differentiation between both systems was price. A home console that is $100 cheaper speaks volumes.

But I'm glad you can take a joke.
 

gingerbill

Posts: 233   +59
I had an xbox 360 , loved it and planned to but an xbox one and didn't even consider a PS4 , Then they forced Kinect on you and I started to waiver , then it turned out the PS4 was simply more powerful and cost less. So I bought a PS4 , I had no choice really , only a fool would knowingly buy a more expensive less powerful console.
 

GhostRyder

Posts: 2,151   +588
I have to disagree on the cooling noise. the PS4 is just 1 dB loader than the xbox one (1-3 meters away from the consoles). It's also cooler when running games, but hotter when running a Blu-Ray movie.
the xbox one has around 10-15W less energy consumption while running games, but uses 6W more in standby mode.
and the most important aspect is that the PS4 does all this with no external power brick while also being much smaller. the design is very important in my opinion.
as for the 100$ features, those are very hit or miss. very subjective. I personally do not like kinect, but I see why people would want one. as for TV you would still have to use the box the cable provider gives you. I don't have any reliable information on it, I just know that OneGuide doesn't work here.
Well my PS4 is actually noticeable when running just Last of Us (Remastered) than my Xbox ONE is playing any game. Mine reads the channels or has picked up my area (I cannot remember if I had to do anything) but it displays what channels and whats on in the guide. The power usage aspect is true on both ends of the spectrum but its so small for both neither really count as heavy hitters on your electric bill. The external power brick is just as it is, PS4 chose an internal like they have previously on each generation (I think at least, I cannot remember one having a power brick off the top of my head) but to me that can be a good thing for looks or a bad thing for reliability because if for say something like that went bad then your whole console is shot vs the Xbox just needing a new one.

"$100 bucks for more features, Kinect, a better cooling console that is also more silent. Yea it is a poor deal...It could also have something to do with the fact that PS4 released in more than double the areas Xbox ONE did."

I don't know what you're talking about with the cooling aspect of each console. Both perform remarkably well in that regard. Neither are like my PS3 which makes an obnoxious whirring sound after only thirty minutes of use (no, I don't intend to get it fixed since I hardly play on the PS3 anymore).
Well my Xbox stays very quiet even under load and pumps out heat very well versus my PS4 which seems to spin its fans up pumping out vast amounts of heat at the rear. They chose a very poor cooling choice by making a lack of air inputs and focusing more on just exhaust (Similar to earlier Xbox 360) which could lead to problems down the line (only an assumption based on past experiences).

I'm pretty sure that both systems could have launched at the same time and in the same areas and the PS4 still would have beaten the Xbone. Since the systems are virtually the same in performance sans what the author of this article is saying, the only differentiation between both systems was price. A home console that is $100 cheaper speaks volumes.
That an assumption and honestly either way we could argue that back and fourth to no avail but the fact was that 1 week earlier and in a much more significant amount of areas tends to give a wider variety of people to sell something especially concerning if some people were going off of only buying one or the other.

But I'm glad you can take a joke.
Well comments are comments and should not effect someone either way as they are words on a screen.

It should not matter either way, Microsoft made some bad choices on the console but its still significantly more powerful than its predecessor same with PS4. The fact is we are also so early into the life cycle and making judgment's that could or could not come true in the future. Early in any console cycle graphics have always been mediocre compared to later years even as far back as the Atari 2600 (Which were very simple back then). Even with something being just like a PC now, its still a learning curve especially considering they are working with 8 core CPU's, eSRAM, GDDR5, and the cloud which means things only will get better. Once they get their engines configured well and they start to understand the limits and what not they will start getting up to 900p-1080p constantly with graphics and AI to put everything in the past to shame. Basing everything off of the first year is not a representation of what will happen 4+ years down the road.
 
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Matt12345170

Posts: 117   +53
Apparently the author of this article doesn't know the difference between console and PC gamers. 99.99% of people who buy consoles don't know and don't care what DDR3/5 is and at how MHz they run, all they care about is games.

You'd think so, but my friend (who is an avid pc gamer and a firm believer in the PC Master Race), strategized his purchase of a PS4 for 6 weeks after launch just so he could make doubly sure that he was purchasing the next best thing after his PC.

Exactly, and at the end of the day, its all about the games. Some of which can only be had on a console, and in the eyes of the beholder, can justify the purchase - amongst other things.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,190   +4,057
TechSpot Elite
I agree, it's about the games. It's how it is and should always be. I've been a fan of the Playstation exclusives since I was very young I don't see that changing anytime soon. the controller also feels better in my hand.
But if I had to choose I'll always go with PC games. I'm a really big fan of FPS games and ALL fps games are better with a mouse and keyboard. Counter-strike or Quake are just too good. COD and BF just don't even come close to that fast paced, twitch gameplay that I like.
 

Burty117

Posts: 4,330   +2,422
The external power brick is just as it is, PS4 chose an internal like they have previously on each generation (I think at least, I cannot remember one having a power brick off the top of my head) but to me that can be a good thing for looks or a bad thing for reliability because if for say something like that went bad then your whole console is shot vs the Xbox just needing a new one.
the ps2 slimline and ps1 slimline had external power bricks.
Also the ps4 would be fine if the internal psu died. Just check out videos of people pulling PS4's apart (Sony even did an official breakdown video) the PSU is the entire back part and comes off as one part (it's also why the air round back is hotter than what the Xbox One's is, It's also dispelling the heat for the PSU).
 

GhostRyder

Posts: 2,151   +588
the ps2 slimline and ps1 slimline had external power bricks.
Also the ps4 would be fine if the internal psu died. Just check out videos of people pulling PS4's apart (Sony even did an official breakdown video) the PSU is the entire back part and comes off as one part (it's also why the air round back is hotter than what the Xbox One's is, It's also dispelling the heat for the PSU).
Well that explains that I never owned the slims it was always a fat Playstation and a Playstation 2. But either way a normal user could not replace that easily as they would on an XBOX ONE is what I was getting at. The entire back end having extra heat is still not something I would say is a good thing overall for the console just based on its airflow design. Mine is fine and I am sure everyones is fine but it still worth noting because in the long run that could prove to be something that harms its life expectancy especially with how much these get used in this day and age.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,190   +4,057
TechSpot Elite
Well that explains that I never owned the slims it was always a fat Playstation and a Playstation 2. But either way a normal user could not replace that easily as they would on an XBOX ONE is what I was getting at. The entire back end having extra heat is still not something I would say is a good thing overall for the console just based on its airflow design. Mine is fine and I am sure everyones is fine but it still worth noting because in the long run that could prove to be something that harms its life expectancy especially with how much these get used in this day and age.
I'm sorry! You seem to be a very big expert in airflow design. We won't question your expertise anymore. You are right! The PS4 will overheat if you put in a small wooden box and cover the box completely with several plastic bags (just in case 1 wasn't enough).
 

Bao Nguyen

Posts: 114   +85
I hope those who read the article do not get misled as the author kept on using term like DDR5 instead of GDDR5. That could be a bad decision on Microsoft side to opt for DDR3 instead of GDDR5. But that doesn't mean DDR3 is weaker than GDDR5, they're basically the same kind of memory that just meant to be used for different purpose. While GDDR5 is superior for GPU uses (which explained why PS4 results in better graphic), DDR3 is far superior for CPU applications (which explained why PS4 is lacking media playback functions and XB1 is a better overall machine).

It's all come down to Microsoft decided for XB1 to be able to do it all, while PS4 is a truely dedicated gaming machine.
 

tonylukac

Posts: 1,386   +72
What I think is the problem is that playstation online is free, while xbox gold or whatever microsoft's online is called costs money
 

GhostRyder

Posts: 2,151   +588
I'm sorry! You seem to be a very big expert in airflow design. We won't question your expertise anymore. You are right! The PS4 will overheat if you put in a small wooden box and cover the box completely with several plastic bags (just in case 1 wasn't enough).
Your point? I never said the problem is overheating and more of running hotter causes components to deteriorate faster or can cause things to change internally. The PS4 does not overheat but as in the past with consoles running warm that can make things inside warp or cause issues later on especially when you consider that many consoles are put in small spaces or near walls which the PS4 has only one exhaust out the back and very minimal intakes. Won't cause it to overheat except in extreme situations but it can cause the console to wear out faster but that is also all speculation and nothing more.
What I think is the problem is that playstation online is free, while xbox gold or whatever microsoft's online is called costs money
Not anymore?
 

Nero7

Posts: 498   +236
The weaker hardware on the xbone might really change some plans later on. In the end of each consoles life they came up with games that pushed the consoles to its utter limits. if the xbone reaches that limit much sooner then we're in for a new xbox early I guess.

Best bet for M$ is to bring out phenomenal games now to outclass Sony. Gotta say the Halo remastered collection might just be that. From all the HD re-releases this is probably the finest. So maybe it turns out to be the best thing for gamers. M$ got to make up for its shortcomings, and since they got the money to they may will.

Project Spark may hold great potential. Arguably the best shooters are available for xbone with Halo and exclusive CoD deals + the multi platfrom ones. Their racing games ain't haunted with problems like Driveclub. They got a bunch of strong IPs as well and most once ow so successful playstation exclusive games are now also on xbone. Sunset Overdrive is the new Ratchet & Clank and exclusive to xbone. Fantasia with Kinect is said to be amazing...

I'm much more of a Playstation fan than xbone but I gotta say they ain't in such a bad position.

Right now the weaker hardware doesn't seem to be much of an issue really. The noticeable difference in graphical fidelity between 768p 900p 1080p is so small its almost redundant. I thought that playing games in 4K thanks to DSR on PC might be a huge change but turns out neither was that. Same with the example pictures here, I can barely notice a difference in graphical fidelity.

Just a little theory of mine.
 
Like I thought the whole time: Hardware restriction, then the clear vision of being focused on games. To all the Xbots, not Xbox fans who listen: how come if Microsoft has the money they didn't take bin account they're using cheap ram and a small buffer?
Ppl will say who cares its a console. Well they both are PCs to some degree with their tech. Microsoft sjoulda thought about that, from a tech standpoint. This proves that better hardware gets better results.... And if both were equal, resolugate would be meaning less...
 

Skidmarksdeluxe

Posts: 8,645   +3,289
No matter how you dissect it, both consoles will have a short lifespan. They're both already rocking archaic chipsets. For HTPC's I guess they're fine for now but as far as gaming goes there's is only but only one choice and that's what I'm using right now to post this message and no, it doesn't have 'mobile' in it's description.
 

yukka

Posts: 1,013   +164
I read that microsoft were expecting sony to present a different ram configuration right up to the initial reveals. Like 4gb or DDR3 instead. The 8Gb GDDR5 caught them on the hop.

Personally I am playing a lot of destinyb(or was) on my 360 and was planning to buy an Xbox One at the same time as my mate who also plays but the dlc costing £20 compared to $20 in UK plus Sony receiving 2 additional strikes for the next year in their exclusivity deal with Bungee has put the brakes on it.

We were both just going to play destiny as the digital copies from 360 carry over but now I'm back in no mans land. The Xbox One is weaker graphically and the writer of this article makes some great points.
 
I think the writer of this article has missed one very key point. Microsoft concern about GDDR5 wasn't availability, but the memory limit it put on the system at the time.

In a device like this, unless you're going to use riser cards, the number of RAM modules you can put in is about 16, which both the PS4 and Xbox One have.
At the time the system were being designed the largest module available for GDDR5 was 2Gb, giving a maximum system memory of 4GB (2*16/8).
Microsoft needed 8GB to do what they wanted, Sony were happy with 4GB.
This meant they had to use DDR3, which in turn forced them to use die space for the ESRAM.

Then in early 2013 4Gb GDDR5 modules became available. Moving from 2Gb to 4Gb is an easy change, so Sony did so. For Microsoft to change at this point would have required throwing everything away and starting again, not really an option.

In other words Microsoft's 'mistake' was to want a system with 8GB of RAM.
 
G

Guest

A few times, you say "DDR5" when you mean "GDDR5", they are not the same thing. Could you fix these?

At the time, there were concerns about the availability of DDR5

Microsoft worried it wouldn't be able to secure enough DDR5 supply

Fortunately for Sony, DDR5 supply didn't turn out to be a bottleneck.

Can you imagine if Microsoft had just opted for DDR5 memory?
 
G

Guest

As has been probably stated, this wasn't a simpe DDR3 vs DDR5 decision. The designing of a new console takes a long time and Microsoft wanted to run games, Kinect, the snap features at the same time. All the additional features required something like 3 gigs of RAM, so they had to go with 8 in order to have memory available for the games. This decision was made a long time ago.

Sony opted for DDR5, but for the longest time, people were certain they could only afford 4 gigs. Only at the last moment did the market change and Sony was able to double their memory. By that time, the Xbox architechture was already set. If they had wanted to include 8 gigs of DDR5, they'd have to re-design their whole architechture and probably miss the launch by several months. And that would have been a disaster.
 
A site called techspot says this"If MS had gone with 8 GB ram the hardware would be the same" WHAT??? Embarassing the ps4 has a considerable more powerfull GPU which is the bigger issue, faster ram is the least of x1's issues, faster ram doesn;t make much difference.

Also, when will people stop underestimating playstation?? WW it is dominant, even if Ms had a great launch, and hardware wise was on par ps4 would be winning, it is a stronger brand... Sony dominates Europe, Asia and emerging markets, MS as usual outside the US is weak....

Ps5 GPU, stronger brand are bigger issues not ram. Only reason 360 and ps3 were close was ms had a 1 year head start and sony launched at 600 bucks..