Three Ryzen 7000 X3D CPUs are reportedly on the way, no 6-core variant planned

Daniel Sims

Posts: 763   +31
Staff
Rumor mill: Customers waiting for Zen 4 X3D processors might receive some good news at CES 2023 in January. The latest rumors suggest AMD wants to remove some of the limitations it placed on Zen 3 3D V-Cache, but these reports almost completely contradict earlier ones.

Sources have told Quazar Zone that AMD plans to unveil at least three X3D Zen 4 CPUs at CES in January. Contrary to earlier reports, they will come in eight, 12-, and 16-core models.

The 12- and 16-core X3D processors could be the Ryzen 9 7900X3D and 7950X3D, respectively. Based on the effects 3D V-Cache had on the Zen 3 CPUs, the two high-end processors might feature 192MB of L3 cache. Meanwhile, the eight-core variant could be either a Ryzen 7 7800X3D or 7700X3D with 96MB of L3 cache, similar to this year's well-reviewed 5800X3D. Furthermore, the upcoming X3D models might ditch the 5800X3D's clock limitations.

AMD's 3D V-Cache, which it unveiled last year, uses a 3D stacking technique to triple a CPU's L3 cache. The method gave the 5800X3D significantly better gaming performance than the 5800X by increasing the L3 cache by 200 percent from 32MB to 96MB.

However, AMD slightly downclocked the X3D variant and locked out overclocking. Users waiting for faster, unrestricted V-Cache processors received disappointing rumors last month that AMD might only release a Ryzen 5 7600X3D and Ryzen 7 7700X3D. They would accompany an entry-level A620 AM5 motherboard that would disable overclocking and limit RAM speeds to DDR5-4800.

Instead, the new reports indicate the Zen 4 X3D CPUs will have roughly the same clocks as the non-X3D models and at least partially relax the overclocking restriction. All Zen 4 3D V-Cache processors will have a 170W TDP – just like the 7900X and 7950X. There won't be a 7600X3D.

The Zen 4 X3Ds will launch sometime after the CES unveiling, but it isn't clear when. Earlier rumors pinned the release around March or April 2023, but that could be up in the air if the rest of the old information is inaccurate. AMD likely hopes V-Cache will strengthen Zen 4's initially weak sales compared to the still-popular Zen 3.

Meanwhile, competitor Intel plans to refresh its 13th-generation Raptor Lake CPUs in Q3 2023 while delaying its 14th-gen Meteor Lake to 2024.

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yRaz

Posts: 4,984   +6,471
It would be silly for them not add 3d v-cache to the 12 and 16 core CPU's, it would give them the productivity crown. It would also essentially be a replacement for the old threadripper. AM5 could essentially be a low end system all the way up to a "pro-sumer"(I hate that term) workstation and leaving Threadripper pro for the, well, professional market. Although, I would them rather not keep the Threadripper pro name because that would suggest there is a Semi-pro Threadripper and Amatuer Threadripper.
 

samlebon2306

Posts: 19   +24
It would be silly for them not add 3d v-cache to the 12 and 16 core CPU's, it would give them the productivity crown. It would also essentially be a replacement for the old threadripper. AM5 could essentially be a low end system all the way up to a "pro-sumer"(I hate that term) workstation and leaving Threadripper pro for the, well, professional market. Although, I would them rather not keep the Threadripper pro name because that would suggest there is a Semi-pro Threadripper and Amatuer Threadripper.

""pro-sumer"(I hate that term) "better term is 'poor-sumer'; customers who cannot afford Pro products.
 

tellmewhy

Posts: 231   +127
Hopefully they will also have rdna3 cores, instead of rdna2. I can't understand why they put in rdna2 when they had the new and better rdna3.
 

neeyik

Posts: 2,431   +3,000
Staff member
It would be silly for them not add 3d v-cache to the 12 and 16 core CPU's, it would give them the productivity crown
Perhaps not - after all, the 5800X3D was no better or worse than the 5800X in productivity benchmarks. If AMD can retain the original clock speeds of the models they plan to add additional cache too, then maybe all will be well. Either way, Steve's got a lot more testing coming his way :)

I can't understand why they put in rdna2 when they had the new and better rdna3.
RDNA 3 is designed to be manufactured using TSMC's N5 node, where the I/O chiplet in Zen 4 CPUs is N6, which is quite different. Also, the fundamental parts (e.g. shader cores) in RDNA 3 are considerably larger than those in RDNA 2, so it would only make the I/O chiplet a lot bigger, for virtually no gains. Don't forget that AMD didn't add a GPU to that chiplet for gaming -- it's literally there to produce a desktop and display basic video streams, that's all.

It's also worth noting that their CPU division is much larger than their GPU one -- it generates far more revenue, for a start, so design choices for CPUs tends to lead those in GPUs. That's why they used the GCN architecture in their APUs for so long; RDNA 2 wasn't introduced into them until Jan 2022.
 
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yRaz

Posts: 4,984   +6,471
Perhaps not - after all, the 5800X3D was no better or worse than the 5800X in productivity benchmarks. If AMD can retain the original clock speeds of the models they plan to add additional cache too, then maybe all will be well. Either way, Steve's got a lot more testing coming his way :)
I had forgot that adding cache did basically nothing for the 5800X3D in productivity. Perhaps they'll fill a niche for people who want a Gaming first hybrid PC?

Now that you point that out, unless something has changed between the V-Cache on the 5000 and 7000 series then it makes little sense for them to NOT make a 7600X3D to compete with the i5-13600k in gaming. The 7700X already costs more and performs slightly worse. I have my own reasons for going AM5, but on price alone the 13600k is the obvious winner.
 

sreams

Posts: 371   +532
I had forgot that adding cache did basically nothing for the 5800X3D in productivity. Perhaps they'll fill a niche for people who want a Gaming first hybrid PC?

Now that you point that out, unless something has changed between the V-Cache on the 5000 and 7000 series then it makes little sense for them to NOT make a 7600X3D to compete with the i5-13600k in gaming. The 7700X already costs more and performs slightly worse. I have my own reasons for going AM5, but on price alone the 13600k is the obvious winner.

3D V-Cache seems to mostly benefit realtime processes. So offline stuff (most productivity software) doesn't typically benefit. But some does (real time audio, video editing previews, etc.).
 

kiwigraeme

Posts: 1,403   +1,040
""pro-sumer"(I hate that term) "better term is 'poor-sumer'; customers who cannot afford Pro products.

In cameras it meant to me - nearly all cutting edge tech + some consumer friendly modes.

But not the day in day quality of Pro model - 100% view, water and dust proof , titanium chassis , more powerful drive motor with better memory ( so faster to AF, more fps , longer burst ) etc
However most consumers did not need these monsters -due to weight etc

Lot's of this doesn't apply to chips - as different purposes - plus both can go 24/7

Nikon was silly thinking eye focus was consumer for awhile - when shooting people nearly unless atmospheric- you need 1 eye in focus.

Thinking about it - having a consumer PC case - with SSD/spinning rust hot drive slots - would be cool - back ups - easier to move between PCs - we all have old hard drives laying around stacked in cupboards .
Do have a SSD external enclosure - must be ones for spinning ones - will check it out - as wife wants some horsey photos on some old drive - not sure which.

Just checked $25 down the road - actually is on a pata drive probably - so will have to boot old PC
 

QuaZulu

Posts: 132   +109
TechSpot Elite
Man, imo, AMD needs to work on its naming conventions. Not easy to discern at a glance the difference between, say, 7900XTX and 7900X3D. Even adding, "Well, one is RX and the other is Ryzen" doesn't clear things up for many.
 

yRaz

Posts: 4,984   +6,471
Man, imo, AMD needs to work on its naming conventions. Not easy to discern at a glance the difference between, say, 7900XTX and 7900X3D. Even adding, "Well, one is RX and the other is Ryzen" doesn't clear things up for many.
I was thinking they skipped the 6000 series of CPUs just so they could have 7000 series GPUs and CPUs at the same time
 

Mr Majestyk

Posts: 1,574   +1,484
LOL last week only an 8 core and 6 core variant were coming. Now we are back to 16, 12 and 8 cores, but no 6 core. You tech sites really should get you facts straight before posting stories.

Anyway IMO AMD are morons for not doing a 6 core version at $329 max.
 

Mr Majestyk

Posts: 1,574   +1,484
If they release a 7950X3D, I am sold.

So you don't just game clearly. Are aware of what productivity software will benefit from v-cache. I have seen server tests of Milan-X showing some huge uplifts in software, but most is server related naturally. Only one I saw of interest to me was OpenFOAM fluid sim. Currently 13900K kills 7950X in a lot of important software I use, so v-cache would need to bring big improvements outside of gaming. Zen 4 is already excellent in gaming and hardly needs a boost, but those Intel core counts are killing it for multi-threaded apps. I'm leaning towards 13700K rather than 7900X. AMD will no doubt add another $100 on the 7900X3D meaning in Australia it would be about $400-500 dearer, enough to pay for motherboard and a stick of memory.
 

Julnor

Posts: 78   +88
No six core varient? Why is everyone withholding next gen tech from budget and mid range users?

That's a good question, they certainly don't seem to want to cater to the traditionally largest consumer base. Have they really found a sustainable business model of just selling these higher margin, mostly useless for gaming, hardware components? Financial reports indicate lowered guidance and revenues, so it seems like no but, they seem to be set on it.

I suppose if people jumped back onto console, and the PC component sector took massive downfalls for a couple of consecutive quarters they'd start to readjust down to normal, but that will probably still be a good half year or so away.
 

Puiu

Posts: 5,959   +5,006
TechSpot Elite
No six core varient? Why is everyone withholding next gen tech from budget and mid range users?
We don't know that for sure yet. There could be a 6 core variant in the works too, but not launching first.

I'm also going to assume that the extra cost could make it a less appealing option compared to what is on the market right now.
 

Aranarth

Posts: 148   +146
Hopefully they will also have rdna3 cores, instead of rdna2. I can't understand why they put in rdna2 when they had the new and better rdna3.
These are NOT APU's.

APU's will have RDNA 3.

The TINY little graphics chip on these processors are for 2d and productivity work only.
If you want a cpu with a decent graphics chip built in you want the APU version of these chips which are coming next year.
 

Aranarth

Posts: 148   +146
Man, imo, AMD needs to work on its naming conventions. Not easy to discern at a glance the difference between, say, 7900XTX and 7900X3D. Even adding, "Well, one is RX and the other is Ryzen" doesn't clear things up for many.
Both are ryzen one has a stacked or "3D" cache chip stacked on top of the processor to give it more cache.
It has nothing to do with graphics.
 

Avro Arrow

Posts: 3,396   +4,411
I really don't get why AMD is doing this. The 3D cache has shown that it has little to no positive effect on productivity but a profoundly positive effect on gaming latency. I can't fathom a reason why AMD would EVER put the 3D cache in a 12-core CPU, let alone a 16-core while not putting it into a 6-core CPU.

This is worse than useless because AMD is investing money in producing chips that won't sell. Productivity users won't pay the extra for the 3D cache because they'll see no benefit from it. Gamers don't need more than six cores so many of them won't bother paying extra for the 12 or 16 cores. Sure, many of them will buy the 8-core variant but I expect NOBODY to buy the 12 or 16-core variants. No X3D CPU should have more than 8 cores. The 8-core variant should be the upper limit for core counts when it comes to X3D CPUs.

If AMD focused on 6-core 3D CPUs, they could make so many more of them and they'd sell them as fast as TSMC could produce them. Also, with only six cores, clock speeds would be less affected by the 3D cache making them even more attractive to gamers.

The only X3D CPU that will sell will be the 8-core but even that won't sell nearly as well as a 6-core X3D CPU would have. This annoys the hell out of me because the only way to get this market balanced again is for AMD to outsell Intel by a large margin and AMD is just snatching defeat from the jaws of victory here.

This is one of the worst marketing and production decisions that I've ever seen a semiconductor company make. AMD is just being plain stupid here.