Top 5 Intel Z490 Motherboards: 10th-gen Intel Core Platform

[neeyik]

Good theory. But fact is that Coffee Lake CPU's run fine on Skylake/Kaby Lake motherboards https://www.extremetech.com/computi...00k-might-run-just-fine-on-older-motherboards

Even 9900K runs fine on Z170

Note in the video that in certain Z170 boards, HT doesn't function, so it's not a perfect situation, but yes - Intel doesn't really need to be changing the chipset+CPU combinations so often.

But the query was about the new 10th gen, LGA1200 change. The obvious issue with fewer Vcc pins from which to draw operating current, a higher power consuming CPU will be pulling more current through each pin. Coffee Lake processors have 146 Vcc pins compared to 128 in Kaby Lake. This a CL chip in a KL socket will be drawing 14% more current through each pin, which equates to roughly 0.19A extra (in a worse case situation, I.e. max Icc draw). That's not a huge increase, and shouldn't generate any ill effects, as alluded to in the Extremetech article.

However, the i9-9900K's PL2 TDP is 180W, whereas as the i9-10900K's is 250W. There's no pin datasheet for the S-series 10th gen processors yet, so I don't know how many Vcc pins the 10900K has, but let's assume it has increased from Coffee Lake to Comet Lake by the same jump as with Kaby Lake to Coffee Lake. The higher PL2 TDP would result increase the extra pin current draw by 38%, which is significantly more than 14%.

That's probably too much of an increase for comfort, so even accounting for Intel's predilection for squeezing PC enthusiast's wallets dry, they probably did have their hands forced somewhat (with regards to a socket change) for the 10900K (just not for any of the other 10th gen CPUs).

 

[MaxSmarties]

Lol ... Z370 is outdated because of PCI Express 4.0 ... I think it is a waste of time this discussion.
there is a reality distortion field in action here, casting a red light all over.

 

[Strawman]

Lol ... Z370 is outdated because of PCI Express 4.0 ... I think it is a waste of time this discussion.
there is a reality distortion field in action here, casting a red light all over.

X370 doesn't have PCIE 4 either though.

 

[HardReset]

But I didnt mention games or single core turbo. YOU said that in order for an upgrade to be worth it there needs to be at least a 50% increase in performance. You also said that Intel never had a a worthwhile cpu upgrade. Well, there is a 100% increase in performance between the 8600k and the 9900k so you were wrong. Period

And beucase you were proven wrong, you now started changing your argument talking about motherboards etc. Which is irrelevant to your original point

Pretty good misunderstanding. You do realize that even without releasing any new products, there are almost always "worthwhile upgrade paths". Just take slowest processor from released ones and fastest is probably fast enough to warrant upgrade.

You did realize I took Top model from Zen+ and compared it to Top model of Zen2. Likewise I took Top model from 8000-series and compared it to top model of 9000-series. Because, as I already said, taking slow enough CPU means there are "valid" upgrade paths even without releasing any new CPU.

Just then, who takes 50 dollar CPU and later upgrades it to 500+ dollar CPU?

No it's not barely 50% faster, it's actually 100% faster. Check cinebench scores. But doesn't matter, since 50% is the bare minimum, then Intel did offer a worthwhile upgrade, so you were wrong for saying otherwise.

It didn't because comparison should be top of 8000-series against top of 9000- series. Just like on AMD: 2700+ vs 3950X.

And the x370 has bad memory support. Doesn't matter though. In your hypothetical the person already has the z370, he's not going to buy it new. Also, the z370 performs better with read / writes than the x370, so your wired to the m2 is irrelevant when it actually performs worse

Who cares? My x370 platform has dedicated NVMe lane to SSD. Z370 does not. What this mean is that on Z370 that NVMe SSD is competing with LAN, SSD, USB, audio etc. So AMD solution is miles better.

Note in the video that in certain Z170 boards, HT doesn't function, so it's not a perfect situation, but yes - Intel doesn't really need to be changing the chipset+CPU combinations so often.

But the query was about the new 10th gen, LGA1200 change. The obvious issue with fewer Vcc pins from which to draw operating current, a higher power consuming CPU will be pulling more current through each pin. Coffee Lake processors have 146 Vcc pins compared to 128 in Kaby Lake. This a CL chip in a KL socket will be drawing 14% more current through each pin, which equates to roughly 0.19A extra (in a worse case situation, I.e. max Icc draw). That's not a huge increase, and shouldn't generate any ill effects, as alluded to in the Extremetech article.

However, the i9-9900K's PL2 TDP is 180W, whereas as the i9-10900K's is 250W. There's no pin datasheet for the S-series 10th gen processors yet, so I don't know how many Vcc pins the 10900K has, but let's assume it has increased from Coffee Lake to Comet Lake by the same jump as with Kaby Lake to Coffee Lake. The higher PL2 TDP would result increase the extra pin current draw by 38%, which is significantly more than 14%.

That's probably too much of an increase for comfort, so even accounting for Intel's predilection for squeezing PC enthusiast's wallets dry, they probably did have their hands forced somewhat (with regards to a socket change) for the 10900K (just not for any of the other 10th gen CPUs).

Yeah well, that sounds "good" when we consider LGA1151 vs LGA1151 v2. But when Intel already stepped away from LGA1151, why they couldn't switch into socket that is good enough for 10900K?

 

[MaxSmarties]

X370 doesn't have PCIE 4 either though.

PCIE 4 won't be relevant for a couple other years at least.
It can't be a factor to define a chipset as outdated or not.

 

[HardReset]

Lol ... Z370 is outdated because of PCI Express 4.0 ... I think it is a waste of time this discussion.
there is a reality distortion field in action here, casting a red light all over.

Exactly, first try to read everything, not just small parts from somewhere.

X370 doesn't have PCIE 4 either though.

That's what I said. However it still has 24 PCIe lanes from CPU.

What is main difference between LGA115X and 12xx platforms compared to HEDT platforms (LGA2011 etc). HEDT platforms have MORE than 20 PCIe lanes from CPU.

And AMD has 24.

PCIE 4 won't be relevant for a couple other years at least.
It can't be a factor to define a chipset as outdated or not.

You do realize Intel tried to put PCIe 4.0 support into Z490? They just failed. So even Intel agrees that PCIe 4.0 support is modern (and so sticking with just 3.0 is not). Combining it with more than 20 PCIe lanes from CPU, together those two thins are more than enough to make Z490 outdated.

 

[neeyik]

Yeah well, that sounds "good" when we consider LGA1151 vs LGA1151 v2. But when Intel already stepped away from LGA1151, why they couldn't switch into socket that is good enough for 10900K?

Almost certainly a high level marketing decision, based on details from engineers, who possibly just don't think the next, much larger, socket is ready for general distribution yet. 10th gen, while good products in their own right, simply don't bring anything new to the plate - with the exception of the price cuts, and that's entirely thanks to the competition, of course. What's the best way to make some look new? Change everything all around it, I.e. the socket and chipset.

 

[MaxSmarties]

You do realize Intel tried to put PCIe 4.0 support into Z490? They just failed. So even Intel agrees that PCIe 4.0 support is modern (and so sticking with just 3.0 is not). Combining it with more than 20 PCIe lanes from CPU, together those two thins are more than enough to make Z490 outdated.

So now even Z490 is outdated.
Lol... even better.

 

[HardReset]

So now even Z490 is outdated.
Lol... even better.

Of course it is. Facts don't lie. It's outdated even when comparing 2017 x370. And x570...

Intel is selling old stuff. Release date etc has nothing to do with this.

 

[Strawman]

Pretty good misunderstanding. You do realize that even without releasing any new products, there are almost always "worthwhile upgrade paths". Just take slowest processor from released ones and fastest is probably fast enough to warrant upgrade.

You did realize I took Top model from Zen+ and compared it to Top model of Zen2. Likewise I took Top model from 8000-series and compared it to top model of 9000-series. Because, as I already said, taking slow enough CPU means there are "valid" upgrade paths even without releasing any new CPU.

Just then, who takes 50 dollar CPU and later upgrades it to 500+ dollar CPU?

EXACTLY, who buys 50$CPU and later upgrades to 750+ dollar CPU? That's why your original argument is WRONG, since you were comparing a 2700x to a 3950x There is a bigger price difference between 3950x and 2700x than 9900k to 8600k, therefore if anything, your own example was worse than mine

It didn't because comparison should be top of 8000-series against top of 9000- series. Just like on AMD: 2700+ vs 3950X.

Uhm, no, who buys a 300€ CPU and then upgrades to a 750€ CPU? Wasn't that what you just said in the previous paragraph ? The equivalent of the 2700x is the 3700x, not the 3950x.

Who cares? My x370 platform has dedicated NVMe lane to SSD. Z370 does not. What this mean is that on Z370 that NVMe SSD is competing with LAN, SSD, USB, audio etc. So AMD solution is miles better.

It can't be miles better while being slower. Slower is miles worse, not miles better.

 

[Strawman]

Of course it is. Facts don't lie. It's outdated even when comparing 2017 x370. And x570...

Intel is selling old stuff. Release date etc has nothing to do with this.

How is z490 outdated compared to the x370? Is the x370 pcie gen 4 ready? Nope. Will it support the new CPU's? Maybe, maybe not. So yeah, w/e

 

[HardReset]

EXACTLY, who buys 50$CPU and later upgrades to 750+ dollar CPU? That's why your original argument is WRONG, since you were comparing a 2700x to a 3950x There is a bigger price difference between 3950x and 2700x than 9900k to 8600k, therefore if anything, your own example was worse than mine

Eh? 2700X is or was most expensive Zen+ part. So price difference is irrelevant here. On other hand 8700K launched same time as 8600K.

Uhm, no, who buys a 300€ CPU and then upgrades to a 750€ CPU? Wasn't that what you just said in the previous paragraph ? The equivalent of the 2700x is the 3700x, not the 3950x.

There was no better Zen+ CPU than 2700+ so there was no option to buy anything better (and more expensive). Buy most expensive, upgrade to most expensive. That's logic here.

It can't be miles better while being slower. Slower is miles worse, not miles better.

How it's slower? Some synthetic benchmark shows minor difference?

How is z490 outdated compared to the x370? Is the x370 pcie gen 4 ready? Nope. Will it support the new CPU's? Maybe, maybe not. So yeah, w/e

I explained that at least two times already:

Who cares? My x370 platform has dedicated NVMe lane to SSD. Z370 does not. What this mean is that on Z370 that NVMe SSD is competing with LAN, SSD, USB, audio etc. So AMD solution is miles better.

That's what I said. However it still has 24 PCIe lanes from CPU.

What is main difference between LGA115X and 12xx platforms compared to HEDT platforms (LGA2011 etc). HEDT platforms have MORE than 20 PCIe lanes from CPU.

And AMD has 24.

And before you say there is no need for NVMe drive as SATA SSD is fast enough...

Current consoles have SSD eh sorry HDD inside. So NVMe will not likely make difference on PC games as even crappy SSD is miles faster than any console HDD. Upcoming consoles have SSD speeds that far exceed PCIe 3.0 speeds. So to match (or at least coming close) console SSD's PCIe 4.0 is mandatory.

 

[Strawman]

Eh? 2700X is or was most expensive Zen+ part. So price difference is irrelevant here. On other hand 8700K launched same time as 8600K.

Νο it's not.Have you heard of the 2990wx?

There was no better Zen+ CPU than 2700+ so there was no option to buy anything better (and more expensive). Buy most expensive, upgrade to most expensive. That's logic here.

No, it's definitely not "logic". It's completely illogical. So if the 4950x costs 15.000€, that's what the 2700x owner is going to upgrade to?

I have a 1080ti. I bought it for 800€ and it was the most expensive pascal GPU. Guess what, I didn't upgrade to a 2080ti cause it costs 1.2k.

Basically what you are saying is that if the 2700x owner pays more than double the money he paid for the 2700x he is going to get a better CPU. OH REALLY?

At that point, does it even matter? Does the cost of a motherboard stop you from buying an 800€ CPU?

How it's slower? Some synthetic benchmark shows minor difference?

I explained that at least two times already:



And before you say there is no need for NVMe drive as SATA SSD is fast enough...

Current consoles have SSD eh sorry HDD inside. So NVMe will not likely make difference as even crappy SSD is miles faster than any console HDD. Upcoming consoles have SSD speeds that far exceed PCIe 3.0 speeds. So to match (or at least coming close) console SSD's PCIe 4.0 is mandatory.

Since nvme's perform better on the z370 than the x370, whatever you are saying is meaningless. Z370 > x370, in every possible way. Memory support is also way better

 

[HardReset]

Νο it's not.Have you heard of the 2990wx?

True, was sticking into AM4 platform.

No, it's definitely not "logic". It's completely illogical. So if the 4950x costs 15.000€, that's what the 2700x owner is going to upgrade to?

More logical than getting cheapest possible and upgrade to most expensive possible. Because that way there is no need to even launch new CPU models.

I have a 1080ti. I bought it for 800€ and it was the most expensive pascal GPU. Guess what, I didn't upgrade to a 2080ti cause it costs 1.2k.

Basically what you are saying is that if the 2700x owner pays more than double the money he paid for the 2700x he is going to get a better CPU. OH REALLY?

At that point, does it even matter? Does the cost of a motherboard stop you from buying an 800€ CPU?

That's only 50% more expensive, not bad.

Not better CPU but Much better CPU that is best available too.

That depends on motherboard too, some motherboards cost even more than $800,

Since nvme's perform better on the z370 than the x370, whatever you are saying is meaningless. Z370 > x370, in every possible way. Memory support is also way better

It does not. It may perform marginally better on light load situations. However when using NVMe drive at 3500+ MB/s speeds Intel's bus between chipset and CPU will become serious bottleneck. That will cause mouse lag, audio lag etc. So much about "Z370 better performance".

Like I said, that's main difference between HEDT and LGA11xx/LGA12xx platforms. You cannot have SINGLE full speed NVMe drive on LGA11xx/LGA12xx without causing problems assuming GPU is using on 16 lanes. On AMD's AM4 platform you can have single NVMe drive without any problems to other parts. On HEDT platforms you can have even more.

But considering Single NVMe drive is too much for Z370/Z490, it's good enough reason to call it outdated.

 

[Strawman]

True, was sticking into AM4 platform.


More logical than getting cheapest possible and upgrade to most expensive possible. Because that way there is no need to even launch new CPU models.


That's only 50% more expensive, not bad.

Not better CPU but Much better CPU that is best available too.

8600k cost around 280 to 300 euros. The 2700x cost 330 euros. It's more reasonable to upgrade from an 8600k to a 9900k cause the price gap is way smaller compared to upgrading from the 2700x to a 3950x. Common freaking sense dude.

 

[HardReset]

8600k cost around 280 to 300 euros. The 2700x cost 330 euros. It's more reasonable to upgrade from an 8600k to a 9900k cause the price gap is way smaller compared to upgrading from the 2700x to a 3950x. Common freaking sense dude.

When buying most expensive parts, price is not an issue. Or at least it shouldn't be. It's illogical that you bough most expensive 1000-series Nvidia (1080 Ti) "price don't matter" but suddenly most expensive 2000-series was "too expensive".

 

[Strawman]

When buying most expensive parts, price is not an issue. Or at least it shouldn't be. It's illogical that you bough most expensive 1000-series Nvidia (1080 Ti) "price don't matter" but suddenly most expensive 2000-series was "too expensive".

So if the 3080ti costs 5k I should buy it cause I bought the 1080ti at 800€? Okay bro...

 

[Tom Sunday]

Looks like it's best to hold on to my "upgrade money" until late 2021 and for Intel's next-generation 11th-gen desktop (Gaming) move. With "Alder Lake" Intel plans to make huge changes with its 12th Generation line of processors supported on a brand new socket and platform. It appears that the Alder Lake CPU has a more rectangular shape with exact dimensions of 37.5 x 45.0mm whereas the existing 10th gen CPU's with the square-shaped package feature dimensions are a perfect square (37.5 x 37.5). The new dimensions would mean that Alder Lake CPUs and all future CPUs would no longer be compatible with the existing socket layouts. Upgrading right now with the extreme short-lived 10th generation cycle appears to be a mistake. But with my 3-4-year old water pump now making noises I do need a new AIO and have been eyeing the CAPELLIX. But it seems that with Intel changing the actual chip size in 2021 that no present AIO's will fit the new generation of CPU's? So perhaps a cheap air cooler may need buying to tie me over and to not winding up with an expensive Corsair AIO that essentially is obsolete in less then 1-year. Thoughts?

 

[Tom Sunday]

Looking for a year-end Mobo deal at the computer show this past weekend the boys from Varanasi told me that ASUS Z490 buyers have been experiencing problems in getting their LAN to work. ASUS cannot help and is basically all talk. Not even a new BIOS update, driver hotfixes and new cables will help. Even INTEL updated drivers are not working. It appears that there are problems with the I225-V (LAN Chip) and Asus want to keep this issue hushed. Simply this being a hardware problem and no software or driver updates can permanently fix it. What has been done to date is only bandaging the problem. Many new Mobo purchaser's in frustration (disconnected their onboard NIC) and installed a new PCIE NIC and gotten it to work without a hitch! But its another $50 or so out of pocket to simply forego the downtime, non-working driver installs, hanging on the telephone and difficult RMA's. Will the new Z590 Mobo's hitting the market in a few weeks time get a new NIC chip? Anyway, the best advice when upgrading is probably to stay away from purchasing any (2020) Z490 leftover boards using the embedded I225-V Ethernet controller. Then in January 2021 buying a Z590 board with a new 'Rocket Lake' CPU and 100% guaranteed PCIe 4.0. Thoughts?

 

[HardReset]

At least Z590 boards seem to finally get Intel onto AMD's 2017 level with 4 extra PCIe lanes from CPU. Of course x570 still ahead.

No idea about LAN chips though.