Trump threatens tariffs on imported chips and tech goods despite warnings about higher PC, smartphone prices

[yRaz]

I'm going to take this at face value. I know how do all of what you're talking. However, most of it is self taught. So, square, cubic volume, the inverse square law, are all within my grasp. I ca even use a tape measure, a micrometer, and a square, but only in "dire emergencies". I tend to forget algebra as soon as I walk out of the classroom. But then again 9 + x =12, doesn't have to be solved algebraically. (no head scratching involved).

Keep in mind, I went to school way back when the "school bus", was a brontosaur painted yellow. The boys got sent off to wood or auto shop, and the girls learned to type.

I do think that if the problems you're encountering are caused by the DOE, then it would be better to restructure it, than eliminate it entirely.

lets call it "shop math" for the sake of making things simple. Many of our straight out of highschool apprentices have ZERO understanding of shop math. before, you get accepted into the "per-apprenticeship" program, you used to have to have to get a 72% or higher on an aptitude test. We lowered that from 72% to 59% in 2021. If you get a 72% or higher, you start as a second year which pays 23.70/hr. That was the previous first year rate. Now first years make 20.30/hr.

It's exhausting and I don't know how much I feel like going into it. The thing is, explaining a tape measure to someone who doesn't understand fractions or know their multiplication tables from their 1's to their 12's, is, well, exhausting.

I do feel bad for these people because the system has failed them, but our retention rate has dropped to absurd levels. It used to be around 80% retention, now it's in the 50% region.

I don't want to sit there and call them dumb, but I don't know how else to feel about it. If I have to spend a month teaching someone how to read a tape measure, how would you feel about it? As a mason, we were never expect to be "smart." the thing is, how do I teach someone how to lay brick or finish concrete who can't even do fractions.

The whole experience is frustrating and demoralizing. These are trades, not colleges. I learned this stuff in literally elementary school 30 years ago. They can't add, subtract, multiply or even estimate. I don't want to blame them directly, but I just don't have the energy to take this on anymore. I already have a full time job, it shouldn't be my problem that highschool graduates can't even do basic math anymore.

 

[Imperium77]

Trump is only doing this to try to take credit for the Fab facility that is being built in Arizona. He doesnt want Biden to get credit for it. Its the whole thing. He wont do it for reason others have already said plus our military needing ot buy those chips would just hurt us with a price hike.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

It is pointless arguing with liberals. The fact is Donald Trump is the POTUS for the next 4 years and the democrats lost in landslide fashion because you put America last. The left will continue to lose every election until you collectively stop being radical and delusional

Trump is indeed the president for another 4 years but it was hardly a landslide (in terms of popular vote numbers & percentages) and Trump didn't even get a majority of the popular votes.

In 2024, Trump got 49.8% of the votes with 77.3m votes, while Harris got 48.3% of the votes with 75m. For comparison, the 2020 election was 51.3% w. 81.2m to Biden vs 46.8% w. 74.2m to Trump.

Harris was a bad candidate who got shoehorned in at the last minute because Biden was in denial about his own aging diseases and Biden torpedoed the chance his party had at having a primary despite promising to only serve one term. Biden/Harris was also unpopular because of the lingering effects of inflation (inflation was down to 2-3% by 2024 but earlier 2022 inflation still caused lingering problems) and how they completely dropped the ball on immigration. Biden/Harris in 2024 were incredibly weak candidates (even weaker than HIllary Clinton).

Trump only won because of how weak the Democratic candidates were, not because he himself was that popular nor because his ideas are all that great (or even coherent). It is another lesser of two evils situation like 2016 all over again where people held their nose to vote for a candidate who seemed less bad than the alternative.

 

[Bluescreendeath]

you are misinterpreting what I'm saying. This isn't a tax on the TSMC chips as they go to a third party to be assembled and then the assembled product is taxed when entering into the US. The country it is assembled in as a final product is what they consider the country of origin and, thus, the tax rate of the Tariff. TSMC makes the chips, they aren't making fully assebled 5090's. Very little of what TSMC makes is going to be taxed directly with Tiawan as the country of origin.

And one reason that I support the Tariffs is that if these things were made in humane working conditions they would actually cost A LOT MORE than the tax added by the Tariffs. Trump isn't doing this as some humanitarian thing, but people need to stop seeing things so black and white. You don't care that something is being made with child slave labor so long as it is cheap.

CPUs will commonly say "diffused in Taiwan" and "made in Malaysia." Most of the value of the chip comes from TSMC making the semiconductors, and the final assembly is in another country. If either Taiwan or Malaysia gets hit by tariffs, then both Taiwan and Malaysia will suffer (with Taiwan likely suffering more).

Thus, tariffs will still be harming our ally Taiwan even if it is levied on only Malaysia assembled CPUs.

The claim that corporations use slave labor is a left wing propaganda/misunderstanding that for some mind boggling reason has now been picked up by right wing populists too...both of whom have no clue how these jobs works.

Aseembling microchips is not done by child slave labor - it is done by skilled adult labor.

Furthermore, many modern westernized international corporations create the best jobs available in those conditions - which is why people flock to those jobs in the first place. Even if we are talking about crappier jobs like Nike shoe assembly jobs done by kids from 20-30+ years ago, those jobs are better than the alternative jobs in their countries back then (the alternative for poor kids would be more dangerous heavy industry jobs, dangerous mining, back breaking farming labor, prostitution, etc).

Creating microchips require high skill and precision, and even the lesser skilled jobs of assembly still requires some skill and precision. These jobs are done by adults and the job usually pays well. This is not slavery, doesn't use child labor, and is thus is not remotely child slavery.

I nor anyone else here claimed Trump is doing this as a humanitarian thing. If we want to talk about humanitarian concerns and taking into consideration added costs, then we would be tariffing cheap Chinese goods, Middle Eastern oil and gas, rare earth minerals mined in Africa and South America, diamonds & gems, etc.

Instead of tariffing mainland China (our geopolitical adversary/rival that actually has humanitarian problems), these new tariffs will be mostly or also targeted at friendly/friendlier nations that have far less issues with worker compensation. The tarriffs are backwards - the trade war is with China and Russia - not our allies and friendlier nations.

 

[scavengerspc]

Did you complain about Biden when CPI jumped to 9.1%? How about when food jumped 24%? How about when housing and rent jumped 34%?

Nothing new here..

Inflation at the end of 2024 was 2.9%
Did you give credit as all those things got much better as the years passed?
Didnt think so. Whining MAGAts.

 

[DirtyLoad]

That's the point, though, right? To raise prices to disincentivise people from buying goods? Tariffs will suck for awhile, but I don't like buying imported goods made with slave labor even if it means I get them at rock bottom prices. The thing is, I don't even have the option to pay more to buy products that aren't made with what is effectively slave labor.

So, yeah, bring on the tariffs. People will hold onto products longer and consume less. I'm a value based consumer. That doesn't mean I'm cheap, it means I'm picky. I don't have a problem with buying something expensive if it provides value to my life or I expect to have it for a long time. Problem is, most crap today is either stuff forces features on you that make it less functional or that it's built so cheaply that you expect it to break. And warranties are useless these days, I completely ignore them. Also, why the **** does my washing machine have a EULA? I miss my old one where I pushed a button and it turned on. Those settings I always used and never changed? Now I have to enter those in manually every time before I hit the start button even lights up and "allows me" to start the wash cycle. **** you LG

Don't get married, guys. A touch screen smart washer was the second worst purchase I ever made. The first was a wedding ring.

Married and I have an awesome wife, our mistake was kids.

 

[captaincranky]

It is pointless arguing with liberals. The fact is Donald Trump is the POTUS for the next 4 years and the democrats lost in landslide fashion because you put America last. The left will continue to lose every election until you collectively stop being radical and delusional

Trimp didn't even get 50% of the popular vote in any of the 3 presidential elections he was in. In fact, he lost to Hillary Clinton in that category. So stop talking this "landslide" sh!t. You're one one who's "delusional".

He squeaked out a win this time._full stop. The electoral college is a fickle mistress. Maybe we should dump her, like the trimpster did with his first two wives.

 

[captaincranky]

Instead of tariffing mainland China (our geopolitical adversary/rival that actually has humanitarian problems), these new tariffs will be mostly or also targeted at friendly/friendlier nations that have far less issues with worker compensation. The tarriffs are backwards - the trade war is with China and Russia - not our allies and friendlier nations.

You were doing pretty good until you got to this point.. Trimp's tariffs will only hurt the American people. Try to get this fixed in your mind:

An importer pays a tariff, then passes those price hikes to the consumer. (Again, that would be the US customers). Need I say it a 3rd time?

"Geopolitical rivals", are hurt by >sanctions<, which gives then internal economic problems

 

[captaincranky]

Second, I would argue that the Biden/Harris administration actually ran the country into the ground hence why 78 million people voted Trump into the office. This include democrats who voted for him. You are either delusional or just politically ignorant

I'll bet you would, and you'd be dead wrong.

 

[Str8Shot]

Did you complain about Biden when CPI jumped to 9.1%? How about when food jumped 24%? How about when housing and rent jumped 34%?

Nothing new here..

Didn’t Trump print most of the money/debt that was then inherited by Biden? Of course yes. Something like 25% of our debt was added during Trump’s 4 years alone. Sure, EVERY President added to the national debt by huge swathes of money, Trump took the cake. You don’t have to be partisan to evaluate the raw data. Here is Trump 2.0 doing the same thing he did during 1.0. He’s for lower rates too, even negative rates…you know what that will do to the purchasing power of the average consumer…?

 

[captaincranky]

Trump is only doing this to try to take credit for the Fab facility that is being built in Arizona. He doesnt want Biden to get credit for it. Its the whole thing. He wont do it for reason others have already said plus our military needing ot buy those chips would just hurt us with a price hike.

Well, there are (ostensibly) three (3) fabs being built by TSMC in Arizona. All of these were negotiated under Biden's watch, partially with stimulus provided by the "CHIPS" act. The first of these is "rumored" to be already online:

https://www.tsmc.com/static/abouttsmcaz/index.htm

Some possible issues:

Delays in TSMC’s Arizona plant spark supply chain worries

Major tech firms may have to remain dependent on Taiwan-based plants, increasing their exposure to geopolitical risks.

www.cio.com

 

[scoffer]

I'm a Brit. So I'm not showing favour either way, and I'm certainly no expert on US history. However, I do think that Trump has a valid point about the Panama canal. Your ancestors in US funded and built the damn thing. With plenty of self-interest naturally. I'm led to believe that Pres. Carter returned it to Panamanian sovereignty with a proviso of sorts, that it remain a neutral entity, so to speak. From even just the military aspect, it is supremely important to the US -not to mention in terms of business interests. However, now, it appears that both ends of the canal are basically controlled by Chinese entities.. Surely that is one hell of a dangerous situation, given the arrogance and total disregard for world-order shown by the CCP? It is yet another 'choke-point' developed by them. Do some research, and you will find that it is not the only one being developed by them. We are living in a very dangerous world, and the US especially, cannot allow such behaviour to continue unchallenged.

As a footnote - I believe that if more right-minded people in the US had stood up and challenged the DEI garbage that flooded the US in Biden's term, then you might well have seen another Democratic presidency. Mind you, with Kamala Harris in charge, it would probably have been a major s$#t-show...

Best wishes from across the pond...

 

[Puiu]

Actually, yes, I would. My biggest problem is the working conditions in third world countries that companies use to make things as cheaply as possible in the race to the bottom.

And you're thinking about jobs and the labor market wrong. You don't get rich mining for gold, you make money selling picks and pans to the miners. How about you get a job assembling and maintaining the robots in a factory? Automechanic wasn't a job when we all used horses.

"Actually, yes, I would." - Be honest, you wouldn't

As for the low paying jobs in third world countries, you also have to take into account the cost living there (where I live a 12 pack of eggs is about 2-2.5$, maybe 3 if I go for really expensive ones). It's not like the US is doing well in that department. Hell, I bet most of those people actually have more benefits than US workers

 

[yRaz]

"Actually, yes, I would." - Be honest, you wouldn't

As for the low paying jobs in third world countries, you also have to take into account the cost living there (where I live a 12 pack of eggs is about 2-2.5$, maybe 3 if I go for really expensive ones). It's not like the US is doing well in that department. Hell, I bet most of those people actually have more benefits than US workers

FDA ordered the slaughter of around 12 million egg laying chickens to control a bird flu outbreak. Egg prices are likely going to be high for the next 12-18 months.

I know that the US is the butt of many jokes for the rest of the world and the reputation is fairly well deserved. The thing is, no, those third world countries do not have better working conditions or benifits than we have in the US. The rest of the first world shouldn't be making jokes about the US to justify being able to buy cheap consumer goods from third world countries using what is effectively slave labor. That argument will get you no where and immediately makes you look like a fool.

But you know what's better than the absurd price of eggs? having a friend that raises chickens and gets so many eggs that they literally give them to me because they don't know what to do with all of them. Consumerism, factory farming and the race to the bottom lead to the bird flu outbreak that killed 12 million chickens and will increase the price of eggs in the market for the next year or so. The race to the bottom for electronics and other consumer goods does exactly the same thing. It has nothing to do with Biden or Trump, it has to do with the world not giving a ****. A lack of empathy and sociopathic nature where we intentionally divide ourselves using pointless political opinions to justify to ourselves short term satisfaction through buying cheap goods.

 

[Rudyduu]

Did you complain about Biden when CPI jumped to 9.1%? How about when food jumped 24%? How about when housing and rent jumped 34%?

Nothing new here..

What specifically did Biden do to make prices go up? What did he propose that everyone said "That's just going to raise prices"? Why is this suddenly about Biden instead of about Trump and something he's proposing? What's wrong with criticizing a politician that's doing something that's just going to make more money for the government while raising costs for everyone else? If another politician did the same thing that doesn't mean it's okay from then on.

Trump is saying that tariffs will bring manufacturing to the state, but it just doesn't work like that. But please explain how you think it does, I would love to hear your explanation.

Tariffs are paid for by the importer and the importer passes those increased costs to the consumer, why would an importer spend millions on factories in the states when they can just pass on the additional costs to the consumer while being able to blame the tariffs, put in place by someone else, for the increased cost?

Do people think there are modern factories all set up ready to go and we just aren't using them? It's not as if we've been making semiconductors for decades and have factories ready to go and the current chip manufacturing we have in the states is mostly new and just getting spun up.

 

[Rudyduu]

it appears that both ends of the canal are basically controlled by Chinese entities..

As a footnote - I believe that if more right-minded people in the US had stood up and challenged the DEI garbage that flooded the US in Biden's term, then you might well have seen another Democratic presidency.

First off, no evidence was actually shown that China was in control, so I'm not sure if that's actually true, you'd think if it was the situation would have been on all news channels and not just from Trump.

Secondly, I don't even know how DEI actually affects anyone in the military, but as a defense contractor all we had to do was some "training" that was basically about not being an a-hole to people and that was it. It seems people just hate the idea of what it might be and not what it actually is. And so many people, assume anyone who is what they consider "normal" are automatically free from mental issues and people who are aren't considered "normal" are automatically unstable.

DEI never affected me and I don't see how anyone has been hurt by it. I refuse to participate in pronouns especially if a person looks like a dude, but wants to be called a ma'am, I'll just call them by their name or something else, but I've never had any issues where I had to state how I feel about it to someone who had an issue of me using what they thought was the wrong pronoun.

 

[tragicallyhip]

The tariff regime he is trying to create will harm your jobs, industries, pocketbooks and paychecks, it is essentially a consumer tax paid by the American people. In this interconnected, globalized trading world is America really the economic powerhouse Trump thinks it is?, or only serve to reveal it's gaping vulnerabilities. Nickle: a strategic mineral used in Stainless Steal, military applications, and more is a good example.The US literally produces *NO* Nickle of its own,nearly every ounce is imported from a country he is picking a fight with (Canada). In short order nations exporting to the US will partner up and STRATEGICALLY counter tariff Trump till his eyes bleed. It will be the SmootHawley Tariff Act all over again only on steroids. Trump likes to fight and win...not this time.

 

[Puiu]

FDA ordered the slaughter of around 12 million egg laying chickens to control a bird flu outbreak. Egg prices are likely going to be high for the next 12-18 months.

I know that the US is the butt of many jokes for the rest of the world and the reputation is fairly well deserved. The thing is, no, those third world countries do not have better working conditions or benifits than we have in the US. The rest of the first world shouldn't be making jokes about the US to justify being able to buy cheap consumer goods from third world countries using what is effectively slave labor. That argument will get you no where and immediately makes you look like a fool.

But you know what's better than the absurd price of eggs? having a friend that raises chickens and gets so many eggs that they literally give them to me because they don't know what to do with all of them. Consumerism, factory farming and the race to the bottom lead to the bird flu outbreak that killed 12 million chickens and will increase the price of eggs in the market for the next year or so. The race to the bottom for electronics and other consumer goods does exactly the same thing. It has nothing to do with Biden or Trump, it has to do with the world not giving a ****. A lack of empathy and sociopathic nature where we intentionally divide ourselves using pointless political opinions to justify to ourselves short term satisfaction through buying cheap goods.

"those third world countries do not have better working conditions or benifits than we have in the US" - do you have cheap healthcare? do you have 4 weeks of paid vacation leave? do you have paid maternity leave (it's 18 weeks where I live)? do you have paid sick leave (180 days are covered by the national insurance)? is the rent affordable with the minimum wage?

Let's be honest here, US workers are more slaves than slaves

I'm not trying to diss the US, but we need to stop looking at such things with rose tinted glasses. If I wanted I could have easily found a job in the US with my IT experience... but it's just not worth it to move there anymore (it was 10-15 years ago). Maybe I'll do business with US companies, but that's about it.

 

[tragicallyhip]

If the plan is to replace the income tax with tarrifs, end the IRS first, otherwise you have just increased taxes rather than replaced them (incidentally replacing other taxes is how we got the income tax in the first place but it will never go over 1% they promised at the time)

If the plan is to replace the income tax with tarrifs, end the IRS first, otherwise you have just increased taxes rather than replaced them (incidentally replacing other taxes is how we got the income tax in the first place but it will never go over 1% they promised at the time)

tried and failed to do this once before, the Smoot Hawley Tariff Act, total disaster..,the rest of the world was having none it.

 

[yRaz]

"those third world countries do not have better working conditions or benifits than we have in the US" - do you have cheap healthcare? do you have 4 weeks of paid vacation leave? do you have paid maternity leave (it's 18 weeks where I live)? do you have paid sick leave (180 days are covered by the national insurance)? is the rent affordable with the minimum wage?

Let's be honest here, US workers are more slaves than slaves

I'm not trying to diss the US, but we need to stop looking at such things with rose tinted glasses. If I wanted I could have easily found a job in the US with my IT experience... but it's just not worth it to move there anymore (it was 10-15 years ago). Maybe I'll do business with US companies, but that's about it.

US workers aren't being contaminated with heavy metals or work in toxic waste dumps. We don't have suicide nets around factories. It's. It perfect, but using the sub par work environment to justify slave labor in the supply chain is just foolishness. You seem more interested in insulting the US than actually addressing or even admitting that there is a problem.

 

[Axeia]

Do people think there are modern factories all set up ready to go and we just aren't using them? It's not as if we've been making semiconductors for decades and have factories ready to go and the current chip manufacturing we have in the states is mostly new and just getting spun up.

Well, I mean... Intel is struggling to find a buyer for their fabs. So technically yes, there are modern factories all set up with a real risk of running out of things to do. The tariffs might save Intels bacon by either making them more interesting to purchase or simply by Intels own chips having a massive cost advantage over the competition (although afaik assembling the whole CPU - not just the die is done outside the US. That should be able to be moved to the US though).
So for the chips industry it could somewhat work although prices go up for everyone and it's not like it would create or maintain many jobs relative to the cost increase. It's not like making CPUs is extremely labour intensive where you need tons of people.
Almost all the cost are in the machines needed with the most expensive ones coming from The Netherlands (ASML) and no shot at creating those domestically. Most of the production floor is many machines with few people.

 

[tragicallyhip]

Tariffs have a secondary goal noone talks about, to increase tax revenue and the trump tariffs are expected to raise tax revenue by $500B a year.
[/Q
Tariffs are a consumer tax paid for by hard working Americans, that money comes out of your pockets not ours...better buckle up.

 

[tragicallyhip]

This is by far the worst of his bluff though: What's the plan here? People *must* have told him it is not just fiscally but physically impossible to rebuild all TSMC fabs in the US within a timeframe that wouldn't crash the economy, like the laws of physics do not care about a tariff war.

But more over, what's the possible play for Taiwan here? Do they just let TSMC move 100% away and basically let the CCP launch an invasion with literally nothing to stop them from doing so?

Like seriously what can possibly be accomplished by this move if it was to be serious? Taiwan says no and the US plummets into a technology dark age while the rest of the world thrives? Taiwan says yes, gets invaded by the CCP and probably is not able to protect their tech in time since as discussed, it would literally take several years to just get a few of the fabs moved over?

Look, we know ridiculous threats actually do work against weakened, subservient economies: Petro from Colombia learn that the hard way over the weekend. But do you they seriously think corporations like Google, Amazon, Microsoft, etc. That absolutely depend on TSMC remaining alive for the time being will be as easy to push over and submit to 25-100% tariffs?

If he wants to bluff his way into constructing more US based fabs, threats have to actually be believable, feasible. Otherwise he'll look like a clown once he backs down and trust me, the rest of the US State apparatus is *NOT* ready to go to war with China right this second or to basically lose the support of most of the money people.

Tariffs have a secondary goal noone talks about, to increase tax revenue and the trump tariffs are expected to raise tax revenue by $500B a year.

 

[longjohn119]

The problem with Trump's (il)logic is it takes 4 to 5 years to plan, build and man a high performance chip foundry. That mean at least 4 to 5 years of INFLATION on all major PC and smart phone products. A 20% Tariff Tax = 20% Inflation .... on top of the normal yearly inflation

 

[longjohn119]

So basically it's a tax increase on the middle class ......