Trump's 125% tariffs hit Chinese Amazon sellers hard, forcing them to raise prices or quit the US

[dirtyferret]

It's tough to have a conversation with someone who lack's basic reading comprehension and/or thinks chatgpt gives out constant accurate information but here goes

Actually Trump's Justice department just found 500 million dollars worth of narcotics.

1) it's the USA DOJ and USA Coast Guard, trump does not own them. Nor does that have anything to do with anything I posted previously.

Annual Fentanyl-Related Deaths:

2022: Approximately 73,654 people died from fentanyl overdoses in the U.S.
USAFacts

2) If you had taken the time to read and educate yourself, you would have seen the article I linked you stated "The total number of fentanyl deaths actually declined modestly in 2023, dropping from 76,226 to 74,702". So both the article I linked and chatgpt refute (that means disprove) your statement of "Chinese made fentanyl that is killing 100,000 people per year"

Notice the ones talking down are the ones getting owned! You love marginalized groups overdosing from narcotics!

3) I see no one a) talking down b) getting owned c) marginalizing anyone overdosing or dying of anything d) denying China's role in aiding fentanyl production that impacts not only the USA but the World.
4) all that said, I have zero inclination that trump gives a rats *** to China's role in fentanyl and if he did, a global tariff solely against China (or even a Western Civ) would be far more impactful but instead he hit every USA ally with a tariff as well. I do wish him luck in stopping the illegal drug supply trade in China and India (a major player as well) but I don't believe he gives one rat's azz or even knows how to properly set up an alliance to put pressure on those countries to improve counter narcotics.

With that I bid you adieu as I have no desire to converse with you anymore.

 

[ZedRM]

China can survive not exporting to the US without any issues whatsoever.

The USA? That's a big maybe. But when the rest of the Allied nations join in and they're giving hints they will, that will change things and China(CCP) will need to stop acting like children and come to the bargaining table like sensible, civilized people.

 

[BogdanR]

The USA? That's a big maybe. But when the rest of the Allied nations join in and they're giving hints they will, that will change things and China(CCP) will need to stop acting like children and come to the bargaining table like sensible, civilized people.

Will they, though? Maybe, maybe not. Allied nations? You mean those PATHETIC Europeans (Trump administration’s words, caps included, not mine)? Bad, bad, “not a country” Canada? The mood in Canada is heavily biased towards “let the two big dinosaurs fight it off”. Who else? Japan and South Korea? There are persistent rumours they’re actually in talks with China.

So, apparently there are real consequences when you swing a sledgehammer at your traditional allies.

Perhaps Russia and North Korea will lend a hand? I mean the US voted with them against the Allies, sure they will help, no?

 

[ZedRM]

Japan and South Korea?

Good joke. Those nations are not that insane.

 

[BogdanR]

Good joke. Those nations are not that insane.

Not insane, they are simply (and quite realistically) starting to consider China a more reliable partner than the US.
The joke is one of those Seinfeld style, “funny ‘cause it’s true” kind. You’re welcome nonetheless.

 

[ZedRM]

Not insane, they are simply (and quite realistically) starting to consider China a more reliable partner than the US.

That's insane for many, many reasons.

 

[BogdanR]

That's insane, for many, many reasons.

I’m not saying it is not insane. It is.
It is also quite normal If you think about it. China is RIGHT THERE. Why not be diplomatic about it, since your ally on the other side of the largest ocean is not your ally anymore.

 

[ZedRM]

Why not be diplomatic about it

Be diplomatic with tyrants? Yeah, that's insane, almost by definition.

since your ally on the other side of the largest ocean

That hasn't been a problem for the last 70years, why would it suddenly be a problem now?

is not your ally anymore.

Now that is a truly insane statement.

 

[BogdanR]

Be diplomatic with tyrants? Yeah, that's insane, almost by definition.

Indeed. That applies to Trump as well though.

That hasn't been a problem for the last 70years, why would it suddenly be a problem now?

Umm… Trump?

Now that is a truly insane statement.

Ok, let’s agree to disagree at this point.

We will see how all this will turn out. My money is on the rest of the world leaving China and the US fight it off. The US definitely didn’t ask for our help, on the contrary it made sure it antagonized everyone (except Russia of course).

Both China and the US could use being knocked down a few notches. The rest of the world would welcome it for sure.

 

[ZedRM]

Indeed. That applies to Trump as well though.

Umm… Trump?

Seems like someone is using a crutch. That too is insane.

Ok, let’s agree to disagree at this point.

No, let's focus on facts and call an insane rose an insane rose.

 

[monkeylove]

Manufacturing exists in China *at the moment* due to favorable market conditions. But that can change, and when it does, said manufacturing can and will relocate. Even if not in America, the likes of India, Vietnam, and Taiwan have recently stepped up in the tech manufacturing world (Just ask Apple). It might take time for them/us to catch up to what China can do, but it’s ultimately better for everyone in terms of supply chain robustness, cost competition, and safety/security if China isn’t the sole supplier of this stuff.

From what I remember, the Economist reported around two decades ago that around 40 percent of manufacturing in China involves assembly of parts manufactured elsewhere. Also, more workers have been moving to places like the fast food sector because pay's higher.

In short, China is becoming like the U.S. and other countries, I.e., experiencing the effects of late capitalism.

 

[monkeylove]

Ah, but will they? Years ago, Panasonic was asked by the emperor of Japan to build an appliance plant in China. A few years later, they were doing some competitive shopping and found the first microwave oven for sale under $100. The took it back to Panasoinc, and tore it down to figure out how they did it. They found out that the microwave was made in Chiina, and the chassis was a carbon copy of their own from the plant they helped the Chinese build, right down to some unneeded stamped hole that carried over from the initial design.

Fast forward to today, I own a Breville espresso machine. They are an Australian company, and it turns out they assemble their products in China. I looked this up because I was thinking about upgrading, and found Temu had dozens of machines that looked like clones of the Breville, but for less than half the price.

This is why China is such an issue. They will steal anything they can get their hands on and swamp the market with cheaper alternatives, putting the companies that invent/develop successful products out of business.

They want power, control and expansion, not money. And they will protect their companies and industries with whatever tariffs and exclusions they need to protect themselves.

Interestingly enough, one article from almost two decades ago reported that a century earlier, the China of the world was the U.S. itself.

A nation of outlaws - The Boston Globe

Later, countries like Japan did similar.

 

[monkeylove]

The Chinese have strategically devalued their currency multiple times. Last time Trump was in power and added tariffs to them he threatened to add even more if they did it again.

My experience as a consumer is generally US made items have better quality than Chinese ones. That is by far more true than false. And it is a given that most people will choose the cheaper item unless emotionally driven to do otherwise.

Sure we don't live within communism, so we should trade with equal partners right? Or should we trade with slavers who culturally despise us and only seek to exploit us? Or does fair trade and equality not matter suddenly if we're getting our stuff for cheap no matter the personal cost? This isn't arbitrary when your trading partners are your enemies. And China is a US enemy, they are a Russian ally. Make no mistake. Add this to how they managed to couple their manufacturing so deeply into the US economy and swap plastic doo-dads for significant US debt and mortgage bonds. They're not playing by the same rules as us, they have 10, 20, and even 50 year plans.

Let's not pretend it's just capitalism, that we should allow the ship to steer straight into an infinite hole of debt because we are too weak to say no to trading enemies who cheat any way they can.

Reminds me of the U.S. trade wars with Japan during the 1980s.

 

[BogdanR]

Seems like someone is using a crutch. That too is insane.

No, let's focus on facts and call an insane rose an insane rose.

You seem more focused on winning an argument and ignoring what you don’t like. I’m fine with that, you win!
Cheers!

 

[Axeia]

Will they, though? Maybe, maybe not. Allied nations? You mean those PATHETIC Europeans (Trump administration’s words, caps included, not mine)? Bad, bad, “not a country” Canada? The mood in Canada is heavily biased towards “let the two big dinosaurs fight it off”. Who else? Japan and South Korea? There are persistent rumours they’re actually in talks with China.

So, apparently there are real consequences when you swing a sledgehammer at your traditional allies.

Perhaps Russia and North Korea will lend a hand? I mean the US voted with them against the Allies, sure they will help, no?

Trump says the EU is nasty and wouldn't come to the aid of NATO members unless they paid enough. Vance hated having to bail Europe out again and thinks Denmark is doing a poor job at keeping Iceland safe, refers to France and the UK as random countries.

But hey according Scott Bessent (US treasury secretary) Europe is friends and allies.

Mixed messaging, basically 0 respect and the US sees Europe as an ally when it suits them.

 

[monkeylove]

Trump says the EU is nasty and wouldn't come to the aid of NATO members unless they paid enough. Vance hated having to bail Europe out again and thinks Denmark is doing a poor job at keeping Iceland safe, refers to France and the UK as random countries.

But hey according Scott Bessent (US treasury secretary) Europe is friends and allies.

Mixed messaging, basically 0 respect and the US sees Europe as an ally when it suits them.

I think the U.S. needs NATO to encircle Russia, and other countries in the Asian region to encircle China, and plays both sides in the Middle East (e.g., arms Israel but also Jordan, Egypt, and Saudi Arabia) to maintain access to oil in that region. In short, as you put it, it plays both sides, and has been doing so long before the Trump admin.

 

[Axeia]

In short, as you put it, it plays both sides, and has been doing so long before the Trump admin.

Oh everyone does but they do stick to prior agreements. If your word is worthless people stop buying into it after all.
Putin's word when it comes to peace agreements for example is hard to believe when he's agreed to many and broken many as well. If Trump administration keeps making underhanded comments about its allies then those allies will start distancing themselves.
It's clear that Canada and Europe both moving away from US military equipment are starting to do so already.
The tariffs being a thing, then not being a thing, then being a thing again. You betcha that everyone will try to minimize its reliance on the US because the US simply is unreliable. Most of what Europe does the US can do to some degree.
Sure you might not get a car that is on the same level of quality as a Mercedes but it can still be a pretty nice car. Doing what Asia does however, there's some economies of scale there and groupings of certain industries allowing for rapid innovation that might be hard to replicate.

I know the western opinion is often "cheap Chinese crap" and a lot of it is, but a lot of it isn't. Just look at how rapidly some tech innovations get pushed through around Shenzen. The line between manufacturer and hardware designer is very short and the lack of / much weak patent systems allows for much quicker innovation.
I often see it with tech products where the cheap Chinese brands are years ahead of the west. Hotswappable, pre-lubed sound dampened optionally wireless keyboard? Could find that on aliexpress 8 years ago for $60 and just about a year ago it started becoming a thing in the west with the big brands but at $180-280.
There's now a big surge in keyboards with one or two screens on them (full IPS/AMOLED panels) betcha it'll be a while before that gets popular amongst the big brands here.
Lian-Li's unifan system where you click them together? I see some companies coming up with their own versions like Phanteks but oh boy are those expensive. Meanwhile Chinese manufacturers crank tons of them out and at basically no additional costs (and why should it cost it much more, pogo-pins aren't a new invention. Sticking them on a fan hub is a novel thing but not something that should be patented leading to massive cost increases.

I'd be a-okay with China and the west coming to the table about the whole copyright/patent system and loosening it up for both sides. The west is far too eager to apply it on everything which leads to companies which have no role other than suing other companies over patents they bought from other companies (that should never be a business model). A lot of them don't even hold up in court when push to comes to shove due to prior art. The Chinese approach is too lax. Actual innovations that took a lot of research and costs are just straight up copied, or worse the factory making the product straight up sells the blueprints off. China has reached a level of wealth and innovation where they'll want to start protecting their own inventions, the West has gone overboard...
Time to come to the table and reach a international middle ground.

 

[godrilla]

It's tough to have a conversation with someone who lack's basic reading comprehension and/or thinks chatgpt gives out constant accurate information but here goes


1) it's the USA DOJ and USA Coast Guard, trump does not own them. Nor does that have anything to do with anything I posted previously.


2) If you had taken the time to read and educate yourself, you would have seen the article I linked you stated "The total number of fentanyl deaths actually declined modestly in 2023, dropping from 76,226 to 74,702". So both the article and I linked and chatgpt refute (that means disprove) your statement of "Chinese made fentanyl that is killing 100,000 people per year"


3) I see no one a) talking down b) getting owned c) marginalizing anyone overdosing or dying of anything d) denying China's role in aiding fentanyl production that impacts not only the USA but the World.
4) all that said, I have zero inclination that trump gives a rats *** to China's role in fentanyl and if he did, a global tariff solely against China (or even a Western Civ) would be far more impactful but instead he hit every USA ally with a tariff as well. I do wish him luck in stopping the illegal drug supply trade in China and India (a major player as well) but I don't believe he gives one rat's azz or even knows how to properly set up an alliance to put pressure on those countries to improve counter narcotics.

With that I bid you adieu as I have no desire to converse with you anymore.

I used chat gpt to lower the lamen terminology for you. You use a extreme bias left wing sources so you left me no choice. You compared cocaine, to fentanyl shows you probably never got high outside of TDS crystals you are clearly addicted to. Sure the numbers might have dropped due to community push for Narcan over the counter, Fentanyl test kits etc etc. Also finally shoplifting over $900 became illegal last year which contributed well funded customers for the cartels.
So in you mind you thought the middle ground between 100k total vs 70k per year ( which is closer to the 100k peak figure I gave) that you had the win in this conversation. Guy if you want to be on my level watch blow on acid, and Requim for dream while you rolling then speak kid! Cocaine? Lol kids were lacing weed with coke and no one died back in the day. Fentanyl is 50x stronger than Heroin and 100 x stronger than morphine. Let me know when you get a doctorate in medicine and almost 20 years tenure before you checkmate yourself again!
There are whole communities being ravaged be fentanyl, toddlers dieing from, laced candy, students dieing from laced weed. Let me know when you personally administered Narcan to someone to save a life and dispersed 1000s of Narcans to save lives kid!

Circling back to the topic. Trump just announced electronics are exempt from tarrifs.
Trump Exempts Phones, Computers, Other Electronics From Reciprocal Tariffs https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_...ucts-from-tariffs-5840817?utm_source=andshare

 

[Eldrach]

Basically what I see in this discussion is a great divide in opinions within the US. A strong USA would be united within backed by strong allies (especially Canada)
That’s currently the biggest issue in my opinion - as a president you’re supposed to be a unifying force, that builds prosperity and trust from both sides of the two party state - it reduces tension and keeps everyone working for the same goals.
Second job is to make sure your allies have faith in how you run your country, to be fair, to build trust and based on that, you’ll get the best trade deals and people on your side globally.

I mean, currently it just looks like someone ate testosterone with their breakfast and decided to lash out at everyone - and then blame it on everyone else when they didn’t react to those tantrums as you expected them to.
We live in a world where you just can’t go back to isolating yourselves as a country or you’ll be left behind quickly.
The US may have put a pause on tariffs now, and said out loud you won’t invade the territory of a NATO ally after some heavy pressure, but the trust in the US leadership isn’t great anymore, or even good - it’s already making ripples to a point where investmens will be put towards other markets. Some companies will invest in the US - it won't be on consumer goods, too expensive to manufacture, it'll be restricted to markets where people will pay extra to get premium (AI servers, premium business products etc.). There won't be any big investments in making smaller items people will deem to expensive, especially as protectionism might end with the current president term.

I think the USA is great, I really do - no other country in the world has managed to breed success like the US - it's just sad to see how people over there now seems to focus on "beating the other side" instead of building a better country in a bipartisan way.

 

[monkeylove]

Oh everyone does but they do stick to prior agreements. If your word is worthless people stop buying into it after all.
Putin's word when it comes to peace agreements for example is hard to believe when he's agreed to many and broken many as well. If Trump administration keeps making underhanded comments about its allies then those allies will start distancing themselves.
It's clear that Canada and Europe both moving away from US military equipment are starting to do so already.
The tariffs being a thing, then not being a thing, then being a thing again. You betcha that everyone will try to minimize its reliance on the US because the US simply is unreliable. Most of what Europe does the US can do to some degree.
Sure you might not get a car that is on the same level of quality as a Mercedes but it can still be a pretty nice car. Doing what Asia does however, there's some economies of scale there and groupings of certain industries allowing for rapid innovation that might be hard to replicate.

I know the western opinion is often "cheap Chinese crap" and a lot of it is, but a lot of it isn't. Just look at how rapidly some tech innovations get pushed through around Shenzen. The line between manufacturer and hardware designer is very short and the lack of / much weak patent systems allows for much quicker innovation.
I often see it with tech products where the cheap Chinese brands are years ahead of the west. Hotswappable, pre-lubed sound dampened optionally wireless keyboard? Could find that on aliexpress 8 years ago for $60 and just about a year ago it started becoming a thing in the west with the big brands but at $180-280.
There's now a big surge in keyboards with one or two screens on them (full IPS/AMOLED panels) betcha it'll be a while before that gets popular amongst the big brands here.
Lian-Li's unifan system where you click them together? I see some companies coming up with their own versions like Phanteks but oh boy are those expensive. Meanwhile Chinese manufacturers crank tons of them out and at basically no additional costs (and why should it cost it much more, pogo-pins aren't a new invention. Sticking them on a fan hub is a novel thing but not something that should be patented leading to massive cost increases.

I'd be a-okay with China and the west coming to the table about the whole copyright/patent system and loosening it up for both sides. The west is far too eager to apply it on everything which leads to companies which have no role other than suing other companies over patents they bought from other companies (that should never be a business model). A lot of them don't even hold up in court when push to comes to shove due to prior art. The Chinese approach is too lax. Actual innovations that took a lot of research and costs are just straight up copied, or worse the factory making the product straight up sells the blueprints off. China has reached a level of wealth and innovation where they'll want to start protecting their own inventions, the West has gone overboard...
Time to come to the table and reach a international middle ground.

When you play both sides, you don't stick to prior agreements. That's how you play both sides in the first place.

Again, the point is that the world economy's been driven by the U.S. dollar used for trade and the U.S. having to take on increasing borrowing and spending to cover five decades of trade deficits as a result of the use of its dollar for world trade.

And that debt level's not sustainable in any way. Meanwhile, as countries start becoming richer because they'd been selling to the U.S., then they start moving away from the dollar.

And the debts of the U.S. are still there. What do you think will happen after that?

 

[monkeylove]

Basically what I see in this discussion is a great divide in opinions within the US. A strong USA would be united within backed by strong allies (especially Canada)
That’s currently the biggest issue in my opinion - as a president you’re supposed to be a unifying force, that builds prosperity and trust from both sides of the two party state - it reduces tension and keeps everyone working for the same goals.
Second job is to make sure your allies have faith in how you run your country, to be fair, to build trust and based on that, you’ll get the best trade deals and people on your side globally.

I mean, currently it just looks like someone ate testosterone with their breakfast and decided to lash out at everyone - and then blame it on everyone else when they didn’t react to those tantrums as you expected them to.
We live in a world where you just can’t go back to isolating yourselves as a country or you’ll be left behind quickly.
The US may have put a pause on tariffs now, and said out loud you won’t invade the territory of a NATO ally after some heavy pressure, but the trust in the US leadership isn’t great anymore, or even good - it’s already making ripples to a point where investmens will be put towards other markets. Some companies will invest in the US - it won't be on consumer goods, too expensive to manufacture, it'll be restricted to markets where people will pay extra to get premium (AI servers, premium business products etc.). There won't be any big investments in making smaller items people will deem to expensive, especially as protectionism might end with the current president term.

I think the USA is great, I really do - no other country in the world has managed to breed success like the US - it's just sad to see how people over there now seems to focus on "beating the other side" instead of building a better country in a bipartisan way.

The U.S. allowed the dollar to be used for world trade in order to maintain economic stability and prevent a third world war. Because of that, U.S. economic growth started a downward trend starting in the 1960s, followed by growing trade deficits starting in 1975, and increasing spending covered by growing debts started in 1981 thanks to financial deregulation.

Debt levels are now so high the U.S. has to borrow more each time just to cover part of the interest rate of previous debts. In short, total debt's impossible to pay, and it kept rising because many countries need to use the dollar for trade.

Around two decades ago, those countries that were using the dollar for trade and selling to the U.S., which the U.S. was buying thanks to increasing amounts of debt created, and made possible because countries were using the dollar for trade, became richer, and are now starting to move away from the dollar.

The U.S. does not want, which is why decades ago it used its military industrial complex to play both sides and bully other countries, while encircling China and Russia, in order to keep many countries weak and thus continuously dependent on the dollar and even on U.S. aid. But that's not working because BRICS and emerging markets continue to gain economic strength.

At some point, they'll take over the global economy and will have less use for the dollar. What happens to the U.S. with all that debt?

 

[godrilla]

At some point, they'll take over the global economy and will have less use for the dollar. What happens to the U.S. with all that debt?

What happens to the U.S. with all that debt?
We default on our debt and our creditors will own us. Chinese farms in the state/ property is just the foreshadowing. Leftist who ignored previous Potus cognition are now experts on trade.
Daily reminder when they canceled Trump they canceled themselves, now they cry insider trading but the timeline outside of regurgitated misinformation says otherwise!

 

[BogdanR]

What happens to the U.S. with all that debt?
We default on our debt and our creditors will own us. Chinese farms in the state/ property is just the foreshadowing. Leftist who ignored previous Potus cognition are now experts on trade.
Daily reminder when they canceled Trump they canceled themselves, now they cry insider trading but the timeline outside of regurgitated misinformation says otherwise!

Funny you should mention the debt, your MAGA Congres representatives doesn’t seem to care all that much. They are just adding another around 5 trillion to it.

As per BBC:

“The US House of Representatives has passed a budget bill that includes trillions of dollars in cuts to both taxes and government spending, despite opposition from Democrats and Republican hard-liners.”

“The spending plan is a key plank in Donald Trump's legislative agenda and he has called it a "big, beautiful bill".

“After the 216-214 vote on Thursday, Trump posted on social media: "Congratulations to the House on the passage of a Bill that sets the stage for one of the Greatest and Most Important Signings in the History of our Country."

“However the House bill has deeper spending cuts than the one passed by the Senate, and the two versions must be merged into one bill for Trump to sign into law.”

“The merger process is called "reconciliation" - and further legislation will be needed to enact the bigger tax cuts that Trump has asked for. “

“The House plan, currently a broad blueprint with many details still to be worked out, would cut taxes by about $5 trillion (£3.9 trillion). “

“Over the next decade, it would also add $5.7 trillion to the US government's debt, according to Reuters. The Treasury reports that US debt currently stands at around $36 trillion.”

 

[godrilla]

Funny you should mention the debt, your MAGA Congres representatives doesn’t seem to care all that much. They are just adding another around 5 trillion to it.

As per BBC:

“The US House of Representatives has passed a budget bill that includes trillions of dollars in cuts to both taxes and government spending, despite opposition from Democrats and Republican hard-liners.”

“The spending plan is a key plank in Donald Trump's legislative agenda and he has called it a "big, beautiful bill".

“After the 216-214 vote on Thursday, Trump posted on social media: "Congratulations to the House on the passage of a Bill that sets the stage for one of the Greatest and Most Important Signings in the History of our Country."

“However the House bill has deeper spending cuts than the one passed by the Senate, and the two versions must be merged into one bill for Trump to sign into law.”

“The merger process is called "reconciliation" - and further legislation will be needed to enact the bigger tax cuts that Trump has asked for. “

“The House plan, currently a broad blueprint with many details still to be worked out, would cut taxes by about $5 trillion (£3.9 trillion). “

“Over the next decade, it would also add $5.7 trillion to the US government's debt, according to Reuters. The Treasury reports that US debt currently stands at around $36 trillion.”

less bias take.
Mounting Debt Levels Pose ‘Significant Risks’ to Fiscal, Economic Outlook: CBO https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_...nomic-outlook-cbo-5832462?utm_source=andshare

 

[BogdanR]

less bias take.
Mounting Debt Levels Pose ‘Significant Risks’ to Fiscal, Economic Outlook: CBO https://link.theepochtimes.com/mkt_...nomic-outlook-cbo-5832462?utm_source=andshare

Heh, Epoch Times? Less bias? Really?
And the link is from March so it is BEFORE the House voted to add another 5 trillion to US debt.
So far, apart from “owning the libs”, Administration has accomplished very little except folding to Putin, voting with North Korea and torching ALL the traditional alliances.

The “accomplishments” are taking a chainsaw to the government, while backing out of the 2 trillion of savings promised, causing a run from the greenback and, of course, wiping a cool 10 trillion from the economy, while looking to add another 5 trillion to the already crippling 36 existent ones.

Did I miss anything?

Oh!!!! What’s the price of eggs?