UK reveals ambitious plan to power every home with wind energy by 2030

TheBigT42

Posts: 531   +455
I have full confidence in the Conservatives to make good on this promise.... /s

Ambitious? £160 million is very small change when they have just "spaffed" £13 billion on a non-working track and trace system. A system that had been designed to run critical processes using an out-of-date Microsoft Excel spreadsheet... it amazes me that the BBC will toe Gov lines putting this all down as simply a "computer error".

Just as PM Johnson promised to build 40 new hospitals, train 50,000 nurses or deliver 20,000 new police officers (which is still down from the 21,000 the Tory's cut previously since 2010) this is the latest in a long line of soundbites designed to print headlines for those who don't normally follow politics.

You are correct...It wasn't a computer error. Excel behaved as designed. It was bad human decision making to use a product for something it wasn't designed to do.

I guess they never heard of a Database. I also guess they didn't even consult their IT department or if they did they ignored their recommendations/
 

bexwhitt

Posts: 534   +218
Another big government waste of taxpayer money IMO.Wind turbines are expensive to make, install and the maintenance is very high.They mainly exist to appease environmentalists and avoid carbon taxes prevalent in the EU. The money would better be spent on either nuclear or natural gas plants.
Wind power is one of the cheapest ways to make electricity far cheaper if not as flexible as Combined Cycle Gas Turbine. The problem I see with this announcement is its typical tory nimbyism as Onshore wind generation where suitable is far cheaper than offshore. Then there is the ongoing climate crisis having more CO2 preleasing generation (gas) now would be the wrong thing for the world.
The UK has a base 5.9 GW Nuclear (about 20%)which is to be added to by Hinkley C (less EOL closures)
The UK already has enough Combined Cycle Gas Turbine generation and doesn't need any more.
 

bexwhitt

Posts: 534   +218
I have full confidence in the Conservatives to make good on this promise.... /s

Ambitious? £160 million is very small change when they have just "spaffed" £13 billion on a non-working track and trace system. A system that had been designed to run critical processes using an out-of-date Microsoft Excel spreadsheet... it amazes me that the BBC will toe Gov lines putting this all down as simply a "computer error".

Just as PM Johnson promised to build 40 new hospitals, train 50,000 nurses or deliver 20,000 new police officers (which is still down from the 21,000 the Tory's cut previously since 2010) this is the latest in a long line of soundbites designed to print headlines for those who don't normally follow politics.
The UK hasn't spent 13 Billion on track and trace that's just nonsense.
 

p51d007

Posts: 2,718   +2,052
I'm not a fan of wind turbines, not only because they are useless in many parts of the world, but also large wind turbines require dedicated maintenance by large companies, which costs a lot. With solar panels however, maintenance can be carried out by any private individual. And efficiency of solar panels keeps going up, which is not the case with wind turbines.

In the long run, the cost of installation and maintenance of large wind turbines doesn't pay back. With solar panels however, they do pay for themselves, and it keeps improving.

And when the panels have to be replaced, what do you do with the caustic & hazardous materials?
 

Vulcanproject

Posts: 1,351   +2,366
The UK should have next generation nuclear for base load and being an island with an awful lot of coast and strong wind conditions then turbines make a lot of sense. On the east coast and Scotland in particular, since the North Sea is shallow, accessible to a lot of decent sized ports and has an industrial history which can maintain them reasonably well.

All these anti nuclear zealots fail to understand how safe the technology is today, and how you always need a strong base load supply when you have extremely variable renewables such as wind. Especially if you plan to electrify millions of cars!

The main problem for nuclear is simply the cost, with extremely strict regulations in place. Waste storage is also a major issue because unlike the USA there is little room to just shove it under a geologically stable mountain in the middle of a desert somewhere. But then the USA can't even do that.

Reprocessing is the best way to deal with waste but that's also expensive and the main UK plant that has done it for the past two decades has been decommissioned. In fact the business case for reprocessing is considered so weak and the nature of the industry being quite specialised the USA has no reprocessing. Carter effectively banned it. There has been quite a lot of pushing to get a plant built but it's not quite got full momentum yet. Suck it up and let the French build a national one and the industry is set.
 

toooooot

Posts: 1,469   +736
They can learn a thing or two from California and their recent blackouts. Fools, they are all fools when they sacrifice common sense for green energy.
 

Lounds

Posts: 797   +710
I have full confidence in the Conservatives to make good on this promise.... /s

Ambitious? £160 million is very small change when they have just "spaffed" £13 billion on a non-working track and trace system. A system that had been designed to run critical processes using an out-of-date Microsoft Excel spreadsheet... it amazes me that the BBC will toe Gov lines putting this all down as simply a "computer error".

Just as PM Johnson promised to build 40 new hospitals, train 50,000 nurses or deliver 20,000 new police officers (which is still down from the 21,000 the Tory's cut previously since 2010) this is the latest in a long line of soundbites designed to print headlines for those who don't normally follow politics.
I wish they'd just cancel HS2 and use that money to invest in broadband infrastructure and Green energy production. Tbf it's weird seeing Tories using Kane's as a way of keeping the economy afloat. Although the 95% mortgage thing is a dumb thing to announce in a time where job security isn't guaranteed currently.
 
The UK hasn't spent 13 Billion on track and trace that's just nonsense.
Okay you're right. I checked and it was 12b. Note that I didn't say they spent this on the spreadsheet alone.

This figure has been flouted on the radio this week and a quick search finds many articles in July where the Gov had already allocated £10b.
source The Independent - Government has set aside £10bn for test and trace system for England

There's the Stella Creasy MP bringing this up with Matt Hancock in Parliament.
source Twitter - Stella Creasy - We have lost a vital week in the fight against the spread of this virus because of a problem with spreadsheets... we're paying £12billion to private companies
 

neeyik

Posts: 1,876   +2,190
Staff member
Reprocessing is the best way to deal with waste but that's also expensive and the main UK plant that has done it for the past two decades has been decommissioned.
Not quite decommissioned yet, just no longer reprocessing (for the reasons you pointed out). I was at the plant last year and they were handling freshly delivered spent fuel rods while I was there.
 

Vulcanproject

Posts: 1,351   +2,366
Not quite decommissioned yet, just no longer reprocessing (for the reasons you pointed out). I was at the plant last year and they were handling freshly delivered spent fuel rods while I was there.

Yeah, I meant the reprocessing side is decommissioned. They will be storing waste there for decades just yet but all reprocessing work has ceased.
 

neeyik

Posts: 1,876   +2,190
Staff member
MPR and THORP won't be decommissioned for many more years, as they've only just finished (or just about will be) reprocessing the last of the Magnox, MOX, and experimental fuel rods (last year's status report indicated there was less than 20 to do). But they'll be left well alone for a number of decades before the actual disassembly of the facilities commences, to allow new waste treatment facilities to be built (and it provides a handy bit of time for radiation levels to drop too).

Edit: About 10 years ago, I used to lecture on and part-manage the only nuclear decommissioning degree programme in the UK at the time, based not far from Sellafield itself. The students on the course were mostly THORP-based, and they were already well into the planning of the shutdown back then; but there was always this vain hope that some magical provider of fuel rods would keep it going.
 
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Vulcanproject

Posts: 1,351   +2,366
MPR and THORP won't be decommissioned for many more years, as they've only just finished (or just about will be) reprocessing the last of the Magnox, MOX, and experimental fuel rods (last year's status report indicated there was less than 20 to do). But they'll be left well alone for a number of decades before the actual disassembly of the facilities commences, to allow new waste treatment facilities to be built (and it provides a handy bit of time for radiation levels to drop too).

Edit: About 10 years ago, I used to lecture on and part-manage the only nuclear decommissioning degree programme in the UK at the time, based not far from Sellafield itself. The students on the course were mostly THORP-based, and they were already well into the planning of the shutdown back then; but there was always this vain hope that some magical provider of fuel rods would keep it going.

I had believed that the schedule for MAGNOX reprocessing was to be finished by now, but Covid apparently delayed proceedings.

Having just checked up on it they ramped it back up again in August, so it should be done for early 2021. So you're right that it isn't quite finished yet, but on the home stretch.
 

neeyik

Posts: 1,876   +2,190
Staff member
THORP was a farce right from the start. So much money poured into something that didn't come anywhere near to paying it back. As pro-nuclear as I am, the excessive costs and poor profitability makes it very questionable as to what kind of future it can possible have - no wonder the likes of Hitachi bailed out of it all.
 

Markoni35

Posts: 1,066   +433
Just by watching the stats on Steam you'll be able to guess the weather in UK.

"Look, only 1% of players from the UK. Obviously, it's a calm day without wind, the entire country was left without electricity."
 

bexwhitt

Posts: 534   +218
Okay you're right. I checked and it was 12b. Note that I didn't say they spent this on the spreadsheet alone.

This figure has been flouted on the radio this week and a quick search finds many articles in July where the Gov had already allocated £10b.
source The Independent - Government has set aside £10bn for test and trace system for England

There's the Stella Creasy MP bringing this up with Matt Hancock in Parliament.
source Twitter - Stella Creasy - We have lost a vital week in the fight against the spread of this virus because of a problem with spreadsheets... we're paying £12billion to private companies
Has set aside is not has spent. The UK government is and was always crap at IT spend and will probably spend that mostly to their mates which is the tory way.
 

Reehahs

Posts: 1,192   +820
The UK hasn't spent 13 Billion on track and trace that's just nonsense.

UK spent £130 on the Excel license for it and rest went to Tory' mates.

The amount of investment for wind power is a load of air... UK weather isn't warm enough for hot air.