US proposes a five-part "Clean Network" plan that could lead to a "splinternet"

candle_86

Posts: 539   +446
Untested does not mean ineffective. And in the context of large-scale operations against a symmetric foe, the US Navy is almost equally untested. Their stand-off missions in Afghanistan and Iraq hardly count. China conducts large-scale exercises, and so do we. Whose models are the more effective?

They have a substantive submarine fleet capable of launching both nuclear ICBMS and tactical weapons. It is true that the majority of their submarine fleet uses diesel-electric propulsion (though they do have a small contingent of nuclear-propelled subs), however these subs are as quiet or quieter than nuclear versions, and in the context of carrier-group escort and local ASW operations, equally effective.

Very true. However, they are developing tactics for 21st-century conflicts. Our carrier tactics are largely based on what we learned from WWII and the Cold War, and it is unclear how appropriate those doctrines are.
Compared to our subs though they are noisey. We can commit forces to sinking the Chinese navy and would very likely do it with a minimum of losses. China won't retaliate with nuclear weapons as they know ours are larger and far longer range and they'd loose any diplomatic channels.

China is on its own they have no serious strategic partners while the us has the NATO of the Pacific with the big players being Japan, Philippines, South Korea, Australia, and US Pacific Command. Australia being an ally guarantees the Commonwealth countries would intervene so Canada, India, UK, ECT would all come to aid Australia in a war and Australia has no interest in China becoming dominate in the region. The deck is stacked agasint China.
 
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Endymio

Posts: 593   +474
Compared to our subs though they are noisey.
China's diesel-electric subs are reputedly the quietest made. It is easier to reduce the decibels when you don't have to silence a nuclear reactor, after all.

China won't retaliate with nuclear weapons as they know ours are larger and far longer range
Eh? China has had the ability to nuclear-strike any point on the globe since the 1970s. As for size, their strategic nuclear weapons are roughly the same size as our standard W-87/88s, to wit a few hundred kT. We don't have true H-bombs in our arsenal; we rely entirely on boosted-fission devices.

China [has] no serious strategic partners while the us has the NATO of the Pacific
True enough. However, it is doubtful if any of the nations you list would take action to reign in Chinese aggression unless it was directed at them specifically, and, in the case of a country like the Philippines, maybe not even then.
 
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candle_86

Posts: 539   +446
China's diesel-electric subs are reputedly the quietest made. It is easier to reduce the decibels when you don't have to silence a nuclear reactor, after all.


Eh? China has had the ability to nuclear-strike any point on the globe since the 1970s. As for size, their strategic nuclear weapons are roughly the same size as our standard W-87/88s, to wit a few hundred kT. We don't have true H-bombs in our arsenal; we rely entirely on boosted-fission devices.


True enough. However, it is doubtful if any of the nations you list would take action to reign in Chinese aggression unless it was directed at them specifically, and, in the case of a country like the Philippines, maybe not even then.
Size as in numbers of warheads, China is in the 100s we are in the middle 1000s

As for their subs US naval planners disagree, I think it was last year a naval officers was interviewed on national interest about it, right now any sub China puts to sea we shadow and we don't loose them. Diesel also has the biggest flaw of range and the need to come to the surface to recharge the batteries as you can't run a diesel engine underwater,it seriously limits their range.

As for our Allies they are all nervous about China, none of them will act unless America does first simply because they alone can't fight China.
 
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Endymio

Posts: 593   +474
Size as in numbers of warheads, China is in the 100s we are in the middle 1000s
No. The 300-odd "official" number of Chinese warheads hasn't budged since the mid-1980s. It is nonsensical to think that China -- signatory to no treaty whatsoever to restrict its nuclear arsenal -- has left its strategic nuclear forces untouched during a 30+ year period in which its conventional military spending has risen nearly 100-fold. In fact, a Georgetown University paper a few years ago -- based on reports from Chinese defectors -- stated that China's actual warhead count exceeds 3,000, mostly based on mobile launchers in a subterranean tunnel system. That puts it exactly on par with the US.

right now any sub China puts to sea we shadow and we don't loose them.
Patently incorrect. The US 7th Fleet's Task Force 74 comprises our Pacific submarine forces, and generally numbers perhaps a dozen plus boats. The entire US Navy worldwide only has 50-odd submarines in commission (excluding the Ohios, which of course don't "shadow" other subs). China's PLAN, on the other hand, numbers at least 75 boats...the largest sub fleet in the world. We don't have nearly the resources to shadow them all. We have a few surface ships in the 7th Fleet that could be pressed into surface, in the shallow waters of the South China Sea. But they would be utterly useless in such a role in the Pacific. We may be shadowing the small number of submarines the PLAN chooses to send out on long-range solo missions ... but this is only a fraction of their entire fleet.

Diesel also has the biggest flaw of range and the need to come to the surface to recharge the batteries
Perhaps you didn't read my earlier post. In the context of ASW operations, carrier group escort and similar roles, the reduced range in no way limits the capabilities of a diesel-electric sub. Further, China has nuclear-powered subs -- the Type 95 fast-attack, the 96 SSBN, and some older models as well.
 
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hyperspaced

Posts: 34   +11
The US is reaping what it sowed 30 years ago when it comes to China. Companies shifting their production lines from US and Europe to China (contributing to China's huge growth) in order to increase their profit margins. Economical "confinement"? Too little, too late. China owns Asia and has it hands around Europe as well.

"Great firewall"? Really? You can buy a Xiaomi phone with the same specs with and at 1/3 of the price of an iPhone (which are built in China by the way, lol). When the switch "flicks", those phones, routers, smart devices, etc. will swarm the US/European networks with data.

Military-wise, you will need to take into account Russia as well. With Russian technology, the Chinese are unbeatable. As said, China dominates all Asia, from Turkey to Japan. In 10 years' time, by 2030, the world will be MUCH different.

The US, with a series of *****S running foreign affairs for the last 40-50 years, has managed to become from the world's leader to a bully. Arab Spring and Syria are the latest "achievements".
 
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Angga B

Posts: 95   +90
Oh Techspot, here you come again. First, of course you know that there are many data breaches happened in many huge companies already, in US and all over the world. Shall that happened inside a China company you will never know. Infact you will also never know whether it was breaches or simply shortcut channeling.

Second, in any network security class it is imperative to isolate a heavily infested network into an island to its own, to stop the "diseases" from transmitting to the global network. If wouldn't made a splinternet of the world wide web, only some part which has never really incorporated either due to full censorship inside that part of network.

The interweb will survive without that part of network and everyone will be willing to isolate diseases, case in point with actual beer virus we globally have today. The other way around, I am not yet convinced that part of network will survive on its own weight.

The way you write this article, it is almost like you are being sponsored by something, somewhere. Which is scary for me.
 

candle_86

Posts: 539   +446
The US is reaping what it sowed 30 years ago when it comes to China. Companies shifting their production lines from US and Europe to China (contributing to China's huge growth) in order to increase their profit margins. Economical "confinement"? Too little, too late. China owns Asia and has it hands around Europe as well.

"Great firewall"? Really? You can buy a Xiaomi phone with the same specs with and at 1/3 of the price of an iPhone (which are built in China by the way, lol). When the switch "flicks", those phones, routers, smart devices, etc. will swarm the US/European networks with data.

Military-wise, you will need to take into account Russia as well. With Russian technology, the Chinese are unbeatable. As said, China dominates all Asia, from Turkey to Japan. In 10 years' time, by 2030, the world will be MUCH different.

The US, with a series of *****S running foreign affairs for the last 40-50 years, has managed to become from the world's leader to a bully. Arab Spring and Syria are the latest "achievements".
Russian technology is obsolete for the most part, and the advancements they are making are being crippled by sanctions, Russia isn't really a threat except for their very old, very outdated icbm's.

And yes we can isolate China, and Arab spring is the fault of those countries abuse of their people and a want to have greater freedoms, aka real Democracy that's a purely Western idea so good on us exporting the want of democracy, we just need to get that into China, if the Chinese people where willing to rise up they could topple the PRC.
 
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QuantumPhysics

Posts: 3,490   +3,333
So your advice is that we simply give up, and allow an authoritarian government to steal trillions of dollars of our intellectual property, invade our private government and corporate networks at will, decimate our high-tech industries, militarily oppress neighbors

IN OTHER NEWS: “President” Trump attempts to usurp constitutional powers from the congress in order to buy votes for his failing re-election campaign...
 
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Angga B

Posts: 95   +90
IN OTHER NEWS: “President” Trump attempts to usurp constitutional powers from the congress in order to buy votes for his failing re-election campaign...
When the dems and congress did it, it was act of compassion. But when orangeman did it, it was money politics.
It feels good to not have any principles, I guess. One can be shapeshifter anyway one want.
 

QuantumPhysics

Posts: 3,490   +3,333
You mean he helped out the American people with the limited options he could because Congress decided it needs 3 weeks off paid by the tax payers?

No: I mean this pathetic failure doesn’t understand Constitutional limitations of the presidency because he thinks he’s running another of his BANKRUPTCIES.

I want those welfare checks to fail.

America needs to feel the pain right up till November.

No more Trump welfare checks.
 

hyperspaced

Posts: 34   +11
Russian technology is obsolete for the most part, and the advancements they are making are being crippled by sanctions, Russia isn't really a threat except for their very old, very outdated icbm's.
Do these seem familiar to you? S-400, S-500, P-800 Oniks, hypersonic missiles, Su-57 (PAK-FA), T-14 [the list goes on...] Russia has come a long way the last 15 years.

And yes we can isolate China, and Arab spring is the fault of those countries abuse of their people and a want to have greater freedoms, aka real Democracy that's a purely Western idea so good on us exporting the want of democracy, we just need to get that into China, if the Chinese people where willing to rise up they could topple the PRC.
Dude, do you have any idea what is happening right now in Libya or in Syria or in Iraq? They are in civil war for years! The result of the "Arab Spring"! In Syria alone, hundreds of thousands dead, millions of refugees, women raped, children amputated. What democracy? Are you this naive?
 
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candle_86

Posts: 539   +446
No: I mean this pathetic failure doesn’t understand Constitutional limitations of the presidency because he thinks he’s running another of his BANKRUPTCIES.

I want those welfare checks to fail.

America needs to feel the pain right up till November.

No more Trump welfare checks.
Ah the truth comes out, liberals want Americans to suffer because they didn't get their way 4 years ago, want to know a secret we already knew Democrats where already intentionally wrecking the economy and being spin doctors on the truth. It wasn't a secret.
 

unloco101

Posts: 17   +3
Future energy?! Nahhh, all our money is staying in oil! lmao How else can they validate the war in the middle east?
 

panama patrick

Posts: 7   +1
This is all basically about containing China without having to go to war to do it...but the more they do this kind of stuff, the more likely a war there will be.
Well, it appears that Communist China has already declared war on us by releasing the Corona Virus Pandemic on us!!!

 

panama patrick

Posts: 7   +1
To all you President Trump haters, ha ha ha, he will be reelected in a landslide in November. China releasing the Pandemic and the Democrats releasing 'Defund the Police' and all the Antifa/BLM destruction will see to that!!! Can't wait.
 
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candle_86

Posts: 539   +446
To all you President Trump haters, ha ha ha, he will be reelected in a landslide in November. China releasing the Pandemic and the Democrats releasing 'Defund the Police' and all the Antifa/BLM destruction will see to that!!! Can't wait.
Shush don't tell them that, they may do some research and find out after wide spread rioting and demonstrations the middle ground folks tend to vote for law and order on the ballot. Happened in the 60s, happened in the 80s, and it will happen again. Lawlessness always lead to a strong pro police government every single time.