Windows 7 and 8 users might get a free upgrade path to Windows 11

umbala

Posts: 371   +487
I'm tired of windows. Soon I will be running 7 just for games and zorin for the rest
So you're going to run a version of Linux that mimics Windows, but doesn't actually run the Windows apps that 99.9% of people use? Great idea! I'm going to convert my horse drawn carriage to look like a Ferrari!
 

arrowflash

Posts: 432   +466
Here we go again. M$ "Spend hours reinstalling every piece of software you have already installed on our new latest, greatest, built especially for you POS OS because we are far too lazy to provide a simplified upgrade path."

I don't know about others, but I am getting rather tired of this "do a fresh install" response from M$ especially after one of my PCs failed an update and the only thing M$ "tech support" could say was "do a fresh install." Like everyone in that situation has time to spend reinstalling everything if something goes wrong with an "upgrade" that just will not run.

I agree, but to be fair, in this case we're talking about leaked beta software. Not that it doesn't happen plenty in consumer builds...

But that's nothing new. Since the Windows 3.0 days, Windows has never handled upgrade installs well and since these ancient times, doing a fresh install can fix most problems that arise in upgrade installs. Sucks, but I've learned to take it as a fact of life at this point. And to be fair, while not as prevalent or serious as in Windows, even Linux has gave me problems caused by upgrade installs...

I do have a few measures I created to make fresh installs less painful and time-consuming. I build Windows emergency reinstall images with all third-party software I use preinstalled and all customized and optimized settings, using dism + sysprep. To prepare new builds / installs, I've created a set of batch files and reg keys with all customized settings for all third-party software I use, that I can install with a single click. It's a lot of work and time spent to get this setup ready, but well worth it - still less work and time than it takes to do everything manually each time.
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,137   +4,409
I agree, but to be fair, in this case we're talking about leaked beta software. Not that it doesn't happen plenty in consumer builds...

But that's nothing new. Since the Windows 3.0 days, Windows has never handled upgrade installs well and since these ancient times, doing a fresh install can fix most problems that arise in upgrade installs. Sucks, but I've learned to take it as a fact of life at this point. And to be fair, while not as prevalent or serious as in Windows, even Linux has gave me problems caused by upgrade installs...

I do have a few measures I created to make fresh installs less painful and time-consuming. I build Windows emergency reinstall images with all third-party software I use preinstalled and all customized and optimized settings, using dism + sysprep. To prepare new builds / installs, I've created a set of batch files and reg keys with all customized settings for all third-party software I use, that I can install with a single click. It's a lot of work and time spent to get this setup ready, but well worth it - still less work and time than it takes to do everything manually each time.
What third-party tools do you use?

Thanks.
 

arrowflash

Posts: 432   +466
What third-party tools do you use?

Thanks.

I'm not sure I understood your question... you mean, third party tools for doing the things I described in the last paragraph of my previous comment?

None. You don't need any third party tools for these things. However it's obviously not something suitable for an average or even power user - it requires advanced / sysadmin user level...

I think there exist some third party tools that try to automate some of these processes for less advanced users, I tried a few of them, but I never found one that worked well.
 

Nobina

Posts: 3,148   +3,050
It may as well be called Windows OSXI. It's still Windows 10 at the core, I'll just stick with Windows 10 until they force me off, hopefully they will unApple the OS.
They won't unApple the OS, like Google, they will copy bad parts of Apple OSes and not the good ones because that's easy. They badly need to learn to stick to what they're good at and not be a copycat because they actually have advantages over MacOS yet they will throw it all away to appear "hip" like Apple.
 

TorturedChaos

Posts: 831   +38
"Judging from the reaction of people who've installed the leaked build, Windows 11 should run well even on old hardware, as long as it supports TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot."

Tried installing Windows 11 on a 7-year old machine that runs Windows 10 just fine. AMD CPU (Phenom II or the one right after it I think), AMD RX 550, 16gb RAM and 500gb drive. Up comes the "you don't meet minimum requirements" message and install stopped.
Based on the LTT video I watched yesterday MS may have locked down the current version that was leaked to VM's only. LTT tried to install it on a half dozen machines with that same error message, but no issue with a VM in VirtualBox.
 

arrowflash

Posts: 432   +466
Based on the LTT video I watched yesterday MS may have locked down the current version that was leaked to VM's only. LTT tried to install it on a half dozen machines with that same error message, but no issue with a VM in VirtualBox.
Since the leak was obviously intentional, this makes a lot of sense.
 

RudyBob

Posts: 81   +81
So you're going to run a version of Linux that mimics Windows, but doesn't actually run the Windows apps that 99.9% of people use? Great idea! I'm going to convert my horse drawn carriage to look like a Ferrari!
I am glad you care enough to point that out to me...ahhhh
 

wiyosaya

Posts: 6,137   +4,409
I'm not sure I understood your question... you mean, third party tools for doing the things I described in the last paragraph of my previous comment?

None. You don't need any third party tools for these things. However it's obviously not something suitable for an average or even power user - it requires advanced / sysadmin user level...

I think there exist some third party tools that try to automate some of these processes for less advanced users, I tried a few of them, but I never found one that worked well.
Sorry. I misread your post. You said "Third Party Software" by which I assume you mean programs installed on a particular instance of Windows rather than "Third Party Tools" which to me would have meant that you use third party tools to migrate installed software to a new PC.

However, if you were able to figure out how to migrate the programs you already have installed on an instance of Windows to a fresh install, M$ should be able to do this as well, and, IMO, they should do so. From my perspective, it would be one of the best things that M$ has ever done for their users. Right now, it seems they just don't care how much time the average user has to spend reinstalling software after a fresh install. IMO, it would be in their best interests to do so, and would do much for their not-so-stellar reputation.

There is one thing that I have figured out from the registry. I have a modem in a Windows PC that has a caller ID feature that I use to display incoming calls on that PC, which is a HTPC, while myself and/or my wife are watching something. I had to hack the registry so that the caller ID responses are recognized by windows. Each time there is a significant upgrade to windows, the registry section that tells windows what those caller ID responses are from the modem is over-written since windows is kind enough :rolleyes: to reinstall the "modem driver". The driver is really only registry entries. So I have saved that section of the registry to a .reg file and have to re-run it after the "modem driver" is so kindly reinstalled by windows.
 

Knot Schure

Posts: 369   +173
Installed it on a VM yesterday morning and used a Windows 7 Pro key to activate it without any issues, the host hardware is X99 based for what that's worth. Runs as can be expected, still the same Windows under the hood as far as I can tell, just a new GUI which I already don't care for.

Looking forward to all the angry people who get upgraded and then lash out about the new GUI, I already expect to run a shell replacement on any machine I upgrade to this OS, problem solved no need to make a big deal about this.

I'm keeping X99 BECAUSE it can run Win 7 perfectly, so not going to change that.

People who get upgraded automatically who lash out? So if I remotely changed your computer over to Ubuntu, you wouldn't complain?
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,980   +5,757
You Windows 10, "proud adopters", and Windows 11, "wannabes", really owe a debt of gratitude to we, "Windows 7 Luddite holdouts". Because when we're gone, M$ and Nadella will be able to do whatever the f**k they want, to you, or with you..
 

DjoCoeur

Posts: 29   +13
"Judging from the reaction of people who've installed the leaked build, Windows 11 should run well even on old hardware, as long as it supports TPM 2.0 and Secure Boot."

Tried installing Windows 11 on a 7-year old machine that runs Windows 10 just fine. AMD CPU (Phenom II or the one right after it I think), AMD RX 550, 16gb RAM and 500gb drive. Up comes the "you don't meet minimum requirements" message and install stopped.
I installed the leaked build on a 2009 computer that has a Core2duo and no support for SecureBoot and probably no TPM2. It works like a charm. However to be able to install, the USB boot media must be modified as explained in this video

I guess though that some security features won't run and won't update
 

arrowflash

Posts: 432   +466
Sorry. I misread your post. You said "Third Party Software" by which I assume you mean programs installed on a particular instance of Windows rather than "Third Party Tools" which to me would have meant that you use third party tools to migrate installed software to a new PC.

However, if you were able to figure out how to migrate the programs you already have installed on an instance of Windows to a fresh install, M$ should be able to do this as well, and, IMO, they should do so. From my perspective, it would be one of the best things that M$ has ever done for their users. Right now, it seems they just don't care how much time the average user has to spend reinstalling software after a fresh install. IMO, it would be in their best interests to do so, and would do much for their not-so-stellar reputation.

Oh, I see. Answering that old question then, third party programs I use (and migrate their settings using this method) are too many to mention... :p

However, in this case I can understand Microsoft not making a tool that helps in exporting and importing program settings like you're suggesting... if there was a clear cut standard that all programs followed to the letter (most likely being forced by the OS to do so), it could've been possible. But there isn't a standard and programs save user and system settings in all sorts of ways. Some use only the registry, others use Appdata, others use ProgramData, or My Documents, or work like a portable program and save settings in config files inside their own install folder... not to mention the programs that save settings in many different places. I mostly figured out all this manually for each program. If someone created a software to automate the export/import of software settings, they'd have to keep up with all this manually, and of course re-check everything every time any software on their database gets updated with a new version.

I remember one that gave me a hard time figuring out their settings was OpenOffice / LibreOffice, since they save user settings in lots of different places all over your PC. If we ever want to truly automate this process, this sort of bs has to stop.

And of course, it's impossible to export/import settings locally in Chromium-based browsers. Even "portable" versions aren't really portable and don't carry over everything. Most settings are stored in encrypted files that are tied to the local machine.

The only way this will ever change is if future versions of Windows somehow force devs to store user/program settings in a centralized location. It has to be forced (as in, if they don't do it that way, their program won't even run), "guidelines" obviously don't work - if software developers followed guidelines this mess wouldn't exist in the first place.

There is one thing that I have figured out from the registry. I have a modem in a Windows PC that has a caller ID feature that I use to display incoming calls on that PC, which is a HTPC, while myself and/or my wife are watching something. I had to hack the registry so that the caller ID responses are recognized by windows. Each time there is a significant upgrade to windows, the registry section that tells windows what those caller ID responses are from the modem is over-written since windows is kind enough :rolleyes: to reinstall the "modem driver". The driver is really only registry entries. So I have saved that section of the registry to a .reg file and have to re-run it after the "modem driver" is so kindly reinstalled by windows.

Windows loves to reset all sorts of settings and parameters even after minor updates. I really became tired of Microsoft always resetting my custom registry tweaks to Windows Explorer (that I use to remove all the clutter and useless crap from the left side pane, to give it a look and feel closer to the Windows 95/98/2000 Explorer. All I need are my drive letters and network machines).
 

Thretosix

Posts: 97   +106
They won't unApple the OS, like Google, they will copy bad parts of Apple OSes and not the good ones because that's easy. They badly need to learn to stick to what they're good at and not be a copycat because they actually have advantages over MacOS yet they will throw it all away to appear "hip" like Apple.
Microsoft has made it way further than Apple in the desktop market space by a long long long shot. They even have a functioning laptop with touch input. The only thing that seems like it's is ripped off of Apple is the new appearance / UI in the inevitable Windows 11.
 

Adhmuz

Posts: 2,166   +963
I'm keeping X99 BECAUSE it can run Win 7 perfectly, so not going to change that.

People who get upgraded automatically who lash out? So if I remotely changed your computer over to Ubuntu, you wouldn't complain?
If you managed to do this I'd be pretty upset sure, but that's mostly because the majority of my software will not work and the GUI is dramatically different going from Windows to Linux, not really an appropriate comparison.

Windows to Windows is still Windows after all, and a solution was came up with rather quickly for those who didn't like the way the GUI was changed.

I recently had to do a clean install for an individual like yourself who refused to upgrade to Windows 10 as his SSD died, similar generation of hardware even, and it was far more of a pain in the butt then I ever remembered to get it all working correctly. Just installing Windows 7 to the NVME drive was tedious, not impossible, but far more inconvenient than installing Windows 10. Maybe just being something I haven't done in ages now as 10 has been to go to for years now made it seems like more work than I remember. However even once in the OS it felt slow and unresponsive compared to 10, I know, blasphemy, who am I to suggest the dated OS is actually slower.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to upgrade to Windows 7 from XP?
 

netman

Posts: 642   +252
"that suggests Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users will have a direct upgrade path to Windows 11 using official tools provided by Microsoft."

Not too many users will upgrade because Win 11 will also demand hardware upgrade...!
 

captaincranky

Posts: 16,980   +5,757
"that suggests Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users will have a direct upgrade path to Windows 11 using official tools provided by Microsoft."

Not too many users will upgrade because Win 11 will also demand hardware upgrade...!
And trust me, if history is any indicator, they'll credit Windows 11 with the rapid boot times, instead of the NVME drive they're now using as the C:/ drive.

I've sat through enough these threads regarding SATA 3 SSD & Windows 10 boot times to know, "you can't fix stupid".
 

Adhmuz

Posts: 2,166   +963
"that suggests Windows 7, 8, and 8.1 users will have a direct upgrade path to Windows 11 using official tools provided by Microsoft."

Not too many users will upgrade because Win 11 will also demand hardware upgrade...!
Hopefully Microsoft actually takes this seriously this time and won't allow the upgrade on hardware deemed insufficient, however I doubt this will be the case.
 

zamroni111

Posts: 190   +130
Surely, the dummies at MS will mess-up the UI, happens every time. I'm most worried about the age old Control Panel versus Settings windows. They better NOT remove functionality in the name of "improving" the OS for the ignorant.
Defer windows feature update for a year so you don't become "beta tester".

 

Knot Schure

Posts: 369   +173
If you managed to do this I'd be pretty upset sure, but that's mostly because the majority of my software will not work and the GUI is dramatically different going from Windows to Linux, not really an appropriate comparison.

Windows to Windows is still Windows after all, and a solution was came up with rather quickly for those who didn't like the way the GUI was changed.

I recently had to do a clean install for an individual like yourself who refused to upgrade to Windows 10 as his SSD died, similar generation of hardware even, and it was far more of a pain in the butt then I ever remembered to get it all working correctly. Just installing Windows 7 to the NVME drive was tedious, not impossible, but far more inconvenient than installing Windows 10. Maybe just being something I haven't done in ages now as 10 has been to go to for years now made it seems like more work than I remember. However even once in the OS it felt slow and unresponsive compared to 10, I know, blasphemy, who am I to suggest the dated OS is actually slower.

Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to upgrade to Windows 7 from XP?
Quote: "Just installing Windows 7 to the NVME drive was tedious, not impossible, but far more inconvenient than installing Windows 10." - NOT going to disagree with you at all there.

Quote: "However even once in the OS it felt slow and unresponsive compared to 10, I know, blasphemy, who am I to suggest the dated OS is actually slower." - WHO are you indeed? Every CPU benchmark I could ever find showed Win 7 to be more responsive than W10.

I was an early adopter to XP64 bit, and to Win 7 x64 too.

Its all been downhill from there...
 

cliffordcooley

Posts: 12,813   +6,171
Ironically anyone with hardware old enough to have Windows 7 and 8 may not be able to run Windows 11. So sure MS will give a free upgrade to Windows 11. That is for those using two year old HW.
 

bazz2004

Posts: 1,746   +293
So long as changes are not so bewildering that I struggle small changes don't worry me. What I'd love to see but it's never going to happen is a massively pared back version that will run on my atom netbook. It came with W7 Starter which wasn't great. I "upgraded" it to W10 which was no improvement. It now runs XP on an SSD hard drive and is pretty fast but the only browser working properly is Firefox and I can't use the netbook for anything where security might be compromised.
 
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