2nd-Gen Core i7 vs. 8th-Gen Core i7: RIP Sandy Bridge?

[FreeBetaTester]

Now compare with what AMD is doing. Recall the R7 release prices back a year ago:
https://www.anandtech.com/show/1117...-review-a-deep-dive-on-1800x-1700x-and-1700/3

Ryzen 7 1800X 8/16 3.6/4.0 16 MB 95 W $499 3/2/2017
Ryzen 7 1700X 8/16 3.4/3.8 16 MB 95 W $399 3/2/2017
Ryzen 7 1700 8/16 3.0/3.7 16 MB 65 W $329 3/2/2017

Guess what is AMD doing now for the R7 releases see:
https://hothardware.com/news/amd-ryzen-7-2600x-2700x-2nd-gen-ryzen-specs-pricing-leak-amazon
"Starting at the top, the Ryzen 7 2700X (YD270XBGAFBOX) is an 8-core/16-thread processor with a 3.7GHz base clock and 4.35GHz boost clock, according to the Amazon listing. Those are the same specs we have seen in previous leaks. The processor also has a 105W TDP and ships with AMD's Wraith Prism air cooler, which is again consistent with previous appearances. The asking price before the listing was pulled sat at $369.

It is looking increasingly likely that the Ryzen 7 2700X will be AMD's flagship mainstream desktop processor for consumers, rather than there being a Ryzen 7 2800X to replace the current generation Ryzen 7 1800X. Sitting right underneath it is the Ryzen 7 2700 (YD2700BBAFBOX), which is another 8-core/16-thread chip. It has a 3.2GHz base clock and 4.1GHz boost clock, and a friendly TDP at 65W. AMD will include the LED version of its Wraith Spire air cooler with this chip. The MSRP looks to be $299 on this one."

The 2700x will not even attempt to scrape at the $500 massively overpriced 1800x price level for their flagship processor. That is a signal to the market that ryzens had been massively overpriced at around 40% when they were released.

 

[Strawman]

According to freaking INTEL, the 7700k launched for 340-350$. Here is the link

https://ark.intel.com/products/97129/Intel-Core-i7-7700K-Processor-8M-Cache-up-to-4_50-GHz

According to the website you linked, it launched at 379.99. That's a 100$ pricecut without taking into account the rebates and the mobo bundles, which take it down another 50$ or somewhere around that.

According to the same website, the 8700k launched at 499. Currently it sells for 319.99. So wtf are you talking about?

The 7600k is rebranded into the 8350k, and it's 100+$ cheaper. That's a pricecut to my books.

But all of this is irrelevant, what's relevant is, and the one thing you haven't answered yet, is how do you determine if something is overpriced? Comparing the prices to what they were a year ago, like you are doing here, isn't an indicator of what's overpriced and what isn't. The reasons are obvious. I can give you an example that illustrates why your method is flawed if you'd like me to, but I don't really need to, since you showed that your method is flawed yourself. You mentioned the 7600k and that it's a bad value, meaning it's overpriced. Yet, you also said that it didn't have any pricedrops. Therefore, pricedrops don't determine whether something is overpriced or not, otherwise you wouldn't say that the 7600k is overpriced.

The reason we had pricedrops on the Ryzen CPU's are freaking obvious. New CPU's launched from Intel, and therefore Ryzen weren't competing with Kabylake anymore. That doesn't make them overpriced, since they were launched at pricepoints to compete against kabylake. What actually happened here is, Intel was the one doing the pricedropping, so AMD just answered it. The 4c / 4t Intel cpu moved from 250$ to 110-150$. That's a pricecut in my books, so AMD had to follow to stay competitive. What further proves my point is that the new AMD CPU's that are launching to compete against kabylake have the same launch prices as the 1st gen Ryzen!

If you look at this objectively you'll realize that AMD have kept prices in perfect accordance to the Intel pricing. For example, the R5 1600 was launched more expensive than the locked Intel 4c/4t (i5 7400 / 7500) and a tad bit cheaper than the unlocked 4c/4t (7600k). Nowadays, it's still more expensive than the locked 4c/4t i3 8100 and a bit less expensive than the unlocked 8350k. So Intel dropped the prices of the cpu's that AMD was competing against, and then AMD followed with pricedrops of their own. And that's it. Now go ahead and continue your Intel propaganda.

 

[Strawman]

The 2700x will not even attempt to scrape at the $500 massively overpriced 1800x price level for their flagship processor. That is a signal to the market that ryzens had been massively overpriced at around 40% when they were released.

Nope, that's a signal that there was no 6c/12th processor back when 1800x was released. Or, to be more precise, the one that existed cost an arm and a leg. The 1800x was competing with the HEDT platform, and we both know how much Intel dropped the prices in those, don't we? Need I remind you the 650$ pricetag of the 6850k? So of course when your competitor drops prices so will you. That doesn't make you overpriced, unless both of you are overpriced.

 

[FreeBetaTester]

.... unless both of you are overpriced.

Took you long enough to get to this simple truth. They were both massively overpriced. Being less overpriced than "bloody murder" Intel is still overpriced. The price is right when AMD returns to its roots like back in the days of the AthlonXP.

Remember those $80-$100 T-birds, bartons, thoroughbred that earned AMD their place in the hearts of PC enthusiasts. When the savings going with AMD is clear and obvious over Intel and at no risk to the enthusiasts. People that bought 1700 at $350 or 1600 at $230 took and unreasonable risk and their loss of value for their dollars is not a risk you want to impose on your buyers, considering that you can get those at $190 and $120 respectively. Nobody should have to buy something and see its price drop by more than 40% in less than a year, and on top of that you have to volunteer to go guinea pig duty to test out the architecture, platform, and deal with all sorts of difficulties.

The 1600 at $120 is value back in line with the old athlon t-birds. That is when I do not say it is overpriced. And this makes it both cost effective and worthwhile to upgrade old sandbridge systems.

 

[Strawman]

Took you long enough to get to this simple truth. They were both massively overpriced. Being less overpriced than "bloody murder" Intel is still overpriced. The price is right when AMD returns to its roots like back in the days of the AthlonXP.

No, it didn't take me anything. The problem with this kind of logic is, by calling every CPU out there overpriced the word loses it's meaning, because then you don't have a reference point to call something overpriced.

Every single Ryzen CPU was much much cheaper or vastly superior to their Intel counterpart at the pricepoint. Comparing the R5 1600 to the 6800k, you were paying 3 times the money for what? 15-20% performance? I'm sorry, I just can't call the R5 1600 overpriced, even in it's highest launching price. It was actually quite a steal, when the closest competitor pricewise was the 4c/4t piece of junk i5 7600k.

 

[FreeBetaTester]

...
According to freaking INTEL, the 7700k launched for 340-350$....
According to the website you linked, it launched at 379.99. That's a 100$ pricecut without taking into account the rebates and the mobo bundles, which take it down another 50$ or somewhere around that.....

I have no idea which magical website you attributed to me. But marked up market prices at launch day is hardly Intel's claim. This is what I remember, towards the end of 2016:

https://wccftech.com/intel-kaby-lake-core-i7-7700k-price-leak/
"
SKU Name Cores/Threads Core Clock Boost Clock L3 Cache TDP Socket Price
Core i7-7700K 4/8 4.2 GHz 4.5 GHz 8 MB 91W LGA1151 $339 US
Core i7-7700 4/8 3.6 GHz 4.2 GHz 8 MB 65W LGA1151 $303 US
Core i7-7700T 4/8 2.9 GHz 3.8 GHz 8 MB 35W LGA1151 $303 US
"

And that automatically means to mean that at Microcenter, once Intel makes it available in mass, like in spring of 2017, it would be less than $299. And guess what it was, and it has basically hovered there, sometimes with the $30 mobo discount, that comes and goes.

Now you claim, like the hyperbole's you like to do:

Every single Ryzen CPU was much much cheaper or vastly superior to their Intel counterpart at the pricepoint...

But fact is that a $500 1800x was way too expensive compared to the $300 7700K and came up way short for gaming. Of course you would cry about how if should be compared to the AMD talking point 6800k, but that is only for people who were fooled by AMD's marketing hook line and sinker. I had to replace a failing sandbridge system, the usb on the motherboard was becoming unreliable after 6 years at that point, back in April of 2017, and I made the call to go with the 7700k because this was a gaming machine. AMD lost a sale there for sure, had the 1800x been priced like their 2700x now, that might actually have swayed things in AMD's favor.

 

[FreeBetaTester]

...The problem with this kind of logic is, by calling every CPU out there overpriced the word loses it's meaning....

Reference points, comparatively, all big words with little real meaning. Sometimes the reality is everything is overpriced. No one should be afraid of calling a spade a spade. Sometimes you just have to go with your gut feeling, like the way you can see a golf shot or basketball shot. One look and you can tell if it is good or not. And everyone knows video cards, all of them "everything" in your hyperbole based language are all massively overpriced right now.

I'll show you what is not overpriced. Here is my receipt for getting a R6 1600 for basically $100. See:

You can clearly see the $30 discount with the motherboard, and the 1600 at $150. What is not seen the $20 rebate which I just got the approval from AMD rebate processing. So $150-30-20 = $100. That is like the AthlonXP, t-bird, thoroughbred, barton days that I am nostalgic for. And there was another mail-in rebate for $15 on the Asus motherboard. So essentially the whole package comes to $175.

So the release $230 price on the 1600 as announced by AMD just 10 months ago back in May of 2017, was massively overpriced. The market had to correct AMD time and time again to get its pricing to where it should be. This is the undeniable reality.

 

[Strawman]

Nope, as explained again and again, AMD launched it's Ryzen processors to compete with Kabylake. Intel then released Coffeelake, dropping the prices in the meantime (the 7600k became 8350k with a 100$ pricecut and the 7500 became 8100 with an 80$ pricecut), so AMD just followed with pricecuts themselves to remain competitive. Intel started the pricedrops, AMD just followed it. The undeniable reality is that most reviewers gave a value award to both the 1600 and the 1700, your own opinion is kinda irrelevant.

 

[Strawman]

And that automatically means to mean that at Microcenter, once Intel makes it available in mass, like in spring of 2017, it would be less than $299. And guess what it was, and it has basically hovered there, sometimes with the $30 mobo discount, that comes and goes.

At microcenter it has 8700k for 499$ and the 7700k for 379.99$ with 180 and 150$ pricecuts (and then the rebates on top of it). That's some serious pricecutting

 

[FreeBetaTester]

At microcenter it has 8700k for 499$ and the 7700k for 379.99$ with 180 and 150$ pricecuts (and then the rebates on top of it). That's some serious pricecutting

Somehow 279.99 looks like 379.99 to you for the 7700k.. Do not know how to explain that. And some how 8700K is $500? Last I checked $319.99 != $500. Huh?

http://www.microcenter.com/product/485321/Core_i7-7700K_Kaby_Lake_42_GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor
http://www.microcenter.com/product/486088/Core_i7-8700K_Coffee_Lake_37_GHz_LGA_1151_Boxed_Processor

I don't know what price cutting you are imagining. They do come with the $30 mobo discount right now. But I doubt that matches your definition of price cutting. Where is the serious price cutting. I'd be happy to get a 8700k for $199, but that is not going to happen.

 

[Strawman]

You don't see the greyed out 499.99$ right next to "SAVE 180$"? Maybe it's your Intel glasses, remove them and look again.

 

[FreeBetaTester]

You don't see the greyed out 499.99$ right next to "SAVE 180$"? Maybe it's your Intel glasses, remove them and look again.

Oh dear, my, my, you sure like to fall for the marketing traps. This is how advertising works in the U.S. Everything single seller makes up a fake higher price and then they tell you how much you are saving. This is common practice, but nobody considers the higher price the actual price, ever. If you believe that is saving actual money, money that on one has ever spent, then I got two wonderful stock for you to buy, you should've totally bought and held Worldcom and Enron.

But to humor you. See it says save "$220" on the 1800x see:

http://www.microcenter.com/product/485483/Ryzen_7_1800X_36_GHz_8_Core_AM4_Boxed_Processor

So that is $220 out of $500 or 44%.

You see the crossed out 500 at newegg:
https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819113430&cm_re=1800x-_-19-113-430-_-Product

Same sort of nonsense. Nobody puts any credibility to that kind of fake price. Its just like MSRP on cars. Anybody that pays MSRP at the car dealer is known as an easy mark by the car sales folks. And when AMD's MSRP is so drastically higher from the market reality, AMD is destroying their own credibility.

 

[Strawman]

But those marketing traps and advertising technics only apply to Intel, since AMD processors from microcenter have the regular launch price.. Keep going, you sure got an argument there buddy.

FYI, the 8700k launched at 370€ / $ but then due to low supply the price skyrocketed upwards of 450€, and that's why microcenter has that price as the regular price. Otherwise, it would have an obnoxiously high price for the Ryzen chips, when in fact they don't, they have the official launch prices.

Btw, the biggest pricedrop %wise / month on the market was 8700k's. It launched for 370$ according to Intel's website 5 months ago. According to microcenter, you can buy it right now for 280$ (with rebates). That's freaking HUGE, isn't it?

 

[cliffordcooley]

Who gives a sh-t? No one is going to be torn between buying AMD or Intel. You either want AMD, want Intel, or you couldn't care less which one it is.