There needs to be restraint in the amount of remuneration. And sadly in Lobbyist USA, that restraint is usually nowhere to be found.
Amazon laid off 30,000 workers while CEO Andy Jassy got a 30% pay bump
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Endymio
Posts: 5,275 +4,884
We'll just stick with that whole 'freedom' thing that's worked so well in the past. If you want the government to set prices on everything -- including labor -- for you, I suggest you move to a consumer paradise like Cuba, North Korea, or a former Soviet Republic.
Yeah, when you finally recognise the toxicity of Lobbyist USA. Then your eyes will be open.
A Lobbyist USA is the furthest from a free market, because those who can game the system are the ones who, surprise surprise, are most able to afford to game the system. At least there's a non-zero chance of countering corporate lobbyists with sane activism and alternative lobbies, but your odds are not good and getting worse with each year of wealth consolidation.
The USA is surely still big enough for prosperous, middle class bubbles to remain in a sea of stark disparity between the uber rich and the minimum wagers. But does it have to be like that, was it always like that?
If you can only counter the above with "but Communism!", then you're not really much of an keen observer and astute thinker.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 7,915 +8,207
Furthest? Really? Name a country that’s closer….
As I’ve said before, capitalism might not be a perfect system, but it’s better than the alternatives…
Neatfeatguy
Posts: 2,290 +4,608
Years ago I had a job when the housing market tanked, place I worked at was heavily involved in construction and when it was slow, we were slow. For a couple years there were no pay raises and not even any kind of holiday parties and employee cutbacks (about 20% of the company workers were let go).
The owner, however, found it possible to spend a few hundred thousand dollars for his safari trip and hunt out in Africa and then also special order a new Jaguar vehicle he wanted. He couldn't understand why people at his company were upset about how he was spending his money how he wants.
The rich live in another realm compared to the average worker, generally they just don't care or don't understand.
The owner, however, found it possible to spend a few hundred thousand dollars for his safari trip and hunt out in Africa and then also special order a new Jaguar vehicle he wanted. He couldn't understand why people at his company were upset about how he was spending his money how he wants.
The rich live in another realm compared to the average worker, generally they just don't care or don't understand.
It's sad to see people crow over Lobbyism as the crowning glory of capitalist economics, and think that it sits at the "righteous and perfect" end of a spectrum that is absolutely linear. With the other end being theoretical Communism.
And so, all countries must be like that, either Lobbyist capitalism like the USA, or theoretical Communism like... no country in history, because theoretical Communism, in the exact way Marx laid out, is a despot's fairytale. Nothing in between.
I believe a country with capitalistic economics, zero capability of corporates to lobby and get chummy with the politicians, politicians, and implements co-paying social insurance schemes for healthcare and education, while imposing all manner of taxes and regulations against the use of housing for non-ownership-residential profiteering purposes, is the way to go for a first-world country with decent citizenry. No country will get it completely right, but some cities may get pretty close.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 7,915 +8,207
Can you name a country like that? Hypotheticals are great… but let’s work with reality?
Endymio
Posts: 5,275 +4,884
Except no one here has done anything of the sort. Does the phrase "straw man argument" mean nothing to you?
You also fail to understand that there are many forms of lobbying. Grassroots lobbying is an integral, essential part of the democratic process. Restricting ourselves to the corporate milieu, lobbyists can be (and often are) supporting free-market legislation just as they can be seeking special privileges or treatment. Claiming lobbying is bad is like claiming voting is bad ... it all depends on what you vote upon.
Che Cazzo
Posts: 191 +322
Yawn.
your TDS condition is showing
Try something new. There is a herd that is not famous for being creative....
Squid Surprise
Posts: 7,915 +8,207
Here’s something new for you… try backing up your claims with evidence instead of simply slandering people who disagree with you?
The reality on the ground doesn't match your idealism.
Endymio
Posts: 5,275 +4,884
The reality on the ground is that there is far *less* cronyism and bestowing of special treatment and favors in capitalism than in any other system we've tried. One only has to look at any far-Left socialist regime to understand that.
That's a whataboutism, you know that right?
And are you saying US-style Lobbyist capitalism is the only one there is among the western democracies? And is superior to the rest of the capitalistic implementations?
Exceptionalism much?
Endymio
Posts: 5,275 +4,884
Not even remotely correct. Since you missed the point, I'll explain it more clearly. All systems have flaws. Capitalism however is by far the best such system of any we've yet tried.
Exceptionalism always. It far beats the alternative of glorying mediocrity, failure, and the abyss of moral relativism.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 7,915 +8,207
Strawman much?
Please, name a nation/system that does it better… we’re waiting…
US-style Lobbyist Capitalism?
You're glorifying the mediocre and set-up-for-failure corporate lobbyist style of US capitalism.
A nation/system that has plenty of natural resources just like the USA?
2 names come to mind - Norway and Switzerland.
Endymio
Posts: 5,275 +4,884
Glad you brought that up! These nations indeed learned from their earlier mistakes. From Scandinavia University Press:
"...The shift away from the highly regulated, state-oriented economy in Norway began in the late 1970s and accelerated during the 1980s, marking a transition from a social democratic model towards market-oriented policies ... This shift was prompted by economic crises [high inflation and low growth], global competition, and concerns about the long-term sustainability of the state-dominated model.
...Conservative Prime Minister Kåre Willoch's government in the 1980s is credited with initiating a "system shift," implementing deregulation, privatization, and market-oriented reforms....
- Privatization and Deregulation: The state began to reduce its direct ownership and control in several sectors, opening up the economy, which introduced market mechanisms into the public sector...."
Notice the absence of corporate lobbyism? Yeah.
Squid Surprise
Posts: 7,915 +8,207
They still have corporate lobbyists… the different is it’s actually LESS transparent than the US since there are fewer specific laws regulating it… try again
I know it sucks when reality disagrees with your narrow world view... but hey, thanks for coming out....
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Endymio
Posts: 5,275 +4,884
Sorry to disrupt you with reality:
"Yes, lobbying is a legal and active part of the political landscape in Norway, focusing on influencing policy through interactions between businesses, NGOs, and government officials. It is not strictly regulated compared to other countries—lacking a mandatory, public lobbying register....it is common, especially in sectors like oil and energy...."
What's the point of transparency when what you Americans are getting is "come and get me" transparency?They still have corporate lobbyists… the different is it’s actually LESS transparent than the US since there are fewer specific laws regulating it… try again
I know it sucks when reality disagrees with your narrow world view... but hey, thanks for coming out....
Transparency needs to be explicitly talked about when the "inner software" of the people is naturally lacking.
" It is not strictly regulated compared to other countries"
The US is definitely not on that list of other countries.
Oh and what happened to Switzerland? Tongue entrapped by cat?
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