Amazon's strict return-to-office policy is pushing more employees into quitting

[midian182]

A hot potato: Are you one of the many people so against returning to the office that you'd rather quit your job than go back? It's an issue several companies are facing. According to a recent report, one tech giant rapidly losing staff over its RTO policy is Amazon, though it doesn't seem willing to do anything about it.

Business Insider reports that some Amazon employees have noticed an increasing number of colleagues are leaving the company over its strict return-to-office mandate.

Ending a policy of allowing employees to work from home full-time is always a contentious move by companies, but none have faced as much pushback as Amazon. The original announcement resulted in an employee petition in February, which was resoundingly rejected, and it was one of the reasons behind a walkout later in the year.

Adding fuel to the fire is another Amazon policy introduced in July that requires some corporate workers to relocate to other cities near their teams' "hub" offices – central locations assigned to each individual team.

Amazon CEO Andy Jassy was clear about what will happen to any worker who refuses to come back into the office for at least three days per week: "It's probably not going to work out for you at Amazon," he said in August.

In an internal Slack channel called Remote Advocacy dedicated to discussions about the RTH (return-to-hub) mandate, one of the 34,000 group members wrote "This is my last week at Amazon and my only reason for leaving is the RTH policy."

It's speculated that the uptick in resignations is linked to the deadlines for employees starting work in offices getting closer. BI writes that cloud unit Amazon Web Services has seen several notable departures in recent weeks. "The sheer number of AWS resignations in the last week is stunning," wrote Merritt Baer on X, a former AWS employee who left in July after more than 5 years at the division.

The sheer number of AWS resignations in the last week is stunning.

– Merritt Baer (@MerrittBaer) December 4, 2023

Other messages on the Slack board from departing employees cite RTO and the poor communication surrounding it, as well as being forced into relocations that aren't possible. The messages also complain about a lack of respect for employees, poor planning, and the many layoffs Amazon has implemented in recent times.

Return-to-office mandates were being debated again earlier this week after Broadcom told newly acquired VMware that its employees (those who weren't fired) needed to get their "butt" back.

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https://www.techspot.com/news/101086-amazon-strict-return-office-policy-pushing-more-employees.html

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Yes, you have to come into work like the rest of us. You have to drive in, like the rest of us. I dont see how impossible relocations are a thing, unless someone moved into a small town in a different state, sold their big city dwelling, and now cant afford to move back in; to which I say "welcome to what we deal with".

And it's STILL only 3 days a week for a job that pays $100k+ a year. That's a pretty sweet gig.

 

[Uncle Al]

Amazing that so many of these companies either can't read, understand, or choose to ignor the facts. For well over 30 years it has been widly known and accepted that work at home practices not only save the company lots of money on infastructure, but actually get more "free" work from those employee's. Apparently there are still too many supervisors that think being surrounded by warm bodies makes them better. With all the computer technology and high speed internet service, an office is just unnecessary .....

 

[Peter Farkas]

So why does amazon ask its employees to get back into the Hubs? what is their reason for enforcing RTO? Are there financial gains for them by doing this? Or would Amazon just want to clean the house a little bit and enforcing an RTO seemed convenient to trigger many to leave by their "own will"?

 

[Theinsanegamer]

So why does amazon ask its employees to get back into the Hubs? what is their reason for enforcing RTO? Are there financial gains for them by doing this? Or would Amazon just want to clean the house a little bit and enforcing an RTO seemed convenient to trigger many to leave by their "own will"?

contrary to popular belief, management prefers to have control over their employees. Working from home is the antithesis for that. Working from home was not a right, but a benefit, and that benefit is being revoked.

It's a corporation, they do this all the time. People being surprised by it mystifies me. Most of us saw this coming in march of 2020. It was never going to be permanent. Give management some time to roll over and they'll demand RTO. That's exactly whats happening.

 

[Peter Farkas]

contrary to popular belief, management prefers to have control over their employees. Working from home is the antithesis for that. Working from home was not a right, but a benefit, and that benefit is being revoked.

It's a corporation, they do this all the time. People being surprised by it mystifies me. Most of us saw this coming in march of 2020. It was never going to be permanent. Give management some time to roll over and they'll demand RTO. That's exactly whats happening.

I'd be shocked if it comes down just to being control freaks over employees. Perhaps it's true for American companies, but where employees are treated as adults it is rather different.
The last couple of years prooved that emoplyees still deliver their job even from home (sometimes even better due to lack of distractions in the office). Businesses kept rockin great results while WFH was the way. That is why I am asking if anybody knows what Amazon tried to justify RTO with?

 

[Neatfeatguy]

Amazon knows that it's employees are replaceable. If some want to leave because they don't want to return to the office, the company will find others to replace them with. Remember, if you're not the owner of a company - you are replaceable. You are just a tool that can be replaced by another tool.

 

[Peter Farkas]

Amazon knows that it's employees are replaceable. If some want to leave because they don't want to return to the office, the company will find others to replace them with. Remember, if you're not the owner of a company - you are replaceable. You are just a tool that can be replaced by another tool.

That is all fine and true. But WHY is Amazon enforcing this? What is in it for them?

 

[Neatfeatguy]

That is all fine and true. But WHY is Amazon enforcing this? What is in it for them?

Not sure that it matters, at least not to me. I don't care one way or the other.

There could be any number of reasons.
1) Control
2) .....
3) Profit!

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Yes, you have to come into work like the rest of us. You have to drive in, like the rest of us. I dont see how impossible relocations are a thing, unless someone moved into a small town in a different state, sold their big city dwelling, and now cant afford to move back in; to which I say "welcome to what we deal with".

And it's STILL only 3 days a week for a job that pays $100k+ a year. That's a pretty sweet gig.

-Ah the crab bucket. Some workers manage to make their situation better and it's not even management and the bosses but other jealous workers that seem to hate on them the most and want them to fail.

WFH is good for everyone. Those that WFH have a QOL improvement for obvious reasons and those that don't get less traffic and less crowding.

I don't understand dragging another worker down because your boss or job isn't amenable to WFH.

And to point I've been 3 in 2 home since the Pandemic started, and I loved the empty roads and office.

 

[Peter Farkas]

Not sure that it matters, at least not to me. I don't care one way or the other.

There could be any number of reasons.
1) Control
2) .....
3) Profit!

I get you, but do we know what Amazon says about it? What is their argument? Seems like everyone is having an opinion here, but none of us knows what Amazon's reasoning is for RTO.
If anyone knows, please tell us!

 

[lonetac]

Sounds like some folks in this thread are just jealous.

The folks who dont return to office have nothing to worry about. Top talent dictates their terms of work. The folks who do RTO that work in tech are either folks who WFH just simply doesnt work for (its not for everyone) or they are the bottom feeders who just cant get a job at a company who does WFH because top talent beat them to the position.

Our company has remained profitable and continues to be so after moving to a full hybrid. And by hybrid I mean going to the office is completely optional. It remains an option but its not mandatory.

If you have managers who know how to manage and your job is performance based, there is no need to mandate office work.

All the knee jerk reactions to RTO are actually collapsing. There was several articles in the news this week about how those companies regret it and made those decisions without proper data to back their claims.

Fact is, majority of WFH employees put way more time in than office dwellers gossiping around the water cooler and taking coffee breaks every 15 min. I know I have no seperation from work and life as you dont pack up your things and go home, you just keep working into the evening, weekends, etc. Im ok with that though, its a trade off I am perfectly fine with instead of spending 2-8 hours commuting to a city that has massive prices for everything to prop up ultra wealthy real estate moguls which is the real reason folks are calling for RTO.

The workers won this one. Top talent has nothing to worry about and some folks who compare WFH to being lazy and disconnected are just either jealous or dealing with massive amounts of copium. I know, dumb word but its literally the truth.

WFH is also not for every job. I know in my position its global and going to an office to sit in a cubicle filled with people who have nothing to do with what I do is just non-sensible and thankfully lots of companies are not run by complete morons who dont understand that. Instead some embraced it and continue to show massive profits.

 

[Username12623]

I get you, but do we know what Amazon says about it? What is their argument? Seems like everyone is having an opinion here, but none of us knows what Amazon's reasoning is for RTO.
If anyone knows, please tell us!

I get what youre saying. What's your theory anyways?

 

[ferris209]

Good, prob the best way to trim the fat as the lazy ones get rid of themselves!

 

[p51d007]

Here's how I have always looked at this.
1. You are the employee
2. The EMPLOYER sets the rules
3. Go by the rules, or QUIT!

 

[dangh]

Here's how I have always looked at this.
1. You are the employee
2. The EMPLOYER sets the rules
3. Go by the rules, or QUIT!

And exactly that is the reason why so many people quits Amazon - they got a better position in a company who can utilise their skills without being unreasonable and without employer changing their minds whenever they want.
If my company would require to drop wfh I have many other options to choose from.
Let me write it better:

I'm an employee
The employer have to facilitate my needs to benefit from my skills.
If employer do not cover my needs, I quit and use my knowledge for potential competition.

 

[Underdog]

That is all fine and true. But WHY is Amazon enforcing this? What is in it for them?

Just a theory, but they will most likely offer lower pay for the replacements they hire.
This sort of crap has been going on in UK for years. Corporate reshuffles that lighten the load by letting people go until they are barely running and then hire from a huge unemployment pool for peanuts. The shareholders love it.

 

[hover389]

The average worker is more productive and beneficial to the company when they work at the office. This isnt hard to understand

 

[Peter Farkas]

Just a theory, but they will most likely offer lower pay for the replacements they hire.
This sort of crap has been going on in UK for years. Corporate reshuffles that lighten the load by letting people go until they are barely running and then hire from a huge unemployment pool for peanuts. The shareholders love it.

Yep, I have seen this too.

I get what youre saying. What's your theory anyways?

The way I look at it is that unless we get a pretty solid justification why people need to back in the office it is just theatricality. Meaning they have a hidden reason they aren't keen on sharing, perhaps they want to cut on headcount cost and enforce employees into quitting with shitty policies like this.
That is why I am trying to learn what Amazon's narrative was. It might make sense but it might be just a load of BS. I have been working in big multinational companies since WFH and we never noticed any decline in productivity, but quite on the contrary.

 

[Username12623]

Yep, I have seen this too.

The way I look at it is that unless we get a pretty solid justification why people need to back in the office it is just theatricality. Meaning they have a hidden reason they aren't keen on sharing, perhaps they want to cut on headcount cost and enforce employees into quitting with shitty policies like this.
That is why I am trying to learn what Amazon's narrative was. It might make sense but it might be just a load of BS. I have been working in big multinational companies since WFH and we never noticed any decline in productivity, but quite on the contrary.

I see. Question, why are you focusing on Amazon? I wonder if its happening outside of USA based companies.
Which Companies Have Ditched Fully Remote Working in 2023?

• Starbucks.
• General Motors.
• Disney.
• Walmart.
• Dell.
• Amazon.
• Activision Blizzard.
• United Parcel Service.

 

[mailpup]

I see. Question, why are you focusing on Amazon?

Because Amazon is the subject of the article.

 

[ChipBoundary]

Amazing that so many of these companies either can't read, understand, or choose to ignor the facts. For well over 30 years it has been widly known and accepted that work at home practices not only save the company lots of money on infastructure, but actually get more "free" work from those employee's. Apparently there are still too many supervisors that think being surrounded by warm bodies makes them better. With all the computer technology and high speed internet service, an office is just unnecessary .....

Those are not facts. We have proof that work from home doesn't work for 99% of the population. Productivity is down in all sectors. All work from home people do is slack off, walk the dog, do laundry, mess with their kids, etc. I've literally watched hundreds of my own coworkers do that very thing.

During the pandemic there were dozens upon dozens of articles talking about mouse jigglers or other ways to try to circumvent company monitoring. People, when left to their own devices, have zero integrity and will avoid doing work whenever possible. The hard-working, overworked, dependable individual is EXTREMELY rare. There's literally only a few thousand of them in the entire world, if that.

 

[Superconductor]

The lazy will fail

 

[Raendor]

Yes, you have to come into work like the rest of us. You have to drive in, like the rest of us. I dont see how impossible relocations are a thing, unless someone moved into a small town in a different state, sold their big city dwelling, and now cant afford to move back in; to which I say "welcome to what we deal with".

And it's STILL only 3 days a week for a job that pays $100k+ a year. That's a pretty sweet gig.

Look at this pathetic tool. It makes sense if your work can't be done outside of location. Plenty of work these days in tech and industry revolves around sitting in front of a computer whole day. For that it doesn't matter where you sit as long as the goals are getting achieved. Slave mentality will always keep you a slave.

 

[Peter Farkas]

I see. Question, why are you focusing on Amazon? I wonder if its happening outside of USA based companies.
Which Companies Have Ditched Fully Remote Working in 2023?

• Starbucks.
• General Motors.
• Disney.
• Walmart.
• Dell.
• Amazon.
• Activision Blizzard.
• United Parcel Service.

I see. Question, why are you focusing on Amazon? I wonder if its happening outside of USA based companies.
Which Companies Have Ditched Fully Remote Working in 2023?

• Starbucks.
• General Motors.
• Disney.
• Walmart.
• Dell.
• Amazon.
• Activision Blizzard.
• United Parcel Service.

just because of the this article, but it is applicable to others, regardless of location. Did you just create an account to hop in on this thread?