AMD at CES 2022: Roadmap to Zen 4 and AM5, Ryzen gets V-Cache, Ryzen 6000 mobile, more

flee2020

Posts: 42   +39
It would be interesting to see how the Ryzen 6000 improves on the Ryzen 5000 series. I think the focus is on efficiency. As such, laptop battery life will be interesting. I believe that any performance gains will be gotten from a clock speed bump, or if the application leverages on the RDNA2 cores' improved performance.
 

Gezzer

Posts: 302   +152
IMHO the 5800X3D could be a major game changer, or a "meh" of a flop. The big question for me is how much of a trade off is the drop in clock speed compared to the extra cache'? I'm going to reserve judgement until I can see 3rd party tests with games that weren't possibly cherry picked to support AMD's narrative. I wouldn't be all that surprised if there are some clock speed sensitive games that will actually lose some performance as well.
 

LuckyMenace

Posts: 58   +47
Yes, Zen3 is hotter than Zen2, but you can keep them in check with a $50-$60 cooler. I have a Scythe Fuma 2 and it can cool up to 200w and still stay quiet and cool. I also have a 3rd fan installed on it, so I have no worries at all.

I was looking into Fuma 2 to cool my 5800X but a lot of owners are saying it’s thermal throttling and/or hitting 90C. Granted, the 5800X is the hottest CPU of Zen 3, but thermal throttling is a hard pass.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 600   +1,112
I was looking into Fuma 2 to cool my 5800X but a lot of owners are saying it’s thermal throttling and/or hitting 90C. Granted, the 5800X is the hottest CPU of Zen 3, but thermal throttling is a hard pass.
It depends on a few things like:
- how good the airflow in the case is?
- if it's stock or with PBO, and if with PBO is it auto or manual tuned PBO?
- room temp

I'm using my Fuma 2 with the 5600X stock and without the extra fan installed and without the front case fans ON and with the Fuma2 set at max 90% speed, I get to 67 degrees in CB 20 MT (at that temp is at about 85% speed). It's also very quiet.

Even with 5800X (which means also 5800X3D) being the hottest, if I turn ON the case fans and crank everything at 100% and use the 3rd CPU fan, there is no way it will get to 90 degrees in my case.

It also depends on the silicon of the chip, my 5600X is a silver sample, so it's almost useless to use PBO, but with a golden sample it's a complete different story.

The TLDR version is: depending on what the reviews show, if a Noctua NH-D15 can cool the 5800X3D well, then so will the Scythe Fuma2, with maybe 2-3 degrees hotter, at worst.

There is a reason why GN gave the Scythe Fuma 2 "best overall cooler" in 2021 award, it does the job of $100+ coolers, at just $60:
 
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Lounds

Posts: 1,212   +1,122
Well my concern is the temperature since 5800x is already a hot one. For me, upgrading from 3600x to 5600x is not tempting, that's why I was waiting for a 5600x3d or 5900x3d. We'll need to wait real life benchmark but somehow im totally off from the hype. Most probably I'll go for the 5900x or simply change my monitor to 1440p.
Run Ryzen CTR 2.0, tune your CPU to use less volts. My 3600 only uses a maximum of 1.25v for it's full 4.2Ghz boost, while at stock the default settings use nearly 1.4v and add 20c at full load. I assume the reason AMD did this was for stability for lower quality bins.
 

DonquixoteIII

Posts: 121   +73
Or you know... they weren't ready to announce it here at CES.
Kinda like last year... Funny, but when AMD launched a new socket (TRX40) I am sure that they said it would not be a one generation socket. At this point, I am going to give AMD a bit of leeway, and suggest that the blame lies with them not being able to get the 7NM node to perform for multi-cores like Threadripper. Note that the sWRX80 (pro) CPUs do not have near the frequency of a TRX40 T hreadripper, past OR present. Look at the burst freq of an EPYC...

Not owning a foundry to 'play with' has AMD lagging a bit in the engineering dept., methinks. Oh well, my rusty old 3960x will just have to do until Gelsinger can get me a proper CPU, with enough PCIe lanes to satisfy my needs (32 min, pref 48 ...)at a reasonable price point. Why all those lanes? Glad you asked. PCIe RAID, possibly two quaddros, or possibly two RAID cards. 64 lanes would cover all the bases, short of building a (100k+) render farm.
 

Crinkles

Posts: 247   +220
That's a weird IHS, must be difficult to machine
They're just stamped metal. Looking at a 2008 model, I-7 950's IHS. The IHS lid is arched, and the edges at the upper sides are sharp all the way around from being mashed by a machine. The edge is very square and it's sharper than you'd think, the dome's curvature is very precise. When it's mounted to a motherboard the heatsink will put tension on it, enough, that when it's tight it will flatten. I don't think designing this IHS was a single person's effort, there are too many things going on, in a piece of cut and pressed metal.
 

Vanderlinde

Posts: 179   +113
Here is the reason why there is only 1 model currently.

"Why only Ryzen 7, not Ryzen 5/Ryzen 9? Because this is a new project for AMD, they want to find out how a processor like this will be welcomed into the market. A lot of users (myself included) expected AMD to go all-in with a big 16-core version, however anything Ryzen 9 requires two chiplets, and adding the extra V-Cache does require an extra cost in silicon and packaging. During a semiconductor shortage, I was told that this is the best way to get it into the hands of many people while also not in the super high-cost bracket. It also means one single unified 96 MB of L3 cache, without having to deal with two chiplets worth which might not be optimized immediately. Future versions of V-Cache on next-generation products may be expanded to other Ryzen members of the family."

https://www.anandtech.com/show/17152/amd-cpus-in-2022-ces

Its simply a engineering project really. It's already applied in the EPYC line and considering a Ryzen is just as a Epyc it's no secret.

The 3D cache is however a very clever thing; it adds higher performance in apps or games that are relient of more cache. Clocks can go lower while staying in the same TDP enveloppe and offering 10% to 40% more performance depending on workload.

I'd take it. Proberly overclocks as well as the 5800X too.

 

hahahanoobs

Posts: 4,675   +2,654
5800X3D...
-Reduced core clock
-Expensive according to Frank Azor in interview
-AMD will add more Zen 3 3D chips if requested by customers after saying games use 4-8 cores. What happened to the 15% perf gains claimed by AMD? Now they need to wait for feedback? I knew this 3D cache on Zen 3 was a joke. I highly doubt we'll see a 5600X 3D. Sounds a lot like RIS where AMD said they would add DX11 support if - requested by customers.

What?!
This is why I bag on AMD. They are all over the place and you can tell they are just throwing spaghetti at walls far too often. If they want the number one spot (they do), they need to do a LOT better.
 

Strawman

Posts: 597   +299
. It will also be a very cheap upgrade, just upgrading my CPU (like I did before), not the entire platfor
Really now? Last time I checked AMD is including the price of a motherboard into their CPU's. 300€ for 5600x and 450€ for a 5800x, lmao. With that money you could buy a 10700k + a z490, so yeah, just because you don't have to buy a motherboard doesn't mean you won't pay for one
 

godrilla

Posts: 582   +315
Another 1st for AMD the 1st to support Display port 2.0 although it was for Rembrandt APUs we can probably extrapolate this for next gen gpus as well.
 

Kosmoz

Posts: 600   +1,112
My previous post was deleted, so I'll Re:
Really? Why would you find that funny?
If you need explanation for that, you are slow.
Really now? Last time I checked AMD is including the price of a motherboard into their CPU's. 300€ for 5600x and 450€ for a 5800x, lmao. With that money you could buy a 10700k + a z490, so yeah, just because you don't have to buy a motherboard doesn't mean you won't pay for one
I bought the 5600X at a BF deal for $240 (not $300) and sold my 3600 for $175. I don't need a new motherboard, I have a great B450 which has seen me thru Ryzen 2600 to 3600 to 5600X and I'll have the option to upgrade to Zen3D too, something intel users will never have.

That means I ended up paying $75 for the 5600X upgrade. That = cheap. Get it?
It will be the same (a cheap upgrade) when/if I decide to upgrade 5800X3D, much cheaper than buying a whole new intel system.

Also you're flawed reasoning is based on a comparison of Zen3 prices with the 10th gen intel platform which is 2 years old now, I'm pretty sure you can also buy a 2 year old Zen2 platform cheaper than the Zen3 one.... imagine that discovery. 😏
 

Strawman

Posts: 597   +299
My previous post was deleted, so I'll Re:

If you need explanation for that, you are slow.

I bought the 5600X at a BF deal for $240 (not $300) and sold my 3600 for $175. I don't need a new motherboard, I have a great B450 which has seen me thru Ryzen 2600 to 3600 to 5600X and I'll have the option to upgrade to Zen3D too, something intel users will never have.

That means I ended up paying $75 for the 5600X upgrade. That = cheap. Get it?
It will be the same (a cheap upgrade) when/if I decide to upgrade 5800X3D, much cheaper than buying a whole new intel system.

Also you're flawed reasoning is based on a comparison of Zen3 prices with the 10th gen intel platform which is 2 years old now, I'm pretty sure you can also buy a 2 year old Zen2 platform cheaper than the Zen3 one.... imagine that discovery. 😏
So there is no explanation. Thought so.

What you paid and how much you sold something is completely irrelevant. I sold my 10900k for 600 euros cause it was a golden sample. Does it matter? Does that make intels upgrades cheaper? No, it's completely irrelevant.

The 5600x has an msrp of 300. With that money you can buy a 10400f + mobo + ram. Nough said I think.

The zen 2 3600 or 3600x isnt cheap either it regularly is above 200 euro all around europe, so... Wtf are you talking about? I mean you said it yourself, you sold it USED for 175....thats more expensive than a brand new 10400 or 11400, f or non f variant. Lol
 
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Kosmoz

Posts: 600   +1,112
So there is no explanation. Thought so.

The 5600x has an msrp of 300. With that money you can buy a 10400f + mobo + ram. Nough said I think.
10400f compared to 5600X? Really? Are you that desperate for an intel win to make a comparison that has no logic? Intel is cheaper, but Zen3 mops the floor with it so it's more expensive... pathetic comparison, as the other ones above.

For the fact that you still push for an explanation (just to trigger me) why a 5800X3D while being cheaper and coming just a few months after AL (not one year later as AL did vs Zen3), will beat it and you can't see that or the irony, then you now get a very earned IGNORE from me. I don't have time to waste with the your kind. Bye.
 

Strawman

Posts: 597   +299
10400f compared to 5600X? Really? Are you that desperate for an intel win to make a comparison that has no logic? Intel is cheaper, but Zen3 mops the floor with it so it's more expensive... pathetic comparison, as the other ones above.

For the fact that you still push for an explanation (just to trigger me) why a 5800X3D while being cheaper and coming just a few months after AL (not one year later as AL did vs Zen3), will beat it and you can't see that or the irony, then you now get a very earned IGNORE from me. I don't have time to waste with the your kind. Bye.
It beats it by 15% in 1080p with a 3090, and costs more than the CPU the mobo and the ram combined. Good freaking deal man

You find it funny that a new CPU that was made specifically to be good at games is better in games than a CPU that was made to be good all around? Ohkay. Obviously even if it beats the 12900k, we don't know the price, and it loses across the board on anything else. A better comparison would be the 12700k which will be probably cheaper than the 5800x3d and deliver almost the same gaming performance.

So yeah, a new and expensive zen 3 CPU will barely beat a cheaper 12700k in games and get destroyed in productivity. Funny indeed