AMD confirms that X570 and B550 chipsets will support next-gen Zen 3 architecture

[gdavid65]

Let's see. 7 different lines of processors:

I think you missed their point.. why not allow users to remove support for older processors from bios, in exchange for supporting the newest ones. For instance, remove support for:

Summit Ridge
Raven Ridge
Pinnacle Ridge

In exchange for Zen 3? However of course, motherboard vendors don't get wealthy supporting older products.

 

[Shadowboxer]

I think you missed their point.. why not allow users to remove support for older processors from bios, in exchange for supporting the newest ones. For instance, remove support for:

Summit Ridge
Raven Ridge
Pinnacle Ridge

In exchange for Zen 3? However of course, motherboard vendors don't get wealthy supporting older products.

Because bios updates are not just for allowing compatibility. They improve performance, thermals, plug vulnerabilities etc. Users on older platforms don’t want to find that they are unable to get a bios update because their <3 year old CPU is no longer supported. Sometimes these bios updates contain critical security updates, you can’t leave existing customers out because there is a small demographic who want to put a new CPU in there mobo (whilst giving no money to the mobo manufacturer for the privilege).

This whole situation is getting messier. If I had bought a 470 board and was waiting for Ryzen 4xxx. I’d be pretty upset to find out that actually I may not be able to. Especially when AMD have been marketing the socket compatibility. A lot of users opted for the 470 as it was a lot cheaper than the 570, didn’t have a fan or they didn’t need pcie4, which most users don’t need really. Now some of these users are getting bitten.

We as enthusiasts like being able to put newer CPUs in older motherboards and can be trusted to ensure we are putting the right parts together. But as the picture on what works with what becomes more complicated it just becomes less consumer friendly to non enthusiasts. We have been here before with Intel, in the end they just started changing the socket up all the time to keep it simple.

Personally, I think people should buy a new mobo with every new CPU. I always have and probably always will.

 

[OortCloud]

Why is this article not titled - 'AMD bin support for anybody who didn't buy their most expensive motherboards'?

 

[Shadowboxer]

Why is this article not titled - 'AMD bin support for anybody who didn't buy their most expensive motherboards'?

Because Techspot is biased towards AMD. The title is damage control.

It wasn’t even that long ago that Techspot released a rather disingenuous article stating that Intel did not plan to support future CPUs in its new socket. Which is something they never have done so it wasn’t really news.

 

[OortCloud]

For anybody thinking their 4 series motherboards might work - I think this table on AMDs site is very clear - note the partial support shown last time for the older boards and the flat out no this time.

 

[Lionvibez]

Why is this article not titled - 'AMD bin support for anybody who didn't buy their most expensive motherboards'?

An Asus Prime X570P cost $166 USD you don't need a $500 board.

And their title doesn't have personal bias attached to it.

Secondly the fact that support as has been this long on AM4 is good considering what the competition offers in this regard.

 

[Lionvibez]

Because Techspot is biased towards AMD. The title is damage control.

Any proof to back this other than personal opinion?

I think I've been on this site 4 years now and I've yet to see anything like that for the most part Techspot seem to be fairly even in their coverage and what they report.

And the next question is if that were true what benefit does a 3rd party having in defending AMD's honor?

 

[neeyik]

Why is this article not titled - 'AMD bin support for anybody who didn't buy their most expensive motherboards'?

Because that would be misleading, whereas the actual title is simply stating the facts, as they have been declared by AMD. Besides, at Newegg, X570 motherboards range from $140 to $700, and there are B450 that go up to $498 and B350 models up to $598. So while the most expensive motherboards are X570 models, Zen 3 isn't limited to 'the most expensive motherboards.'

 

[Shadowboxer]

Because that would be misleading, whereas the actual title is simply stating the facts, as they have been declared by AMD. Besides, at Newegg, X570 motherboards range from $140 to $700, and there are B450 that go up to $498 and B350 models up to $598. So while the most expensive motherboards are X570 models, Zen 3 isn't limited to 'the most expensive motherboards.'

It wouldn’t have been misleading. If you don’t have AMDs premium board you don’t get future support.

Although seeing as your splitting hairs maybe it should have read “AMD bins support for anyone who didn’t buy their premium 570 boards”.

But the 570 boards are the most expensive on average. So your just getting desperate mate.

Oh it’s going to be fun watching the AMD defence league defend this one. Personally I don’t care, I’m not poor and am quite happy to buy a new motherboard when I buy a new CPU and always have done. But AMD have turned their back on a lot of users with this move and it’s definitely worthy of criticism. Which they could have avoided if they never promised socket compatibility to users in the past.

 

[Lionvibez]

So your just getting desperate mate.

It seems like you are in desperation mode now not neeyik

 

[neeyik]

Although seeing as your splitting hairs maybe it should have read “AMD bins support for anyone who didn’t buy their premium 570 boards”.

I'm not splitting hairs. Your suggested title would simply be incorrect, whereas ours is perfectly fine.

But AMD have turned their back on a lot of users with this move and it’s definitely worthy of criticism.

Yes, it is worthy of criticism - after all, if you'd had recently put down $500 for a B450 motherboard with the hope that it would provide some future upgrades, you'd be right disappointed. On the other hand, if you'd gone with a $140 X570, you'd be pleased with your decision. Mixed backwards compatibility seems like it's asking for trouble: to me, it would have been better if AMD required a full new chipset for Zen 3.

Which they could have avoided if they never promised socket compatibility to users in the past.

Same socket, different chipset - personally I think AMD and Intel need to clean up their act with this kind of nonsense. It's a lot better than it has been in the past, but both could do with setting out their roadmaps of backwards compatibility (or not, whatever the case may be) with far greater clarity.

Like yourself, I tend to get a whole new setup when I upgrade my CPU but it's always frustrating having to tell people that request advice on updating their 5 year old PC that they just can't slap in a new $250 CPU.

 

[Shadowboxer]

I'm not splitting hairs. Your suggested title would simply be incorrect, whereas ours is perfectly fine.


Yes, it is worthy of criticism - after all, if you'd had recently put down $500 for a B450 motherboard with the hope that it would provide some future upgrades, you'd be right disappointed. On the other hand, if you'd gone with a $140 X570, you'd be pleased with your decision. Mixed backwards compatibility seems like it's asking for trouble: to me, it would have been better if AMD required a full new chipset for Zen 3.


Same socket, different chipset - personally I think AMD and Intel need to clean up their act with this kind of nonsense. It's a lot better than it has been in the past, but both could do with setting out their roadmaps of backwards compatibility (or not, whatever the case may be) with far greater clarity.

Like yourself, I tend to get a whole new setup when I upgrade my CPU but it's always frustrating having to tell people that request advice on updating their 5 year old PC that they just can't slap in a new $250 CPU.

]

Pretty certain AMD announced that socket compatibility would go on till 2020 when Ryzen launched. Which if this information is true is a lie. It went on until 2019 for users of boards purchased back then.

Because of this I don’t think anyone who purchased a motherboard in 2017 was unreasonable to expect to upgrade to a chip released in 2020. Ryzen 1xxx released only 3 years ago, there isn’t anyone trying to upgrade a 5 year old motherboard yet. That fun is still all to come for AMD and it’s consumers. Especially if they don’t change the socket because you know as well as I, if something slots into something, some ***** will do it and whine when it doesn’t work.

Locking you into a socket is an inconvenience for enthusiasts but good for general consumers who don’t know what to check when upgrading or even to send off for a bios upgrade kit.

 

[Shadowboxer]

AMD promised socket AM4 support with the launch of the B450 board back in June 2018.

Amplitude Just Got the First Gameplay Trailer From Harmonix

By now you would have heard of the "reboot" version of Amplitude which is being developed by Harmonix. Gamers who were fans of music based videogames back

www.google.co.uk

 

[neeyik]

Depending on pedantic one wishes to be, AMD have kept to that statement. “Till the year 2020” is somewhat ambiguous, as it could mean ‘up until 2020 but not including’ or ‘up until 2020 and part of it’ or ‘until and including all of 2020’. But that’s probably what their marketing division intended.

 

[Shadowboxer]

Depending on pedantic one wishes to be, AMD have kept to that statement. “Till the year 2020” is somewhat ambiguous, as it could mean ‘up until 2020 but not including’ or ‘up until 2020 and part of it’ or ‘until and including all of 2020’. But that’s probably what their marketing division intended.

In which case their marketing department deliberately mislead their consumers. All the articles on this statement I can find say that the statement is noteable because Intel usually release only one or two CPUs per socket. This statement was made with the launch of the the B450 board in June 2018, less than 2 years ago. In which case you had only two generations of CPU of life in it. Just like Intel.

An appropriate headline would be “AMD cancels socket previous AM4 support for 2020 chips with exception to 570 boards”. You know not all that unlike the techspot article published about Intel’s future socket support after Intel didn’t ever promise support in the first place nor done so previously for a long time. You even claimed people who bought series 400 Intel boards should be upset. Presumably you then think that those who bought series 400 AMD boards should be raging?

Intel's 12th-gen Alder Lake CPUs rumored to use LGA 1700 socket, replacing LGA 1200 after just two generations

Soon after the new Core i9-10900K CPU was officially revealed last week, we heard that the 400-series motherboards it requires would also support 11th-gen Rocket Lake processors,...

www.google.co.uk

At least Intel are upfront with its socket support. Apparently AMD promise it then take it away last minute.

 

[Lew Zealand]

What promise? I see no promise from AMD that they took away.

It's 2020. Right now.
AMD B450 boards support all currently available Ryzen 1000, 2000, and 3000 chips. That's 3 generations of processors, not 2, but OK just 2 future generations.
This matches AMD's claims of support from the link you mentioned as well as lots of other places.

Assuming you're actually arguing the earlier point, which is that people who bought B450 and X470 boards are not guaranteed any Ryzen 4000 compatibility though they probably expected it, that's legit. While I saw no guarantees anywhere, recent history suggested pretty strongly that this support would occur.

It also seems that it's technical issue with the size of the BIOS if you look at AMD's docs, so I wonder if the MSI Max models (and others?) will actually get Ryzen 4000 support as they shouldn't be limited that way.

 

[Shadowboxer]

What promise? I see no promise from AMD that they took away.

It's 2020. Right now.
AMD B450 boards support all currently available Ryzen 1000, 2000, and 3000 chips. That's 3 generations of processors, not 2, but OK just 2 future generations.
This matches AMD's claims of support from the link you mentioned as well as lots of other places.

Assuming you're actually arguing the earlier point, which is that people who bought B450 and X470 boards are not guaranteed any Ryzen 4000 compatibility though they probably expected it, that's legit. While I saw no guarantees anywhere, I get that recent history suggested pretty strongly that this support would occur.

It also seems that it's technical issue with the size of the BIOS if you look at AMD's docs, so I wonder if the MSI Max models (and others?) will actually get Ryzen 4000 support as they shouldn't be limited that way.

Look mate, I’m just calling AMD out for deceiving their customers. You might be ok with it, that’s fine. I’m ok with it too, I have always said I think it’s best to buy a new motherboard with every CPU So sure il be fine. Couldn’t say the same about those who bought a B450 board and expected to upgrade to a 2020 chip on socket AM4 though! However I’m sure they would turn round and be absolutely fine with it once you point out that the chips released in 2019 are still on sale in 2020 and that technically means AMD haven’t let them down!

Am I not allowed to call out this kind of deceptive behaviour?

 

[TheWatcher]

And here I am rocking a Q6600 on a ASUS p5k vm

 

[HardReset]

Look mate, I’m just calling AMD out for deceiving their customers. You might be ok with it, that’s fine. I’m ok with it too, I have always said I think it’s best to buy a new motherboard with every CPU So sure il be fine. Couldn’t say the same about those who bought a B450 board and expected to upgrade to a 2020 chip on socket AM4 though! However I’m sure they would turn round and be absolutely fine with it once you point out that the chips released in 2019 are still on sale in 2020 and that technically means AMD haven’t let them down!

Am I not allowed to call out this kind of deceptive behaviour?

AMD has NEVER promised ANY compatibility regarding future AM4 processors and motherboards in general. That is because AMD makes CPU's and no matter what AMD does, motherboard makers could simply refuse to support new CPU's on old boards and there is nothing AMD could do about it.

AMD has promised AM4 socket will be in use up to 2020. Since (or if) Zen3 is using AM4 socket very likely, AMD has done exactly what they promised. So you are not allowed to call it deceptive since you are imaging AMD did something it did not do.

When it comes to B450 motherboards. Did people really expect chipset from March 2017 to support CPU that is to come out somewhere around September 2020? B350 and B450 are exactly same chipsets so B450 is 2017 stuff. There is very good reason why other than 500 series support is dropped from Zen3 (if that really happens): PCI Express 4.0. On Zen2 AMD allowed "hybrid" solution where some Zen2 platforms support PCIE 4.0 and some did not. With Zen3 AMD wants that all Zen3 platforms have PCIe 4.0 support at least for 16 lanes.

 

[Shadowboxer]

AMD has NEVER promised ANY compatibility regarding future AM4 processors and motherboards in general. That is because AMD makes CPU's and no matter what AMD does, motherboard makers could simply refuse to support new CPU's on old boards and there is nothing AMD could do about it.

AMD has promised AM4 socket will be in use up to 2020. Since (or if) Zen3 is using AM4 socket very likely, AMD has done exactly what they promised. So you are not allowed to call it deceptive since you are imaging AMD did something it did not do.

When it comes to B450 motherboards. Did people really expect chipset from March 2017 to support CPU that is to come out somewhere around September 2020? B350 and B450 are exactly same chipsets so B450 is 2017 stuff. There is very good reason why other than 500 series support is dropped from Zen3 (if that really happens): PCI Express 4.0. On Zen2 AMD allowed "hybrid" solution where some Zen2 platforms support PCIE 4.0 and some did not. With Zen3 AMD wants that all Zen3 platforms have PCIe 4.0 support at least for 16 lanes.

Lmao you’re so wrong. I am absolutely allowed to call AMD deceptive because they definitely have been. You are just making excuses for them, it’s pathetic. They absolutely did deceive users when they announced socket support until 2020, many of the articles written about the statement elaborated in exactly this and not one of those articles were called out by AMD sympathisers like yourself. Of course the reddit forums are currently filling up with angry consumers who expected to be able to put a 4xxx chip in their B450 or X470 board. Maybe you should go and tell them they are all stupid?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ggcq2m

 

[HardReset]

Lmao you’re so wrong. I am absolutely allowed to call AMD deceptive because they definitely have been. You are just making excuses for them, it’s pathetic. They absolutely did deceive users when they announced socket support until 2020, many of the articles written about the statement elaborated in exactly this and not one of those articles were called out by AMD sympathisers like yourself.

Where? x570 chipset, from 2019, should still support Zen3. Additionally Zen3 will likely use AM4 socket so basically AMD has fullfilled what it promised. Another thing is that some people think "AM4 supported until 2020 = all AM4 motherboards ever made will support all AM4 CPU's until 2020".

In reality. Do ALL AM4 boards support Zen2? Or even Zen+? No. If someone cannot understand AMD just cannot guarantee any motherboard compatibility because AMD does not make motherboards, that's their problem.

So how about giving AMD's statement where they clearly say Zen3 (or whatever that 2020 Zen3 will be) would fit on virtually all AM4 motherboards? Internet is full of articles where someone understood something wrong.

Of course the reddit forums are currently filling up with angry consumers who expected to be able to put a 4xxx chip in their B450 or X470 board. Maybe you should go and tell them they are all stupid?

https://www.reddit.com/r/Amd/comments/ggcq2m

They are stupid yes. Let's see possible choices:

1. Purchase CPU and motherboard with modern 2019 chipset and expect it to support 2020 CPU.

2. Purchase CPU and motherboard with outdated 2017 chipset and expect it to support 2020 CPU.

Of course, anyone chose option 2 is blaming someone else for own stupidity

Edit: And yes, there is much better reason Intel had for this: guaranteed support for PCI Express 4.0 for at least 16 lanes (for GPU). That is something other than 3xx or 4xx boards cannot support.

I also remember what kind of shitstorm Zen2 support for older boards caused. Of course it's AMD's fault if Zen2 compatible BIOS is not immediately available for 2 year old board

 

[Shadowboxer]

The AMD subreddit is bubbling with hate about AMDs deception. I’ve never seen it like this before!

I guess a lot of people were expecting to put a 4xxx chip in a B450 board. Especially as the mobo manufacturers websites have been advertising that all future AM4 CPUs are supported. To be honest, people on B350 and X370 boards have the right to be a bit miffed too. And those users are more likely to want to upgrade.

Reddit - Dive into anything

www.reddit.com

 

[Invictus Red]

To be fair, they have so far supported four processes from 25nm to 7nm and two completely different CPU architectures (Bristol Ridge and Ryzen) on the same socket and boards. Don‘t think we’ve ever seen this before.

That said, I would still be disappointed if my B450 Max board did not support Ryzen 3.

I really think AMD need to clarify asap if they just do not guarantee Ryzen 3 support on older boards or if they will actually prohibit board manufacturers from supporting it.

I mean, worst case scenario you throw a used R9 3950x in your rig and ignore CPU news for 5 years as you'll have plenty of headroom to do most anything.

 

[Invictus Red]

I'm not seeing inconsistency either. This is how it was with AM3 sockets as well and AMD have always signalled well in advance what there plans are. The mobo makers are adding additional support for some older mobos but that's never gauranteed and even then you need to think about things like power delivery. My strix-f x370 has a good VRM and officially can support a 3950x (according to Asus) but still I don't think I would try and run a 3950x on it.

You probably could but just at stock. MAYBE enabling DOCP and PBO but aside from that, NO overclocking. Regardless, I'm sure you're drying your tears with all the money you're saving.

 

[Irata]

I mean, worst case scenario you throw a used R9 3950x in your rig and ignore CPU news for 5 years as you'll have plenty of headroom to do most anything.

Yeah, that or the 3900x is what I would go for, but prices may be higher (don‘t really want to buy used).

Still, as I specifically bought a Max board with the larger Bios chip, it sucks somewhat. I am hoping that AMD will make an exception for MSI‘s Max boards to protect them from lawsuits as MSI specifically marketed that line as being future proof on AM4.

They could without contradicting their original statement since they specifically mentioned the Bios chip size being the problem and imho there are not too many pre 5xx boards with the larger chips.