AMD Radeon RX 8800 XT could go head-to-head with RTX 4080 in raster and ray tracing performance

[Theinsanegamer]

That really sucks. They basically made zero progress on anything other than ray tracing which I personally don't even care about. And Nvidia is free do anything they want with prices because they have no competition in the above average cards.

I doubt the RT part too. rDNA3 was supposed to be a significant improvement in RT, would up core for core that rDNA3 was within margin of error with rDNA2. Almost all their "improvement" was clock speed and MOAR COARS.

I have no reason to believe rDNA4 will be any different.

 

[poohbear]

Oh boy here we go.

CHOO CHOO all abord the AMD Hype train... again.

It derailed even before leaving the station thanks to AMD ceding the high end this generation and people are still jumping onboard.

Hype in what? They've been handily trouncing Intel and Intel is in dire straits these days. lol why would you doubt AMD at this point?

If anything we can start doubting Nvidia since its gaming business has become a very small portion of its overall revenue ($2 billion for gaming vs 26 billion for data centers/AI last quarter). Have you been to Nvidia's website main page lately? There is little mention of gaming. It's all about AI and data centers.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Hype in what? They've been handily trouncing Intel and Intel is in dire straits these days. lol why would you doubt AMD at this point?

If anything we can start doubting Nvidia since its gaming business has become a very small portion of its overall revenue ($2 billion for gaming vs 26 billion for data centers/AI last quarter). Have you been to Nvidia's website main page lately? There is little mention of gaming. It's all about AI and data centers.

- The idea that a ~4096 SP RDNA 4 part is going to compete with the 4864 (dual pumped to 9728) Ada part on essentially the exact same process is hype.

The idea that AMD is going to pull a magic RT bunny out of the hat is hype.

RDNA 3 was supposed to be this monster and the 7900XTX was supposed to crush the 4090 and AMD had improved its RT and the N31 was 530mm2 of silicon and AMD WAS BACK BABY GET READY FOR IT and damp squib.

The 7900 XTX with all its fancy stuff was neck and neck with Nvidia's 379mm2 AD104 die and still far behind in RT.

AMD is absolutely firing on all cylinders when it comes to their CPUs. Their GPUs however... every time the fans expect a rabbit out of the hat. Every time (except RDNA2 which was a real surprise) they're disappointed.

 

[Theinsanegamer]

Hype in what? They've been handily trouncing Intel and Intel is in dire straits these days. lol why would you doubt AMD at this point?

If anything we can start doubting Nvidia since its gaming business has become a very small portion of its overall revenue ($2 billion for gaming vs 26 billion for data centers/AI last quarter). Have you been to Nvidia's website main page lately? There is little mention of gaming. It's all about AI and data centers.

Nvidia's not going to throw away $8 billion a year from the geforce lineup into the furnace. That would be A) incredibly stupid and B) geforce is their lifeline if AI goes belly up, and they know it. The reason people do not doubt nvidia is because they have consistently put out full generations of hardware with improvements every generation, even if those improvements are small, they are there.

Compare this with AMD, who sometimes cannot move the needle forward at all, other times it just doesnt release anything on the high end, or lets the mid range lag for 6 months after launch before releasing a product. (december 2022 for 7900xtx, september 2023 for 7800xt anyone?) Other times you get a Vega, where the lineup is a straight stinker. Then, once in a while, you get a semi competent lineup like the RX 6000s and get reminded what actual competition looks like.

consumers like consistency, somehow this continues to elude AMD and their fans who blame everything on "mindshare", because blaming nebulous evil things is easier than admitting your company has been screwing up for years and has totally destroyed consumer trust in the brand. AMD figured this out with their CPUs, but their GPUs continue to elude them. It's like AMD shoved all their old management under the GPU branch.

 

[Ohnooze]

I really thought AMD was was getting back in the game until this new lineup. Now they aren't really even trying to compete.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Nvidia's not going to throw away $8 billion a year from the geforce lineup into the furnace. That would be A) incredibly stupid and B) geforce is their lifeline if AI goes belly up, and they know it. The reason people do not doubt nvidia is because they have consistently put out full generations of hardware with improvements every generation, even if those improvements are small, they are there.

Compare this with AMD, who sometimes cannot move the needle forward at all, other times it just doesnt release anything on the high end, or lets the mid range lag for 6 months after launch before releasing a product. (december 2022 for 7900xtx, september 2023 for 7800xt anyone?) Other times you get a Vega, where the lineup is a straight stinker. Then, once in a while, you get a semi competent lineup like the RX 6000s and get reminded what actual competition looks like.

consumers like consistency, somehow this continues to elude AMD and their fans who blame everything on "mindshare", because blaming nebulous evil things is easier than admitting your company has been screwing up for years and has totally destroyed consumer trust in the brand. AMD figured this out with their CPUs, but their GPUs continue to elude them. It's like AMD shoved all their old management under the GPU branch.

- 100%. Nvidia executes with surgical precision. AMD can't help but trip over its own shoelaces with nearly every launch.

It's a corporate culture problem at AMD. They're a CPU company and almost immediately after buying ATi it felt like they were the dog that caught the car: ok they have all these awesome resources at their disposal... what to do with them? Remember hetrogenous compute? How APUs were supposed to meld the FPU arrays of GPUs with the Int Crunching power of CPUs to create these uber processing cores? No? Yeah AMD doesn't seem to remember or have much of a grand vision either.

GPUs have always been sort of a disrespected plaything in AMD's suite. 2900XT tripped out the gate and AMD has such an aggressively underdog attitude about everything that the immediately went with the small die strategy while NV was pumping out huge, hot, power hungry GPUs saddled with CUDA and compute. AMD didn't go for the kill, they went with small dies that happily came in 2nd place.

290x sabotaged its own launch with it's craptastic stock cooler that ended up being a meme even through the underlying card was amazing.

We all remember the Khoduri years. The Vega and Polaris hype.

It's going to take another 15 years of perfect execution for AMD to even break even with the last 15 years of sloppy execution and broken promises. Honestly, everyone thought AMD turned a corner with RDNA2. Part of the reason RDNA3 got so hyped is because everyone thought AMD finally got their **** together. Then RDNA3 staggered, didn't meet the lofty expectations, but it didn't completely fall.

That is what RDNA 4 appears to be for.

Nvidia on the other hand always believed their GPUs were every bit as good as Intel's and better. They latched on to the GPU as a compute monster early and have been hammering away at that market like a machine. CUDA is basically the default. Nvidia is the default if you're doing any kind of MatLab/science/engineering/professional/etc work. The entire AI market was basically created out of thin air by Nvidia. These guys have a plan, they have a strategy, they have their tactics, and they are executing like a well oiled machine and that's made them the richest company on earth.

 

[Cocojambo13]

Oh boy here we go.

CHOO CHOO all abord the AMD Hype train... again.

It derailed even before leaving the station thanks to AMD ceding the high end this generation and people are still jumping onboard.

HIGH END? high end my ARSE! you mean pay 1000+eurodollars and a kidney to get the top card, which no NORMAL, average gamer will ever do that.

AMD should lower prices next generation if they focus mainly on mainstream gamers and you will see ppl will flock back from ngreedia.

 

[CMP01]

Oh boy here we go.

CHOO CHOO all abord the AMD Hype train... again.

It derailed even before leaving the station thanks to AMD ceding the high end this generation and people are still jumping onboard.

Yes, because everybody should have a 4090, even if not even using 4K, and if they don't they must be a poor haha.

Nice contradiction btw. By saying they're ceding the high end implies that's where they've been (and rightly so) so explain the hype train part (actually Nvidia's thing) and why you think AMD might have decided on such a move.
Bet you can't without meme-ing it up.

 

[poshflamingos]

This is the same faulty mindset AMD has been using for years.

This is neither faulty, nor a "mindset". What I wrote is just a factual description of reality.

A reminder, back when the 1080ti was a $700 card, the $350 1070 outsold the ENTIRETY of polaris, back when the line was "GPUs $200 and under actually matter".

This has nothing to do with brands. This isn't about why Nvidia outsells AMD, this is about how high-end is a minuscule segment and is completely dwarfed by mid-range products. You don't need to look at AMD at all to see this, we can see it by looking only at Nvidia, and the little fact you conveniently chose to ignore: the GTX 1060 alone outsold every other Pascal GPU above it added together. The GTX 1060 was the most popular Pascal card by a wide margin, the RTX 2060 was the most popular Turing card by a wide margin, the RTX 3060 was the most popular Ampere card by a wide margin, and the RTX 4060 is the most popular Ada Lovelace card by a wide margin.

You can see the same thing about AMD's products alone as well. All of the AMD cards that have been popular (relative to AMD's own products) over the years were mid-range cards. HD 4850/4870, R9 290/390, RX 470/480/570/580, RX 6600, RX 6700 XT, all of them were in the sub-$400 mid-range segment, no exceptions. High-end cards never moved the needle for them.

Back in the Pascal days, people were absolutely right in saying that it's the cheap GPUs that matter. That's why the 1060 obliterated every other Nvidia product, and why x60 tier Nvidia cards continue to do so to this day. Which is why it's fine for Intel and AMD to not bother with the high-end market. High-end is a tiny, insignificant portion of the market. If they ever want a chance at being successful on the GPU market, what they need good mid-range products, because that's what the vast overwhelming majority of people buy.

 

[scavengerspc]

Well, nothing screams success like proclaiming your brand new generation tech will match the performance of the competition's previous generation. Stand......... Proud? I guess.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

HIGH END? high end my ARSE! you mean pay 1000+eurodollars and a kidney to get the top card, which no NORMAL, average gamer will ever do that.

AMD should lower prices next generation if they focus mainly on mainstream gamers and you will see ppl will flock back from ngreedia.

- Problem with this logic is that Nvidia is still going to sell you a $500 that competes with the 8800XT (probably the 5070 or 5070Ti) and then still sell people that want them the $2000+ 5090.

Halo parts make it easier to compete on price in lower segments, Nvidia has always done this when AMD does the whole "marketshare" schtick.

 

[GodisanAtheist]

Yes, because everybody should have a 4090, even if not even using 4K, and if they don't they must be a poor haha.

Nice contradiction btw. By saying they're ceding the high end implies that's where they've been (and rightly so) so explain the hype train part (actually Nvidia's thing) and why you think AMD might have decided on such a move.
Bet you can't without meme-ing it up.

- I honestly cannot make heads or tails of what you're asking me to do here. I'll try.

By saying they're ceding the high end implies that's where they've been (and rightly so)
- Yes, the 6900Xt and 7900XTX were both high end parts. I use a 6800XT as my main graphics card.

so explain the hype train part (actually Nvidia's thing)
- Everytime AMD releases a new generation, the rumor mill goes wild that this is the time they're going to absolutely nuke Nvidia. 7900XTX was going to be this ADA102 destroying part. Ironically everyone thought the 6900XT would compete with the 3070 and were pleasantly surprised. RDNA was... RDNA. Vega/Polaris were hyped up by Khoduri himself. FURY X was supposed to be this compute monster that imploded vs Maxwell. The 290X/Hawaii part was actually a really good part but AMD meme'd themselves with that garbage stock cooler... and on and on and on.

Now people are acting like the 8800XT is going to be a 4080 for $500. Get real people. It's going to be at best a 7900XT that loses only 30% performance when turning on RT instead of whatever 50% RDNA3 loses and the 70% RDNA2 loses.

and why you think AMD might have decided on such a move.

- Because AMD is making way more money selling $50,000 MI350's than their consumer grade stuff and they're better off allocating their dies to that end.

 

[Felusy]

5070 will likely be $1200 as NVIDIA gets greedy.

With only 6400 cores, absolutely not. 499-599 dollars tops.
5070 Ti is going to be vastly faster than 5070. Expect 799-899 dollars here.

I only see AMD competing with 5070 base model.

 

[n3o127]

Can only image the comments if nVidia's next gen cards was only as fast as their 2nd or 3rd (5070) but offered better RT. Wonder if the green fan boys would be saying how great it will be having no top end card(s) and much better business plan. When thinking how few 4090's sell, remember that steam report where the 4090 numbers are more than any (all) of amd's cards, bet that's a nothing sales number the Radeon group would actually love to have.

AMD, like Intel just did, release the low end and lower to mid-range middle end cards and do so at price points that consumers will buy them, problem will be still, nVidia as the next gen cards are going to faster cards making it pretty easy for them to make sales if they so choose in those markets just as they do now.

5070 Ti would not be a surprise to land in the 4080 super price area with the 5070 being cheaper of course based upon specs would make the 5070 the most likely card nVidia puts up against the RX 8800 XT which it will be great of the 8800 can hold its own or even top the 5070 sometimes. Perhaps if Intel gives and releases the B770 Battlemage the 5070 will have a second card to help drive its cost down on a little as well.

 

[PaladinNH]

You been hitting the eggnog already. Good luck with that. Do you also believe magically, 5080 will match 4090 while only costing $1K?

Right. I mean it's all speculation at this point but I think we'll see 8800XT @$600, 5070 @$800 and 5080 @$1200. And I don't see the 5080 having 4090 performance based on its specs, which will keep the 4090 safely above that tier.

If it's outperforming the 7900XT in performance and efficiency, AMD will not (and should not) drop this to $500. They only did this with the 7800XT because it was equal to the 6800XT in performance (better in power).

I'd like to have a chance to get one and that won't happen if it comes out at $500.

 

[HardReset]

Nvidia on the other hand always believed their GPUs were every bit as good as Intel's and better. They latched on to the GPU as a compute monster early and have been hammering away at that market like a machine. CUDA is basically the default. Nvidia is the default if you're doing any kind of MatLab/science/engineering/professional/etc work. The entire AI market was basically created out of thin air by Nvidia. These guys have a plan, they have a strategy, they have their tactics, and they are executing like a well oiled machine and that's made them the richest company on earth.

Disagreed. During first crypto boom, AMD cards were much faster than Nvidias. So much about "Nvidia compute monster".

AI market is exactly same as crypto. Nvidia didn't do "superior AI cards", it just happened that Nvidia cards were more suitable for AI than AMDs when boom started. Just luck, nothing else. Remember, AI boom started just two years ago, and still AMD has launched multiple AI products. If AMD just started planning them when AI boom started, they still wouldn't have single one out.

 

[n3o127]

Right. I mean it's all speculation at this point but I think we'll see 8800XT @$600, 5070 @$800 and 5080 @$1200. And I don't see the 5080 having 4090 performance based on its specs, which will keep the 4090 safely above that tier.

If it's outperforming the 7900XT in performance and efficiency, AMD will not (and should not) drop this to $500. They only did this with the 7800XT because it was equal to the 6800XT in performance (better in power).

I'd like to have a chance to get one and that won't happen if it comes out at $500.

Be interesting if pricing lands as you have noted, and it may for sure or at least be close to that -- the 4080 topped the 3090 as also the 3080 topped the 2080 (even the Ti) -- The 4080 Super is already close (in many, not all of course) gaming benchmarks nVidia is not going to go backwards by making the 5080 slower or same performance as the 4080 Super, as the norm the 5080 will match or exceed the past gen 4090 along with bringing new features as also is the norm for nVidia with new gens. The 5080 and 5090 even with no matches is going to be fast and a solid gen jump up from current gen.