Apple engineers may quit if forced by FBI to unlock iPhones

[Rippleman]

`

Seriously, what is wrong with you? Have you not read a single article (including the one you are commenting on) about this particular case?
He's not claiming violating a single persons (in this case a terrorist) privacy would put everyone else at risk.

The entire debate is over the fact the FBI want a back door to all iOS devices, they don't want Apple to just unlock this single phone. Why would they? They have the technical ability to do that already. They want it to be much easier to access everyone's iOS devices, this means creating a back door on all iOS devices which anyone could exploit.It also sets a legal precedence so the government can ask for the same of Google, Microsoft etc...

If you truly do not understand that, I don't know what else to say...

I could say the very same thing you are: Seriously, what is wrong with you? Have you not read a single article (including the one you are commenting on) about this particular case?

1) You are incorrect, they can not do this currently.
2)This is about a single persons phone. NO, not "everybody" could exploit it.
3)) If you are equating the privacy scenario between killer and you, then let me ask you this. Since you are against the killers phone being searched, what about the house? If you could stop them searching the killers house to prevent possible search of your house (if the situation warranted it) would you say NO to them search the killers house? mail? travel? etc etc?

Like I said the others, you are a nobody. It may hurt your feelings of self importance but nobody but you cares about your family videos, your day-trip planed with your mistress on Tuesday, or the underage teen photos you have you are phone. You simply are not important enough to worry about even if you feel that you are. However, if you kill some people, your status will be elevated and then your privacy could be worth something to you.

 

[lazer]

If Apple loses court battle and the engineers quit, then I belief the company is behind all of this stupidity and should be punished severely.

This is a one time case of Islamic terrorists who have attacked and killed innocent people and the FBI needs to know with whom they spoke, who were their contacts before the contacts get away and form other terror cells.

To me, this is Apple trying to look righteous while abandoning the innocent American who will get killed by the next terror attack with Apples help.

 

[Darth Shiv]

To me, this is Apple trying to look righteous while abandoning the innocent American who will get killed by the next terror attack with Apples help.

If Apple is forced, the market will go to someone who is not subject to FBI/NSA compromise. The US Govt remember does not have jurisdiction everywhere.

John Oliver did some interesting research in this area. There are in the order of 900 chat encryption apps available at the moment for presumably Android and iPhone. I could write one or use open source code and change it to make others easily. Of those almost 900 apps, 2/3rds are NOT based in the US. The encryption war the FBI, CIA, NSA are pursuing is only going to compromise US offerings which will mean consumers, innocent and guilty will obviously go elsewhere. The majority of innocent people do not want to touch compromised applications.

 

[Rippleman]

The majority of innocent people do not want to touch compromised applications.

You are incorrect on 2 levels.
1) Most innocent people don't care if criminals are investigated in every area of their life.
2) It's not a compromised application. Is your mail comprised if authorities are investigating the letter mail of a terrorist? What about a house, is your house compromised if authorities are investigating the house of a terrorist? What about your travel history? Is your travel history compromised if authorities investigate the travel history of a terrorist?

Quit spreading fear. Let me guess.. the government is trying to take your guns too?

 

[commanderasus]

Let's go back in time - back in time to Windows 95 -98 days. Remember the NSA key code that people found?

A careless mistake by Microsoft programmers has revealed that special access codes prepared by the US National Security Agency have been secretly built into Windows. The NSA access system is built into every version of the Windows operating system now in use, except early releases of Windows 95 (and its predecessors). The discovery comes close on the heels of the revelations earlier this year that another US software giant, Lotus, had built an NSA “help information” trapdoor into its Notes system, and that security functions on other software systems had been deliberately crippled.
more here:
http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2013/06/microsoft-programmed-in-nsa-backdoor-in-windows-by-1999.html

Remember that Bill Gates used to be part of Apple.

 

[cliffordcooley]

Let me guess.. the government is trying to take your guns too?

If we thought the way you do they would.

 

[Rippleman]

If we thought the way you do they would.

You have missed the point yet again.

 

[Burty117]

`


I could say the very same thing you are: Seriously, what is wrong with you? Have you not read a single article (including the one you are commenting on) about this particular case?

1) You are incorrect, they can not do this currently.
2)This is about a single persons phone. NO, not "everybody" could exploit it.
3)) If you are equating the privacy scenario between killer and you, then let me ask you this. Since you are against the killers phone being searched, what about the house? If you could stop them searching the killers house to prevent possible search of your house (if the situation warranted it) would you say NO to them search the killers house? mail? travel? etc etc?

Like I said the others, you are a nobody. It may hurt your feelings of self importance but nobody but you cares about your family videos, your day-trip planed with your mistress on Tuesday, or the underage teen photos you have you are phone. You simply are not important enough to worry about even if you feel that you are. However, if you kill some people, your status will be elevated and then your privacy could be worth something to you.

I'm sorry dude, you may love the idea of no privacy at all, but some of us quite like some privacy.

What I don't get from you're argument is, lets just say you're right, I'm a nobody that has never done anything wrong, why the hell am I being punished by having my phone tapped? I'm a nobody that has nothing important to say and nobody cares about me, Why does that give anyone the right to have a back door into my phone?

Since you're not giving up this little pipe dream of your's I shall leave it as it is.

 

[Rippleman]

I'm sorry dude, you may love the idea of no privacy at all, but some of us quite like some privacy.

What I don't get from you're argument is, lets just say you're right, I'm a nobody that has never done anything wrong, why the hell am I being punished by having my phone tapped? I'm a nobody that has nothing important to say and nobody cares about me, Why does that give anyone the right to have a back door into my phone?

Since you're not giving up this little pipe dream of your's I shall leave it as it is.

No one has the right to tap you without cause. No one has the right to go into your house withoutcause. No one has the right to go through your mail without cause. As soon as VALID cause has been proven, CERTAIN authorities/agencies have that right to view things within the boundaries of law.

The argument isn't about YOUR privacy. The argument isn't about YOU being tapped. The argument IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

Question: How did the search of the terrorists house affect YOUR house and YOUR rights?

Question: How did the search of the terrorists travel history affect YOUR travel history and YOUR rights?

Question: How did the ANY SEARCH of the terrorists life affect YOUR life and YOUR rights?

Oh right... it didn't. Just the same as a search of their phone won't affect YOUR life either.

 

[Burty117]

No one has the right to tap you without cause. No one has the right to go into your house withoutcause. No one has the right to go through your mail without cause. As soon as VALID cause has been proven, CERTAIN authorities/agencies have that right to view things within the boundaries of law.

The argument isn't about YOUR privacy. The argument isn't about YOU being tapped. The argument IS NOT ABOUT YOU.

Question: How did the search of the terrorists house affect YOUR house and YOUR rights?

Question: How did the search of the terrorists travel history affect YOUR travel history and YOUR rights?

Question: How did the ANY SEARCH of the terrorists life affect YOUR life and YOUR rights?

Oh right... it didn't. Just the same as a search of their phone won't affect YOUR life either.

I assume this is just pure trolling now. You're bringing irrelevant points up such as travel history and house searches but literally ignoring the fact that the FBI are asking Apple to create a back door into all iOS devices... Not one phone, all devices. You are also completely ignoring the legal precedence this sets for the FBI to ask the same of Google and Microsoft. In fact you're doing exactly what I said you were doing in several of my comments, you are completely ignoring the article all together.

*For Lol's. Google "ulterior motive" and in Googles "In The News" bit, loads of articles about this exact case come up.

 

[Zenairis]

Let me just put it to people this way. Giving a backdoor to iPhones means they can enable your phone and search anything any time they want, this includes your credit card information, enabling the camera + recording and even audio and anything else stored on the device.

Now let's say for whatever reason this OS, or even Apples code got leaked. What would happen if Black hat's got a hold of this? Also before you say it will never get leaked face it the government wasn't able to protect the files of a 1.5 trillion dollar program.

All I will tell you is that I am also myself a coder and if you knew all what can be done once a door is opened you'd soil your trousers.

If you don't think it's possible this just explains some of the basics of what can be done.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bjYhmX_OUQQ

 

[anguis]

When the backdoor is leaked or discovered (blackhat doesn't need a release,just a sign that it exists, and it will eventually be found) and suddenly all devices are susceptible. You think you aren't important enough to be a target? Then why are millions of PCs infected with malware? If you are online, you are target. Ripple clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Ignorant troll.

 

[Rippleman]

I assume this is just pure trolling now. You're bringing irrelevant points up such as travel history and house searches but literally ignoring the fact that the FBI are asking Apple to create a back door into all iOS devices... Not one phone, all devices. You are also completely ignoring the legal precedence this sets for the FBI to ask the same of Google and Microsoft. In fact you're doing exactly what I said you were doing in several of my comments, you are completely ignoring the article all together.

*For Lol's. Google "ulterior motive" and in Googles "In The News" bit, loads of articles about this exact case come up.

You are making the claim that if they do it to one, they will do it to all. MUCH like the mail... much like your house.... etc. Why do you stand for that but say no to a phone? What is the difference?

 

[Rippleman]

When the backdoor is leaked or discovered (blackhat doesn't need a release,just a sign that it exists, and it will eventually be found) and suddenly all devices are susceptible. You think you aren't important enough to be a target? Then why are millions of PCs infected with malware? If you are online, you are target. Ripple clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Ignorant troll.

Under this logic "as soon as one person knows where you live, everyone will just break in" Doesn't' work that way.

 

[Darth Shiv]

When the backdoor is leaked or discovered (blackhat doesn't need a release,just a sign that it exists, and it will eventually be found) and suddenly all devices are susceptible. You think you aren't important enough to be a target? Then why are millions of PCs infected with malware? If you are online, you are target. Ripple clearly has no idea what he's talking about. Ignorant troll.

++ SO MUCH THIS

Spot on about the malware. The malware authors don't care who you are but they sure do care about your money!

 

[Burty117]

You are making the claim that if they do it to one, they will do it to all. MUCH like the mail... much like your house.... etc. Why do you stand for that but say no to a phone? What is the difference?

YOU ARE NOT READING THE ARTICLE!

I'm not making a claim, I am stating a fact. The FBI want easier access to all iOS devices FACT.
The entire argument is that Apple cannot create a back door into a single, already locked phone.
They would have to modify iOS for all devices and weaken their security throughout the entire iOS platform to do what the FBI are asking.
Like I said, read the damn article and google this case.

Under this logic "as soon as one person knows where you live, everyone will just break in" Doesn't' work that way.

It's almost like you've only just discovered the internet or something? The moment this weakness is found (and with how big this story is, millions of people will be looking for this back door) the internet will be fired up and loads of people will have a go.

It's the Internet, everything travels fast here. Once again, it is NOTHING like breaking into someone's house and once again you've spewed total rubbish and compared an Apple to a Banana...

 

[Tosikko]

Under this logic "as soon as one person knows where you live, everyone will just break in" Doesn't' work that way.

In terms of cyber security, that is exactly the way it works. You keep repeating these same false arguments over and over again, and it kind of makes me feel like you don't understand why encryption is necessary in the first place.

Nobody in the tech community is trying to safeguard terrorists, this isn't even a national security question, it's just a security question. By impeding encryption you make it easier for everyone to access data.
Do you understand the value of personal information and data in general?

 

[Rippleman]

To last 3 posts, you are simply all incorrect, not in what you are worried about, but rather that the sky is not falling and it this whole thing is not what you are hyping it up to be. Do you see google worrying about this? This is all a marketing campaign from apple to hype you up in a false position similar to the ludicrous claim of "they are taking our guns" crap.

 

[Burty117]

To last 3 posts, you are simply all incorrect, not in what you are worried about, but rather that the sky is not falling and it this whole thing is not what you are hyping it up to be. Do you see google worrying about this? This is all a marketing campaign from apple to hype you up in a false position similar to the ludicrous claim of "they are taking our guns" crap.

Google AND Microsoft are worried about this, they are even backing up Apple in Court. In fact, you have fingers, Simply Google:

"Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter to Back Apple With Legal Filing in FBI Case"

And you can read some more articles on how wrong you are.

Also, how on earth is the "they are taking our guns" anything like a marketing campaign?! And how on earth is this one giant marketing campaign?! In your world, do marketing campaign's regularly get sued by the FBI?

 

[Darth Shiv]

Under this logic "as soon as one person knows where you live, everyone will just break in" Doesn't' work that way.

Actually that is exactly the way encryption works.

If there was a way to give one party access to a single user's info without breaking all user encryption, we wouldn't be debating this. But there's not. And if you don't understand that, you don't know how encryption works.

 

[Rippleman]

Actually that is exactly the way encryption works.

If there was a way to give one party access to a single user's info without breaking all user encryption, we wouldn't be debating this. But there's not. And if you don't understand that, you don't know how encryption works.

I am 100% sure that you are now understand what I am saying.

 

[Rippleman]

Google AND Microsoft are worried about this, they are even backing up Apple in Court. In fact, you have fingers, Simply Google:

"Google, Microsoft, Facebook, Twitter to Back Apple With Legal Filing in FBI Case"

And you can read some more articles on how wrong you are.

Also, how on earth is the "they are taking our guns" anything like a marketing campaign?! And how on earth is this one giant marketing campaign?! In your world, do marketing campaign's regularly get sued by the FBI?

They are backing up the idea of a NO-BACK DOOR policy yes and rightfully so. However the way you are viewing this "back door" is NOT a backdoor like you think. Not debating this anymore, it is clear that we simply are on different sides of view points and definitions of what this actually is. To the masses who worry about feds finding their teen porn collection, it is based on "where are my rights". To he masses who worry about keeping people safer, its based on "lets protect the most rights we can while still doing our job".

 

[RobStow]

So, you are against seeing whats in these killers phones.. Ok. What about their house? Their mail? What about their travel history?

If I also have to compromise every mobile device on the planet so that any chinese, russian, you name it hacker can access my bank accounts, my email, my life to do so, then YES I am against unlocking the phone and so should you.

You are over valuating yourself. You are a nobody. No one cares about your crappy life, your family videos, or your photos of underage teens. You would not be looked at even if you tried. This goes for 99.999% of people. You all have to get over yourselves. However, go kill people, then you can know that your encryption was worth it.

You are sadly mistaken if you think it is necessary for hackers to care about you before they ruin your life. They'll just automate the process and let it roam at will, harvesting whatever it can find - they cold ruin your life without even noticing you. To them you'd just be one of the faceless millions that their bots have robbed or had all of their private data made public.

 

[Tosikko]

To last 3 posts, you are simply all incorrect, not in what you are worried about, but rather that the sky is not falling and it this whole thing is not what you are hyping it up to be. Do you see google worrying about this? This is all a marketing campaign from apple to hype you up in a false position similar to the ludicrous claim of "they are taking our guns" crap.

The fact you keep dismissing arguments as false without addressing them first is kind of hilarious, but I'll go along with that for a while.

Nobody is hyping this. You simply don't understand that impeded encryption is meaningless. This isn't a marketing campaign from Apple either, as the topic is actually about setting a dangerous precedent about how encryption fundamentally works. Google is backing Apple on this. Guns have nothing to do with this.

Do you not understand why encryption exists in the first place?

 

[Rippleman]

The fact you keep dismissing arguments as false without addressing them first is kind of hilarious, but I'll go along with that for a while.

Nobody is hyping this. You simply don't understand that impeded encryption is meaningless. This isn't a marketing campaign from Apple either, as the topic is actually about setting a dangerous precedent about how encryption fundamentally works. Google is backing Apple on this. Guns have nothing to do with this.

Do you not understand why encryption exists in the first place?

Like a few of the others, this has nothing to do with YOUR phone. You can cry about it as much as you want, scream as loud as you can, throw a tantrum to gain as much attention as you can possible get, but in the end, it has nothing to do with YOUR phone (unless there is reason for it to be). Same goes for house searches, mail search, travel history search etc etc etc. This "backdoor" you all fear isn't what you think it is.